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Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

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  • #91
    Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    What's your answer to the question about you thinking a player who sits out 18 months would be at their "normal" within 2 1/2 months?
    OK - just to be THAT GUY, I'll ask how long does it take for someone to return to 'normal' ?? 3 months ?? 4 months ?? 18 months ??

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

      Originally posted by PacerDude View Post
      OK - just to be THAT GUY, I'll ask how long does it take for someone to return to 'normal' ?? 3 months ?? 4 months ?? 18 months ??
      There is no schedule. I'm not saying he will. But I know thinking he should, in 2 1/2 months, is setting up failure on probably 99% of people.

      Westbrook is probably the best example of someone recovering at that type of pace, but then again, it didn't last long. Maybe Dirk, but even though his shooting numbers are/were better than Danny's, it still took him awhile to go from a good shooter, back to Dirk. I can't think of any other recent examples that even come close.

      EDIT: I'll be a little bit more fair and give my expectations. I'd say give him until Dec. of next season. I'm fully aware that the Pacers didn't have that much time to wait on him, which is why I fully back the Turner trade.
      Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014, 03:20 PM.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

        Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
        I thought he would after a few games. IMO Granger as he is now is the best sf on that team and he'll get better as the season moves on. I really think Granger is going to look good in this system and the role he'll have with them. I'm still in observation mode with Turner but it's too early to say who will be the better player between Granger and Turner come May.
        It'll be funny to me when he plays well and all his detractors switch to the new narrative "well, only because of Chris Paul..."

        Though to be fair, Danny's game is probably ideally suited to playing off of a dynamic PG, much more so than being asked to create. He should really thrive in LA.
        "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

        - ilive4sports

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        • #94
          Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

          And another thing, it's just really really really weird seeing posters who like the Bynum signing talking about how Danny's done.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
            Really? You've been declaring Danny donezo since the beginning, without ever seeing him on the floor. Now you've seen him on the floor, and you use his FG% to back up your assertion that he's done. It looks like to me, you built your opinion on the issue, about a year ago, and everything since has only strengthened that position. Which is fine, btw, but I think we can be open enough to admit that certain opinions have been formed and argued continually.

            What's your answer to the question about you thinking a player who sits out 18 months would be at their "normal" within 2 1/2 months?

            I don't know if Danny will get better in a new system, but I know that's it's really hard for players to change their style of play when they're healthy, let alone change their style and recovery from serious knee issues all at the same time.
            I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on. Holding him to a 20ppg standard would have been unrealistic, but I don't think that expecting some improvement over 29 games was an outlandish expectation. It just never happened. Sure guys like Dirk and D West looked off after their injuries, but they were still pretty good players who showed flashes of their old brilliance. Granger OTOH looks like a complete shell of his old self.

            I hope he improves and maybe a change of scenery will be good for him. It couldn't have been easy mentally for him to watch his stature with the Pacers decline so rapidly. In LA, he has no expectations or prior history that he can be compared to. It's a complete fresh slate. He deserves to have a nice finish to his career after all of this bad luck. That being said, I just think it's pretty unfair to blame his ineffectiveness here this season on everything from Vogel, Lance, the system, and the polar vortex. It's not their fault that he was so poor on offense this year.

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
              I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on. Holding him to a 20ppg standard would have been unrealistic, but I don't think that expecting some improvement over 29 games was an outlandish expectation. It just never happened. Sure guys like Dirk and D West looked off after their injuries, but they were still pretty good players who showed flashes of their old brilliance. Granger OTOH looks like a complete shell of his old self.

              I hope he improves and maybe a change of scenery will be good for him. It couldn't have been easy mentally for him to watch his stature with the Pacers decline so rapidly. In LA, he has no expectations or prior history that he can be compared to. It's a complete fresh slate. He deserves to have a nice finish to his career after all of this bad luck. That being said, I just think it's pretty unfair to blame his ineffectiveness here this season on everything from Vogel, Lance, the system, and the polar vortex. It's not their fault that he was so poor on offense this year.
              His shot got worse as time went on, but I thought his movement was much improved. It was easiest to see on defense, though I will admit I ballwatch terribly when the Pacers are playing offense. But he was missing all kinds of wide open jumpers and lightly contested layups. I think his main problem was attitude; he was so worried about protecting his knee and "fitting in" to the Pacers' team identity that he didn't look to score aggressively enough. He got a reality check for being traded from a contender and I think that will get him going. Having Chris Paul drop perfect dimes won't hurt either.
              Time for a new sig.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                I don't know how long it should take for someone to get back to "normal", but I think it's fair to expect some improvement as time goes on. Danny never got any better over the two month span that he was back and in fact got worse as time went on.
                Seriously? We can look at his FG% and debunk that right away.

