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Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Rule #11

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A simple question

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  • #46
    Re: A simple question

    Originally posted by Eindar View Post
    I'm not talking about your friend, I'm talking about the other 95+% of the populace of this city.
    My comment was not directed to you Eindar, I happen to agree with you.
    Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: A simple question

      Originally posted by naptown View Post
      Oh and one other thing... winning cures all ills.... let them rip off 50 plus wins, play entertaining ball, no more bonehead bad PR incidents, make a deep run into the playoffs and they will all come running back.
      Which is it? 50-plus wins, playing entertaining ball (doesn't require winning), no more bonehead bad PR incidendes (doesn't require winning), or making a deep run into the playoffs (only requires playing 0.500 ball before the playoff start)?

      Does winning really cure all ills? The 61-team win had lots of problems. Winning may disguise the problems, they may be put on the backburner on a temporary basis. But winning is not the antedote. The 61-win team was crumbling with chemistry problems during the Miami and Detroit series, and crumbling with injuries to JO and Tinsley during the Detroit series. Those themes first appeared at the conclusion of the greatest regular season in the franchises' NBA history and haven't changed yet.

      On the other hand, winning just might be the symptom of fixing all the problems this team has had.

      And then, the fans will come back.
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: A simple question

        All I can say is that given the following:

        - PR issues
        - Profit problems
        - previously reported stories that the Simons are looking at how to pass on the team when the time comes

        we are at a very dangerous point. Those people claiming they won't support the Pacers due to incidents/losing/playing style/whatever need to understand that this lack of support could easily lead to the lack of an NBA team in Indianapolis.

        I'm not saying they have to change their feelings or actions, they just need to be aware that there are deeper consequences than just sending a message and expecting to start hitting games next season.

        It may be that driving the franchise out is exactly the punishment some people are going for. Fine and dandy, but I really don't think everyone is aware that it could get this drastic.
        BillS

        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: A simple question

          Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
          The 61-win team was crumbling with chemistry problems during the Miami and Detroit series, and crumbling with injuries to JO and Tinsley during the Detroit series.....
          And there were 18,345 in the stands every home game during both those series......
          PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: A simple question

            Originally posted by Tyrion View Post
            UB, I think that it's just the opposite of what you have suggested. I am way more upset about this team and likely to stay home than I would be if I didn't care so much about the Pacers.

            I was totally pissed before the incident that we were going into the season with the same backcourt. I found/find the whole attempt to sell the "new look" Pacers to be totally disingenuous. This team is the same team as last year's team was to start the year, except Artest is replaced by a less-good Harrington. So I am coming at this with a negative bias that the average fan probably doesn't have. Then, when at the press conference to start training camp, Rick Carlisle talked about Jackson as having valuable leadership skills and wanting him to become a team leader, I thought I would puke.

            The way I look at this is that it serves Carlisle, Bird, Walsh, and the Simons. THEY have made this organization into the laughing stock of the NBA. I don't need to support that. I have been a Pacer fan since the mid-80s. I don't have season tickets, because I work several nights a week, but I have gone to about half the home games. That is over. The Pacers are a joke. I haven't been able to stand watching IU basketball the last few years, but I'm hoping that is going to change.

            To Uncle Buck's point, I am fanatical about the Pacers and only a fair-weather Colts fan. An incident like this would probably not change my Colts viewing, attendance, etc., But I am going to send the only kind of message that I can to the Pacers. The team I love has become a joke. Oh, and winning with a team that is an embarrassment in the way they play the game and conduct themselves in the community is not an answer to me. I watched the Pacers play losing ball for years and would do it again, but I won't support a team made up of players with these attitudes.
            I agree with a lot of this.

            If I wasn't passionate about this team, I would've given up my tickets when we moved out of Indy.

            If I wasn't passionate about this team, the last three or four seasons wouldn't have been so painful for me.

            I've actually skipped watching games on TV over the past two seasons. That's never happened before.

            Ultimately, I'll still buy my tickets, because I can't stay away. But I'm really, really pissed off at them right now.

            At some point in time it becomes "shame on us" for continuing to support them when they have not proven they are trying to get better. They're telling us what we want to hear so that we keep paying them, but they don't back it up with actions.

            The trick is that this team has the monopoly of professional basketball in my hometown, so its either "support them" or shut professional basketball out of my life. Right now, I don't like those choices.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: A simple question

              Originally posted by Peck View Post

              2. Now having said that I think it's unfair to judge fans based on how often you attend games. I know your not intentionally doing it, but you go to a lot of games & as far as I know you go by yourself. So you are not paying for a family of 3 or more to go to a game. It's hard to blame someone for not wanting to spend that kind of money on a team that doesn't represent what they want to see on the floor.

              I think I'm very careful not to judge fans on how often they go to games. I'm just going to say it, many of you who post in here don't go to many games because of the money and or other family or work commitments, and I would never question your fandom (as I've tried to make clear). For example I don't buy a lot of Pacers gear, in fact I've probably spent less than $80 in my lifetime on jerseys, T-Shirts, Sweatshirts, I just don't really care that much about wearing Pacers gear, some could argue that makes me less of a fan, well no it doesn't obviously. Many of you spend a lot more on Pacers gear than I do.

