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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

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  • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

    Originally posted by Sookie View Post
    It really depends on whether Lance's shooting keeps up. If it doesn't, Danny (on paper) helps the starters more.

    And, I always feel that a quality playmaker (who can get his own shot) is better than someone who relies on people getting him a shot, to come off the bench.

    I understand the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. And I especially get it with the uncertainty with Danny. But it could work out better, and it seems like all involved want that situation to play out. (Danny as starter, Lance as sixth man.) Obviously "on paper" doesn't always translate, but it's worth looking at.

    What's the worst thing that can happen? It doesn't work out, and after a few games of trying it, they switch it back? This team has good chemistry. And they're too talented to get too far off track. Plus, this is assuming Danny is healthy shortly. If he's not really contributing until March, obviously it's better to have Lance starting.
    I don't think that Danny on paper helps the starters more. We don't need another scorer to start. We need a scorer on the second unit. We need another playmaker to hide Hill's inability to get assists. We have 3 starting scorers without Danny or Lance. People have stated that Harden came off the bench and was better than Sephalosa who started but Harden is more like Danny than he is like Lance

    Comment


    • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

      Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
      Why don't we delay this discussion until Danny returns, plays off the bench and proves he's healthy and more capable than Lance. When that happens, let him be Paul's Robin or whatever you want.
      I agree that Danny needs to play off the bench until he's healthy and ready to play quality minutes. I originally actually preferred starting Orlando or Solo and bringing Lance off the bench, but Lance has played so well that I'd prefer he continues to play the rotation he's been in so far until Granger's back. But I don't think he has to prove he's more capable than Lance to be a better fit, I think he just has to prove that he's capable of playing at a starter's level.
      Time for a new sig.

      Comment


      • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
        If you've played competitive sports and want to maintain good chemistry, you have a group of guys who normally close. The alternative leads to finger pointing. Are there exceptions to that rule? Certainly and it varies by the team. But there is always a rule.
        Both Danny and Lance will be getting plenty of run with the starters that chemistry will not be a problem.

        Regardless of who starts and who comes off the bench, both will see similar minutes and will play with both the first and second unit. Even with Granger out, Vogel has Lance as the first starter out. Thats because he wants Lance to run with the second unit and to have the keys to the offense.

        Comment


        • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

          Originally posted by speakout4 View Post
          Danny would be fine with the second unit adding some scoring punch. I'm not understanding what's wrong with that. Danny may not work out with the starting unit even if he is 100%.
          During the pre-season did you see Danny playing fine with the second unit? I certainly didn't. On the other hand, he looked great when he played with the starters. Then again it was a small sample size and it was pre-season as well. So, we will. There is a big possibility that this whole discussion becomes moot.

          Originally posted by speakout4 View Post
          Does the starting unit need more scoring or does it need a facilitator?
          I'd say that the starting unit needed more spacing last year. Not scoring in general but spacing in particular. We need to have good shooters out there with the starting line-up in order to make teams think twice before doubling our bigs. That's why Hill is so important as a starter for us.

          If you asked me before the season I'd say that Danny provides better spacing because this is what the numbers indicate. However, Lance is shooting so well at the moment that he is making that point moot. Right now he seems like an awesome fit in both units and I'm extremely glad about that.

          Let's ask this same question about the bench though. What does the bench needs? More scoring or a facilitator? Well, let's see what our bench players can do offensively:

          Watson: Very good 3 point shooter. Mostly a spot up player that plays off the ball. Not a facilitator.

          Orlando Johnson: Good scorer. Nice 3 point shot, strong on drives. He can play on the post a bit and create scoring opportunities for himself. He is not a facilitator, though.

          Luis Scola: Killer mid-range jumper out of the Pick and Pop. Crafty player in the low post with an array of post moves. Good passer that can facilitate out of the high post. He can create for himself and facilitate a bit for others but you cannot base your playmaking on him.

          Ian Mahinmi: Put backs and finishing on some PnRs.

          I'd say that this bench needs a facilitator. They have some good scoring in Scola, OJ and CJ but they don't have the player that can create for everyone else.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment


          • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
            That we lose a lot of games?
            Yeah, every game is super crucial if we want to have home court in the playoffs, which I think we need to eliminate Miami. We can't afford to throw a wrench in a starting lineup that is clearly working. That could cost us a couple of games, which could make all the difference in the world in seeding.