                Dec FG% - 28.9%
                Jan FG% - 38.5%
                Feb FG% - 35.3%

                I don't expect a straight trend line up, it's going to have valleys and peaks. Trying to argue that Danny hasn't gotten any better, is completely devoid of what the stats say he's done. You've not even given enough time to see a trend line, before you're ready to declare he never got better.

                EDIT: Actually there is enough for a trend line, and it's going up.
                Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014, 04:08 PM.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  Seriously? We can look at his FG% and debunk that right away.

                  Dec FG% - 28.9%
                  Jan FG% - 38.5%
                  Feb FG% - 35.3%


                  I don't expect a straight trend line up, it's going to have valleys and peaks. Trying to argue that Danny hasn't gotten any better, is completely devoid of what the stats say he's done. You've not even given enough time to see a trend line, before you're ready to declare he never got better.
                  Well he only played 5 games in December, but the way you have it laid out makes it seem as though Dec and January have equal weight, which obviously isn't the case. He played the five games in December and shot horrible, which was expected because of the long time away from the game. Then he shoots 38.5% in January, his first full month back. That wouldn't have been too bad if he improved on it and got his February average in the 40's. But that obviously didn't happen, as your stats say with the 35.3% in Feb. So yeah, there was virtually no consistent improvement at all.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                    Why would you expect someone to steadily get better, and not have ups and downs? Since you want to throw out Dec, we have two months worth of information.

                    Do you think 2 months is enough to properly evaluate where Danny will be next Oct?

                    If the answer is no, then you just shot down your own point.
                    If the answer is yes, then there's not much left to say other than, we'll see.

                    EDIT: And I'm still curious as to how you formulate this opinion on Danny, and yet are massively in favor of Bynum's addition. One would think his long history of knee troubles would strengthen the idea that he's done, rather than give hope, much more so than Danny's two months.
                    Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014, 04:24 PM.
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                      the need to impress on anyone that DG sucked or sucks is amazing, you don't like him, you have other heroes, fine with us, but please stop trying to prove we are all wrong for liking or having liked DG33 who played almost 9 years for us and won MIP and and All-Star selection, was the 1st player ever to raise his avg by 5pt per season over at least 3 seasons and was a gentleman even with all the **** he had to take here.
                      We are not wrong in that, and we agree he had produced little the last 2 years and that it changed the picture completely, but it does not make the "pain" any less of seeing him go.
                      Why can you not simply respect people for still carrying a torch for this guy and give them time to learn to like "your" favorites instead of making it a pissin-contest which in it's own right makes most of us argue against your favorites just to "protect" our own feelings. You are creating an atmosphere where we have a choice to either love our guy and thus hate yours or love yours as well and disavow "our guy" and that just aint right.

                      Please let it rest and don't make liking or having enjoyed DG33 a crime, it wasn't and it isn't

                      I wish him well, and much success, and go Pacers!
                      So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                      If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                      Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                        Why would you expect someone to steadily get better, and not have ups and downs. Since you want to throw out Dec, we have two months worth of information. Do you think 2 months is enough to properly evaluate where Danny will be next Oct?

                        If the answer is no, then you just shot down your own point.
                        If the answer is yes, then there's not much left to say other than, we'll see.
                        I think it's more likely than not that he'll be better in October since he really can't be much worse than he was this year.

                        Ups and downs are expected, but over a two month span I would hope to see more ups than downs so that the overall averages would gradually increase. 29 games isn't a super huge amount, but it's still a fairly solid sample. It's a little over a third of the season.

                        And no I did not want to throw December out, because those 5 games were as important as any other 5. My point was that the way you had it stacked against January and February was a bit misleading since there were way more games played in those two months.

                        I wasn't posting this morning with the intent of saying that DG was completely done or anything of the sort. I first responded to Pacerized's comments saying that the system in LA should help Danny. My point to him was that his game currently has some terrible flaws that no system can correct. The only way they can get corrected is if he himself improves and starts making shots. Will this happen over the end of the regular season and into the playoffs? Maybe, but I'm glad that it's a different team gambling on it.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                          Originally posted by able View Post
                          the need to impress on anyone that DG sucked or sucks is amazing, you don't like him, you have other heroes, fine with us, but please stop trying to prove we are all wrong for liking or having liked DG33 who played almost 9 years for us and won MIP and and All-Star selection, was the 1st player ever to raise his avg by 5pt per season over at least 3 seasons and was a gentleman even with all the **** he had to take here.
                          We are not wrong in that, and we agree he had produced little the last 2 years and that it changed the picture completely, but it does not make the "pain" any less of seeing him go.
                          Why can you not simply respect people for still carrying a torch for this guy and give them time to learn to like "your" favorites instead of making it a pissin-contest which in it's own right makes most of us argue against your favorites just to "protect" our own feelings. You are creating an atmosphere where we have a choice to either love our guy and thus hate yours or love yours as well and disavow "our guy" and that just aint right.