              There are many people in this forum who are probably bigger fans than I am who go to one game per year.

              None of that is the point I'm trying to make.

              What I'm saying is probably 90% of those people who are calling the radio talk shows to criticize the Pacers and say they will never go to a Pacers game again, rarely if ever went to games in the first place. I know that to be true about the 15-20 people who I've spoken with personally, they aren't die-hard Pacers fans, they aren't casual Pacers fans, in some cases they hate the Pacers. They don't like the Pacers at all, but they are using this incident to criticize the Pacers because it is politically correct right now.

              I'm not a Nascar, or Indy Racing league fan, I just don't like it, I know it's good for the city and I want those events to stay here even though I don't go. But if some big story broke about how how the most popular drivers are criminals and on drugs or whatever, and then I call the local radio shows, e-mail the Star, e-mail the local sports guys and said this is horrible I'm never going to another racing event in my life. And those media people go on the air and say they are getting thousands of E-mails from racing fans and they are very upset, that would be false because I'm not a racing fan. That leaves the false impression that die-hard fans are leaving in droves. I just think non-Pacers fans who are being critical of the Pacers are misrepresenting themselves as an excuse to be critical and the media is buying it.

              Peck, and everyone else, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying, I know Pacers fans aren't happy and rightfully so

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: A simple question

                Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post


                At some point in time it becomes "shame on us" for continuing to support them when they have not proven they are trying to get better. They're telling us what we want to hear so that we keep paying them, but they don't back it up with actions.
                This is a topic for another thread, but you really don't believe they aren't trying to get better? Maybe I'm taking your comments out of context.

                Jay - just for the record, you deserve an award for still going to as many games as you do while living in Chicago (yes I know you have family here) That is a horrible drive though. Fighting through Chicago traffic.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: A simple question

                  They haven't proven it because they haven't played any games.

                  Talk is cheap. I want to see an improved product on the court and I'm not measuring improvement in W's and L's. Just as you've been calling it a two-year process, I'm expecting this team to still be well below 0.500 at the all-star break. I'm looking for a commitment to playing a better brand of team basketball.

                  Lastly, "Al plus ten new backups/role players that will barely make the roster and rarely play" is not the same thing as overhauling the roster.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: A simple question

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I think I'm very careful not to judge fans on how often they go to games. I'm just going to say it, many of you who post in here don't go to many games because of the money and or other family or work commitments,
                    Absolutely UB.

                    The Mrs. and I had season tickets in the 80s because we didn't have kids and could afford it (disposable income).

                    In the 90s we could still afford the tickets, however at that time the boys were big enough to play for their school teams and that frankly became more important. We still went to several games, but there was a cutback.

                    So starting in the last 5 years paying for two college educations has taken away any extra cash we could have spent on the Ps.

                    The die hards are still going to go. Life's cycle will change the direction for many. As others have pointed out it's the casual fans and probably corporates that these events will affect the most in deciding to go.
                    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: A simple question

                      Originally posted by jjbjjbjjb View Post
                      If Eddie Gill was the starting PG and the team won 35 games, the NBA would...still be better than the Euroleague?


                      Rick gets his 2nd COY win too probably.



                      What part of Season ticket holder since the telethon do you people not understand?
                      Geezer, I understand it fine, and if they lost him then its a true loss. But the cold hard facts tell us that he's not the norm. If he were then I would never have come close to seeing Dale's first game (and a big victory by the Pacers no less), except from the rafters.

                      Hey, I've NEVER had seasons tix, never could afford them. I do spend a lot on games as I cherry pick a few and buy really good singles at face. More than a regular person, but not 82 (41 pairs) at $170 each. More like 10-12, which is still a chunk of change at that price. But I'm not the guy that kept the team singularly afloat....of course I don't write them off to a business and the money I spend is more than I spend on any other single source of entertainment in a year, but still.

                      Take a client, business expense.



                      And while we are on it, having sat with those ticket holders I can tell you that drunk is the norm, not the exception. In fact I believe we all know the person with the NICEST SEATS IN CONSECO...floor, front row, center court. Now who did the 5 time divorcee marry? Oh yeah, the stripper he met at his son's bachelor party.

                      Ride on Indiana puritans, ride on. I love watching them parade in with their cocktails in hand shmoozing with each other and cutting out early after coming in late.

                      Even better are the 4 drunks in row 3 using the law firm's tickets who are screaming out insults to whatever player they can target by the mid-2nd quarter. "Hey, I'M the show and I...er, someone...paid good money for my right to tell Jason Kidd to go back to beating his wife."

                      That's what I want to hear, some Foster Brooks double telling me how he's had enough and won't be back cause he has to take a stand. Good news for Club Rio, guess where his season ticket money will be going instead...can you break a $50 please?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: A simple question

                        In the 90s we could still afford the tickets, however at that time the boys were big enough to play for their school teams
                        I had never missed a playoff game since the DET series, and went to several regular season games too (on the cheap) UNTIL the little league team I was coaching (I didn't even have a kid on the team) had games on the same night. Turned out to be the first year the team won a playoff series and it turned out that every home night I had to coach.

