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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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The Origin of Life/Evolution?

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  • #46
    Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

    Originally posted by Hicks View Post
    I always found the explanation of the 'chemical soup' creating the first life on earth to be dubious. From what I recall reading, scientists have been trying for decades if not centuries to purposefully replicate that soup and failed. So why on earth would I decide that it happened on accident to begin with? Sounds like gap filling to me. Not that it couldn't be true, just that I think it currently requires a lot of faith, given what I just said about their purposeful attempts.
    Absolutely.

    If we get right down to it, nearly the entire argument for abiogenesis is a negative argument against competing ideas. "It must be A because it can't be Non-A."

    To make matters worse, their reasoning for why it can't be Non-A is based on dogmatism, not valid scientific or philosophical principles. Thus, it's not only a negative argument, it's a negative argument rooted in question begging. "It must be A because it can't be Non-A. It can't be Non-A because our dogma says it's A."

    See how that argument becomes circular? That's the current argument for abiogenesis in a nutshell. It's a slap to the face of science.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

      GrangeRusHibbert, why not answer the questions asked of you?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

        Originally posted by Hicks View Post
        By the way, GRH, I find a lot of what you're saying very interesting, but your choice of language (some of which I find condescending, snippy, or hyperbolic) makes you look like you're overcompensating for your point of view.
        Condescending and snippy, sure, but it's hard to not be condescending and snippy in this debate. Look no further than Thingfish's, KStat's, and kester's comments. I realize from experience that the condescension is inevitable, so yes, I'm probably a little bit overaggressive because of that fact.

        Hyperbole? Absolutely not. This entire debate surrounds the most important question of all-time, our very existence. It has implications that effect basically every walk of life, from worldview, to politics, to morality/behavior, etc. Beyond that, we have examples of people having their careers damaged due to asking uncomfortable questions regarding this subject, and people using intimidation and legal chicanery to force schools to indoctrinate children. It's nothing less than completely absurd. and I feel it should be called out as such.


        Originally posted by Hicks View Post
        And for God's sake, if you think someone doesn't understand what you're talking about, then prove you know what you're talking about by explaining it at a respectful, introductory level instead of telling someone what they 'don't grasp' or that it is 'over their head'. If you can't teach it on even that level, you probably don't know it as well as you think you do.
        Kester brought the snark to me. I merely replied in kind. To be totally honest with you, I'm okay with the snark, in fact, I kind of enjoy it. If others don't, then yeah, I'll try to use less of it, but it will be hard to do when I'm faced with comments like:

        Originally posted by Kstat View Post
        ...I keep waiting for the part where we get to the Flintstones theory where we co-existed and rode dinosaurs like horses.....
        Know what I mean?

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

          Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
          All I am hearing from this guy is condescending, arrogant BS with no explanation to his new theory.
          Patience. It will take me a while to type it out, so it will have to be when I have quite a lot of free time to really flesh it out.


          Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
          We get gems like "With all due respect, if you don't grasp what the arrival of the fittest refers to, than this debate may be a little bit over your head." and an incredible hatred for Darwin and classical evolution.


          I don't have a hatred for Darwin. I don't believe Darwin was evil. I believe Darwin was an ignorant product of an ignorant time, who formulated an ignorant idea that's unfortunately had a long-lasting negative impact on science and culture.

          I don't hate the man. I hate the man's idea, or, to be more precise, the resulting effects of that idea.


          Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
          There is no debate happening here. If you have an alternative theory to present then spit it out, until then your "debate" looks petty, biased and shows you have no information to bring to the table other than belittling other peoples comments and established theories. All you can do is be rude back at them. That's not how you win a debate, unless you are politician.
          Oddly, the way you've described me could adequately describe nearly every defender of Darwinian evolution I've encountered. I guess I've been around them so much that I've evolved their behavioral traits.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

            GRH, All you have to do is say, no I don't think the Flintstones theory of life on earth is correct to rebut Kstat. But, maybe you do?

            Just hurry up and say how the earth is 6,000 years old so I can quote the part where you said "I believe Darwin was an ignorant product of an ignorant time". and then we can discuss bronze age mythology compared to modern science.

            Anyway, this is all just me guessing at your ideas... because you won't tell us! However, going from what I found on www.arrivalofthefittest.com which you so arrogantly chided us for not understanding, I think I can see pretty clearly where you are coming from.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

              Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
              GRH, All you have to do is say, no I don't think the Flintstones theory of life on earth is correct to rebut Kstat. But, maybe you do?

              Just hurry up and say how the earth is 6,000 years old so I can quote the part where you said "I believe Darwin was an ignorant product of an ignorant time". and then we can discuss bronze age mythology compared to modern science.

              Anyway, this is all just me guessing at your ideas... because you won't tell us! However, going from what I found on www.arrivalofthefittest.com which you so arrogantly chided us for not understanding, I think I can see pretty clearly where you are coming from.
              I'd like to know what we're "indoctrinating children" in....and at the same time everyone in this thread already knows what the answer will be.

              Again, I improperly thought this would be a quality discussion about the origins of life on earth...but no, it seems even in 2013 we can't escape creationism. I swear to god there are still some people that still think the earth is the center of the universe, too.