            If people are still calling for Lance to come off of the bench after playing so phenomenally well, then it really starts to seem like the main reason for that is that they simply want to see Granger start at all costs. The whole "Lance needs to come off of the bench so that he has the ball in his hands" thing doesn't really fly when he is starting and controlling the ball plenty in his current role. And you can't say that he's getting in the way of PG since PG is off to a ridiculously great start.

            Comment


            • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
              If Lin was as good as Lance he would be starting, Lin is on the bench because he is just not that good.
              Lin is a quite good player but Harden and Howard are better than him and there is only one basketball. Beverley is a much better fit alongside Harden and Howard simply because he doesn't need the ball in his hands. On the other hand, Lin is better with the bench because unlike Beverley he can run an offense.

              Once again you're putting too much emphasis into "starting" and you completely disregard fit.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                Not calling you a lier but I know where are you going with this conversation, we get it you want to start DG and bench Lance.
                The only person that wants to bench someone in this conversation is you. You would be overjoyed if Danny was never able to play a game again because it would allow you to say "I told you so".
                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                  Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                  During the pre-season did you see Danny playing fine with the second unit? I certainly didn't. On the other hand, he looked great when he played with the starters. .
                  I don't think Danny has been impressive yet at all since he has returned. He has looked slow but the team as a whole didn't look particularly good.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                    If you've played competitive sports and want to maintain good chemistry, you have a group of guys who normally close. The alternative leads to finger pointing. Are there exceptions to that rule? Certainly and it varies by the team. But there is always a rule.
                    Lance finishes by rule in this scenario but there are always exceptions.
                    Originally posted by IrishPacer
                    Empty vessels make the most noise.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                      Originally posted by speakout4 View Post
                      I don't think Danny has been impressive yet at all since he has returned. He has looked slow but the team as a whole didn't look particularly good.
                      Hey, great is a lesser scale than impressive. He looked great in that Chicago game in the second half along with the starters.
                      Originally posted by IrishPacer
                      Empty vessels make the most noise.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                        Why don't we delay this discussion until Danny returns, plays off the bench and proves he's healthy and more capable than Lance. When that happens, let him be Paul's Robin or whatever you want.
                        I want him to be a 5th option that will spread the floor and therefore give more room to Lance to be Paul's Robin.
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                          Originally posted by aamcguy View Post
                          I agree that Danny needs to play off the bench until he's healthy and ready to play quality minutes. I originally actually preferred starting Orlando or Solo and bringing Lance off the bench, but Lance has played so well that I'd prefer he continues to play the rotation he's been in so far until Granger's back. But I don't think he has to prove he's more capable than Lance to be a better fit, I think he just has to prove that he's capable of playing at a starter's level.
                          I agree with about half of this. Rather than point out difference, I have a question.

                          What happens if Danny plays, gets up to maybe 85%, then he builds up enough scar tissue (again) by March that he can't finish the season? All that time spent when Lance could be fine tuning his game with the starters?

                          Based on my readings, that tendon will never be the same physically. It has been operated on and scraped. There will always be scar tissue and I suspect it will be more susceptible to inflammation and building up more of it.

                          What a shame if that happens when we could have used Danny as a "plus" for the bench. Instead, he upsets the starting unit that will indeed close the vast majority of the time, particularly in the playoffs against Miami.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                            During the pre-season did you see Danny playing fine with the second unit? I certainly didn't. On the other hand, he looked great when he played with the starters. Then again it was a small sample size and it was pre-season as well. So, we will. There is a big possibility that this whole discussion becomes moot.

                            This isn't meant to sound cold, but our team isn't about what makes Granger looks best. He hasn't been a part of this team since the end of 11-12, and several guys' roles have changed since then while the team made it to Game 7 of the ECF's. It's looking like the Pacers will be at their best with the current starting lineup. Even if Granger looks better with the starters, it's still a bad move overall if the team itself isn't as strong. This team shouldn't revolve around doing what's easiest for Granger.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                              Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                              Hey, great is a lesser scale than impressive. He looked great in that Chicago game in the second half along with the starters.
                              N=1/2 pre-season game?

                              Lance has looked great in all 3 games this year and pretty damn good last season.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Four big IF's about Lance Stephenson.

                                Originally posted by speakout4 View Post
                                I don't think that Danny on paper helps the starters more. We don't need another scorer to start. We need a scorer on the second unit. We need another playmaker to hide Hill's inability to get assists. We have 3 starting scorers without Danny or Lance. People have stated that Harden came off the bench and was better than Sephalosa who started but Harden is more like Danny than he is like Lance
                                Harden is a lot more like Lance. Harden can both score and facilitate. Lance can score and facilitate as well. Danny is not good at facilitating.
                                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                                Comment

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