                        It sucked, but it was worth it. I liked "my" team even more than the Pacers. I definitely understand those kinds of priority choices.

                        BTW, I never could catch a break on game overlaps till game 5 vs ATL in 96...freaking fracking sumbee. Talk about crap luck.



                        Jay, I will say that I agree that much of the product going on the court at the end of last season was ugly, and that wasn't because they lost. That Nets team was one they could have beaten if they just kept it together. Of course no Peja didn't exactly help, and that was when I really started wanting them to let him go. I will say that JO finished the season with his best ball and obviously AJ made the most of his always favorable Kidd matchup, but otherwise the team looked more like a disrupted team than at any point in the last 2 years (except right after the brawl).

                        I do get mad at the PRODUCT, just like you. I expect to see good movement and team structure more than individual effort. Club Rio doesn't impact that. Having a team together without major injuries and not having a player going on local TV to tell the GM he wants off the roster because his 15-16 FGAs just aren't enough (ie, he wanted more money) should go a long way to improving the product.

                        Rick has made something out of unimpressive rosters before, and this one actually has some talent. What they need is consistancy in terms of who is available to play on a nightly basis.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Class, Sportsmanship, Effort

                          Sigh.
                          My Pacers, the ones I've watched and supported since 1967, have put me in a crappy mood. The old crusty drafty Coliseum, MSA with curtains drawn across the empty seats, no, none of that compares to the crap they've been throwing at us now for two years.

                          Is it not my right as a fan to feel betrayed, annoyed, disappointed? I must blindly support my team no matter what? Class, Sportsmanship, and Effort are all I ever ask. I notice when some of you talk about wins bringing back the fans you also mention Jax2 cleaning up his act, no more bonehead PRs, play entertaining ball, etc. That's more than just winning. That's also Class, Sportsmanship, and Effort. If your team embarrasses you, it doesn't matter how many games they win.

                          Will just winning a lot of games pull the fans back in? Sure, but not all. I'm obviously a fan without regard to wins and losses. Winning WILL NOT pull me back in, but the intangibles will. That's how I want my team to behave, not like knucklehead warriors. I want them to play the right way, proud, with their heads up, but not up their a$$es.

                          RIGHT NOW, THEY OWE ME. I haven't abandoned them, but their debt won't be paid until they can demonstrate Class, Sportsmanship, and Effort.
                          Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: A simple question

                            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                            We all have seen, heard, and read "fans" say that because of the "incident" they will no longer go to any Pacers games, and they no longer will support the Pacers.

                            OK, here is my question. Were those "fans" who are saying that, did they ever go to games, did they ever watch the Pacers, did they ever support the Pacers except maybe when the Pacers get to the ECF?

                            I say, no they weren't. They are just looking for the opportunity to slam the Pacers, they certainly weren't die-hard fans to begin with and they are using the incident as an excuse to bash the Pacers.

                            I said I wouldn't go to any games as long as certain players were on the roster. And I've been a Pacer fan since I can remember (die-hard though only since '93).

                            Honestly, last year was the toughest and most disappointing year I can remember, moreso than '96-'97 and '95-'96. And I'm still here.

                            Maybe some people were waiting for a chance to slam the Pacers, but I never wanted that chance. That's the whole point. Either way, whether warranted or not, "fans" have more than enough reasons to not support this team if they don't want to.

                            I'll still support the team. I still plan on watching every game. But I feel like I have to draw the line somewhere. I'm probably overreacting, but right now I feel there's no way I shoud reinforce management's/player's repeated bad decisions/betrayals with my money.

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                            • #59
                              Re: A simple question

                              "IF they win some games, the crowd will come back."

                              "IF they stay clear of incidents, the crowd will come back."


                              I keep hearing this, but many of us believe they will not win a lot of games for the same they keep having incidents. Bad choices, bad judgment, bad character.
                              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                              • #60
                                Re: A simple question

                                I have to tell you, I am quite impressed with this thread. It may the first time I've ever really seen actual "definition" of a fan and not just "well, you aren't a fan". Many of the views reflected here are one's I subscribe to - others not so much. But there is a very clear perception of a fan and I believe most of it on the same page.

                                I'm probably not as equipped to express my definition as well as most on here (impressive writers ) but I will say this. As someone who has "been with the team" since it's inception, this is not the product nor players I want to see. Laugh if you want about being an old-timer or whatever, but there is a right way and wrong way to do things. We haven't been doing it the right way.

                                A very quick story about being a fan over here. I have Pacer gear with me - hats, t-shirts, etc. I even have a Jackson jersey. I will still wear everything with the exception of the jersey. It will never see the light of the Iraqi sun. I bought Slingbox specifically so I could watch the Pacer games on my computer over here when I can get a good feed. If that isn't being a fan I don't know what is.
                                The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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