              We're hearing how Darwin was obviously wrong, but we're not hearing about what theory is obviously correct. Why? Because religion is off-limits here, and he can't say what he wants to say without throwing science into the trashcan and moving on to religious doctrine. That tells you all you need to know about this.

              No creationist will ever address Dinosaurs. They just pretend they didn't hear the question, because it's quite literally impossible to square 230,000,000 year old 100-foot reptiles existing on a 6,000 year old planet alongside modern humans armed with only sticks and stones without fully embracing the crazy.

              Since this thread was obviously started as a passive-aggressive pro-creationism thread, I'm going to go ahead and address it myself, because I'm getting tired of us trying to see how many pages we can go back and forth insulting Darwinism without actually pointing out why we're doing it. If this thread gets locked, so be it, because religion was a pretty obvious influence in creating this thread from the start.

              Creationism stems from certain Christians' need to believe that "their" religion is the correct one, and if the history of the earth was correctly depicted in the bible, then they must be right, and everyone else must be wrong.
              Last edited by Kstat; 04-29-2013, 01:28 PM.

              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
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              • #52
                Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                No creationist will ever address Dinosaurs. They just pretend they didn't hear the question, because it's quite literally impossible to square 230,000,000 year old 100-foot reptiles existing on a 6,000 year old planet alongside modern humans armed with only sticks and stones without fully embracing the crazy.
                You should stick to giving your opinion, instead trying to give the opinions of millions of people you've never met. I believe in Creationism, and I believe in dinosaurs, so obviously you don't know what in the hell you're talking about.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  You should stick to giving your opinion, instead trying to give the opinions of millions of people you've never met. I believe in Creationism, and I believe in dinosaurs, so obviously you don't know what in the hell you're talking about.
                  Go for it. By all means, let's hear it. Stop telling me that I'm speaking for you and start speaking for yourself.

                  It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                  Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                  Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                  NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                  • #54
                    Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                    I don't take the Bible literally in that it took 6 days to create the entire world. What is a day to God? I don't know, and you're even more full of it if you're going to argue that you do.

                    One day might be equal to millions of years. Creating anmials (dinosaurs) in one day, for God, and then man in another, could easily have millions of years between the two.

                    I have never heard a Creationist deny the existance of Dinosaurs. Admittedly, I don't go around talking about the topic a whole lot, so I'm sure there are, but trying to peg millions upon millions of people into one square box, that you set up is probably the most narassistic thing said in this thread yet.

                    And besides, Creationism could be correct, but our understanding of the Creator completely wrong. This factual presentenation of either argument is silly, and trying to mock those that disagree with you is even sillier.
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                      I don't take the Bible literally in that it took 6 days to create the entire world. What is a day to God? I don't know, and you're even more full of it if you're going to argue that you do.

                      One day might be equal to millions of years. Creating anmials (dinosaurs) in one day, for God, and then man in another, could easily have millions of years between the two.

                      I have never heard a Creationist deny the existance of Dinosaurs. Admittedly, I don't go around talking about the topic a whole lot, so I'm sure there are, but trying to peg millions upon millions of people into one square box, that you set up is probably the most narassistic thing said in this thread yet.

                      And besides, Creationism could be correct, but our understanding of the Creator completely wrong. This factual presentenation of either argument is silly, and trying to mock those that disagree with you is even sillier.
                      You're not arguing creationism. You're arguing for the existence of God. Darwinism and God are not mutually exclusive.

                      If you want to expand the term "creationism" to "at some point in time, somewhere, god created the universe," then that isn't what's being discussed here. I stated myself that it is quite literally impossible to trace existence of time itself back to the very beginning without running into the existence of a god. But that isn't what is being talked about (without being talked about) here.
                      Last edited by Kstat; 04-29-2013, 01:44 PM.

                      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                        I'm arguing that God created the universe, thus I'm arguing Creationism.
                        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          I'm arguing that God created the universe, thus I'm arguing Creationism.
                          ...again, not what we're talking about here.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                            Personally, I don't buy the allegation that the 7 days stuff could mean some kind of 'special God days' versus just plain old 24 hour days. The only reason I can see for anyone to assume that spin is to make what would otherwise be a square peg fit in a round hole, in my opinion. Not that you can't believe that if you want, but I find it dubious and contrived myself.

                            I feel like some people act like they can't believe in God without attaching a popular religion to God at the same time. Perhaps God is real but the religions built around him are mistaken. They don't have to go hand in hand.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                              Originally posted by Kstat View Post
                              If you want to expand the term "creationism" to "at some point in time, somewhere, god created the universe,"

                              You mean expand it to the actual definition of the term? Yes, I'd like to "expand" it to that.
                              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: The Origin of Life/Evolution?

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                You mean expand it to the actual definition of the term? Yes, I'd like to "expand" it to that.
                                ...then you've officially expanded "creationism" to "anything anyone believes ever." You've officially run as far away from this topic as possible without putting your toes in the water.

                                Like Hicks said, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

                                When terms like "indoctrination of our children" and "arrival of the fittest" come into play, you've narrowed the definition significantly.
                                Last edited by Kstat; 04-29-2013, 02:05 PM.

                                It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                                Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                                Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                                NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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