                          Please let it rest and don't make liking or having enjoyed DG33 a crime, it wasn't and it isn't

                          I wish him well, and much success, and go Pacers!
                          I'm not trying to **** on anyone. I've had healthy and cordial discussions with both Since86 and Pacerized in this thread today. I like Granger and have said multiple times over the past couple of weeks that he was a much needed classy personality after all of the unlikable a-holes that we had in the mid-2000's. Also, there's no doubt that he used to be a very good player. I've said multiple times that he had horrible luck in that he came of age with the likes of O'Brien/murph/Dun/Ford/etc, then he got hurt at a relatively young age when the team all of the sudden got scary good. That sucks and I hate that it happened to him. I would consider him a top 10 or so all time NBA Pacer, which is a good class to be in.

                          That being said, there is plenty of room here for some honest and differing opinions. Pacerized has implied multiple times that Lance, Vogel, and the system here let Danny down. That's fine, he's free to his opinion and maybe he's right. But I disagree and feel that Danny's issues are exponentially deeper than his teammates or system. Regardless, it was all healthy debate and conversation, IMO.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                            Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                            I wasn't posting this morning with the intent of saying that DG was completely done or anything of the sort.
                            Maybe not, but the constant challenging of someone who thinks Danny will eventually get things turned around starts painting the picture. This goes way beyond this conversation, and hits directly at the arguments that were made prior to the season even starting.

                            There's lots of reasons of valid reasons as to why someone would think Danny would get benefit out of playing for the Clips.
                            1) He's not being viewed as the savior of their bench, the way he was here.
                            2) Time. Whether or not it's a "new" system, it's still a system that will give him more time to get his legs underneath him.
                            3) Role. He's not asked to make plays. Whether or not it was Frank's system, or Danny took it upon himself, Danny was trying to be more than just a stand still shooter

                            Those are three big things that are in Danny's favor right now.
                            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              I think it's more likely than not that he'll be better in October since he really can't be much worse than he was this year.
                              I'm really not understanding this line of thinking at all. No matter how poorly he was shooting, a player can play a lot worse than producing 8ppg as a 6th man for a championship contending team. Even if he can't get back to where he was previously, he showed the ability to contribute to a team that was vying for a championship.


                              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              I wasn't posting this morning with the intent of saying that DG was completely done or anything of the sort. I first responded to Pacerized's comments saying that the system in LA should help Danny. My point to him was that his game currently has some terrible flaws that no system can correct. The only way they can get corrected is if he himself improves and starts making shots. Will this happen over the end of the regular season and into the playoffs? Maybe, but I'm glad that it's a different team gambling on it.
                              IDK if there's any direct correlation or not, but the same things could have been said about DJ Augustin and Gerald Green last year. They both shot abysmally for the Pacers coming off the bench last year. And now this year, they are both shooting and playing at a much higher level. I'm not saying that Danny will or wont have the same type of turnaround (because nobody knows) but it's definitely not something that's unprecedented when it comes to former players that came off the bench for the Pacers. Obviously Danny will need to become a bit more assertive offensively, and knock down his open 3's. But it's not something that should be seen as utterly impossible.
                              Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 03-03-2014, 05:00 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Danny Granger Signs with the Clippers

                                I went ahead and broke down Danny's shooting in 5 game spurts.

                                12-20 through 12-31 = 11/38 28.9%
                                1-1 through 1-8 = 21/46 45.7%
                                1-10 through 1-20 = 13/40 32.5%
                                1-22 through 1-30 = 11/31 35.6%
                                2-1 through 2-9 = 13/41 31.7%
                                2-10 through 2-19(4gms) = 11/27 40.7%

                                Still looks like an upward trend, albeit a slow one. The interesting part about that last 4 game split, is that he shot 1-6 in that last game. Not to mention that his FG% increase when he's given more rest.
                                Last edited by Since86; 03-03-2014, 05:11 PM.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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