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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

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  • #16
    Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    At what point does it stop being basketball? Get rid of foul outs because we should have star players stay in the game, drop the silly traveling, double-dribble, and palming rules because fans like to see dunks and fast breaks, allow offensive players to go anywhere on the court regardless of a defender having position because fans want to see scoring and not defense, and pretty soon it's H-O-R-S-E or, worse, WWE.
    I've thought DA was pretty clueless on some things before, but he has topped himself with the no-foul-out idea.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

      It's easy to look at GM's and point out the good and bad after the fact. They all make some good choices and they all make bad ones.

      I had the opportunity to talk to Billy Knight several times when he worked for the Pacers, all I know is he was a incredibly nice person.
      "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

        Originally posted by BillS View Post
        At what point does it stop being basketball? Get rid of foul outs because we should have star players stay in the game, drop the silly traveling, double-dribble, and palming rules because fans like to see dunks and fast breaks, allow offensive players to go anywhere on the court regardless of a defender having position because fans want to see scoring and not defense, and pretty soon it's H-O-R-S-E or, worse, WWE.
        How do you get that from "I would like to get rid of foul outs"

        The reason why I want to get rid of foul outs has nothing to do with star players. I just don't see why a player should be kicked out of a game for fouling. Do offensive lineman get sent to the sidelines after the second holding penalty. No a player can commit 25 holding penalties a game if they want and if their coach allows it. But they don't, so why does everyone assume fouls will increase if there are no foul outs. Aren't fouls penalty enough asnd if they aren't then maybe those rules should be changed. Don't kick the player out. Do short stops get sent to the dugout after the second error they commit.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

          It's funny that Bill Knight's hagiography is followed by a piece about Jeff Bower and the Hornets. Paraphrasing another poster, it's poetic justice that Bower will now have to coach the mess he created. He deserved to be fired more than Scott.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

            Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
            How do you get that from "I would like to get rid of foul outs"

            The reason why I want to get rid of foul outs has nothing to do with star players. I just don't see why a player should be kicked out of a game for fouling. Do offensive lineman get sent to the sidelines after the second holding penalty. No a player can commit 25 holding penalties a game if they want and if their coach allows it. But they don't, so why does everyone assume fouls will increase if there are no foul outs. Aren't fouls penalty enough asnd if they aren't then maybe those rules should be changed. Don't kick the player out. Do short stops get sent to the dugout after the second error they commit.
            If there were no foul outs what would stop teams from constantly fouling players on drives to the rim... every single time. Better to take your chance at the line right? I think this would be horrible for the flow of the game, I don't want to see two teams endlessly trade foul shots, I already think there is too much of this. Its boring.
            "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

            - ilive4sports

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            • #21
              Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
              How do you get that from "I would like to get rid of foul outs"

              The reason why I want to get rid of foul outs has nothing to do with star players. I just don't see why a player should be kicked out of a game for fouling. Do offensive lineman get sent to the sidelines after the second holding penalty. No a player can commit 25 holding penalties a game if they want and if their coach allows it. But they don't, so why does everyone assume fouls will increase if there are no foul outs. Aren't fouls penalty enough asnd if they aren't then maybe those rules should be changed. Don't kick the player out. Do short stops get sent to the dugout after the second error they commit.
              Is basketball football or baseball? Does a receiver have to dribble the football after catching it? Why does a batter only get 3 strikes, does a basketball player only get to shoot the ball 3 times?

              Saying "it isn't the rule in (sport x) so it shouldn't be the rule in (sport y)" is a false comparison because there are very few rules that are the same.

              Fouling out (a personal penalty as well as a team penalty) is one of the parts of the game that makes it unique. Fouling isn't meant to be a strategy, it is meant to be a no-no. An individual player is penalized for fouling for the specific reason that a foul should not be a weak player's way to stop a stronger player AND the ability to draw fouls against strong players is a strength in the game.
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                Originally posted by BillS View Post
                You'd have to do a lot of research to figure out just how much Billy had to do with those picks. The ownership in Atlanta has not just been dysfunctional, it has been dysfunctional and hands-on, meaning the ownership group stuck their oars in whenever the opportunity presented itself.
                Understatement of the year.

                Let's just say that I know a bit about this case from a professional perspective.

                http://www.courts.state.md.us/busine...9/mdbt7_09.pdf

                This is no closer to resolution than it was in 2005.
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                  Originally posted by BillS View Post
                  Is basketball football or baseball? Does a receiver have to dribble the football after catching it? Why does a batter only get 3 strikes, does a basketball player only get to shoot the ball 3 times?

                  Saying "it isn't the rule in (sport x) so it shouldn't be the rule in (sport y)" is a false comparison because there are very few rules that are the same.

                  Fouling out (a personal penalty as well as a team penalty) is one of the parts of the game that makes it unique. Fouling isn't meant to be a strategy, it is meant to be a no-no. An individual player is penalized for fouling for the specific reason that a foul should not be a weak player's way to stop a stronger player AND the ability to draw fouls against strong players is a strength in the game.
                  Those are all great points, and I don't disagree with anyone of them. But I still don't see why a player should be disqualified for doing what IMO is part of the game

                  I would be OK with adding some type of additional penalty on a players 6th foul. Maybe an additional free throw. If it is a shooting foul or if a team is in the bonus, give them three fouls - might be interesting to see if a coach leaves a star player in the game. I might agree to this.

                  The fact of the matter is it isn't going to happen anyway - they won't change the foul out rule, no matter what I think. I would like to see and would be open to doing something to where a player isn't taken out of a game for fouling. Seems like too big of a penalty - they do give free throws. Maybe go to a double bonus on the 8th team foul to offset too much fouling

                  OK, here is what I want, I don't want additional fouling, but by the same token I don't want any players disqualified for committing too many fouls. I'm sure someone smarter than me can come up with a great idea of how to acomplish both.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                    Actually I am with BillS on this one.


                    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.







                      One of my three favorite pacers of all time


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                        One of your three favorites with Dale and who else? JO? Artest?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                          Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
                          One of your three favorites with Dale and who else? JO? Artest?
                          Thought I'd put together a montage of J.O. moments that I love.







                          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                            Originally posted by Peck View Post
                            Actually I am with BillS on this one.
                            I know everyone is. Does anyone know the origin of the foul out rule. Has it been there from the beginning

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                              The original rule:

                              No shouldering, holding, pushing, striking or tripping in any way of an opponent. The first infringement of this rule by any person shall count as a foul; the second shall disqualify him until the next goal is made or, if there was evident intent to injure the person, for the whole of the game. No substitution shall be allowed.

                              http://inventors.about.com/library/i...ball_rules.htm

                              There were 9 on a team so losing someone for the time until the next goal wasn't quite so bad as it sounded.

                              Looks like the rule making a disqualification last the entire game was in the 1890s, and the number of fouls was set to 5 in 1908.

                              http://www.archive.org/stream/basket...77mbp_djvu.txt
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Former Pacer Billy Knight left out in the cold.

                                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                                But I still don't see why a player should be disqualified for doing what IMO is part of the game
                                Its not part of the game, it is an explicit violation of the rules.

                                Come on.

                                It just happens to be that you are allowed to break this particular rule a limited number of times, so using this against-the-rules tactic can be applied strategically, in a perverse way. Traveling and other dribbling violations are less egregious to the rule book so you can commit an unlimited number of those without being disqualified (although you will get benched...)

                                Occasionally in football, it is a good idea for the receiver to interfere with the DB to break up an apparent interception. But it is still against the rules and carries a penalty. It just happens to be that ten yards from the line of scrimmage and a loss of down is better than a turnover.
                                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                                And life itself, rushing over me
                                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                                Comment

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