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Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

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  • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

    Originally posted by CableKC View Post
    I don't get why some of you are wondering why Ainge wanted to pay up big for Kyrie while not giving up a similar king's ransom for PG13 or Butler. For the reasons that Ryan has pointed out....which should be obvious....as well as the fact that Kyrie is locked into a $18 to 20 mil per year for the next 2 years ( which is less than what IT will likely get on the FA market next season ), I get why he wanted Kyrie.

    Did the Celtics overpay? Sure, they did......but I understand why they made that trade.....he was the best Player that the Celtics could have gotten over the next season.
    I understand PG, but not Butler.

    Comment


    • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

      Originally posted by freddielewis14 View Post
      Letting IT walk doesn't change anything. Kyrie can walk the following year.

      I agree, don't sign IT to extension if you think he not worth it.
      The Celtics got something in return for a valuable asset that will make them better for the next 2 seasons. Sure, Kyrie can walk after this year.....but there's a good chance that he will stay. It's Boston, he will likely be the Leader of the Team, they have a good coach, he will get the MAX and he has a very solid Team to lead over the next couple of years. It's possible that he can bolt.....but IMHO I doubt that he does.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

      Comment


      • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

        Originally posted by freddielewis14 View Post
        I understand PG, but not Butler.
        Agree to disagree.....it's debatable. Overall, I can see some arguments that Butler is a better Player than Kyrie.....but this question is more of a question that can be asked in a vacuum, where you don't take into considerations other factors.

        To me, the difference between Butler ( or PG13 ) versus Kyrie ( from an individual Player POV ) isn't the difference between comparing an average Starter and an Elite Player. At most, the difference is comparing 2 Near Elite Players where one is better than the other ( but not by that much ). When taking that into consideration....where both Players are comparable.....or at least talking about Players that belong in the same proverbial "ball parks".....you have to take into consideration other factors.

        Given that the Celtics didn't want to retain IT ( whose not really a PG but a super Scoring but small Guard ), will have a need to fill the Starting PG position, the Celtics already have 2 other Forwards that MUST get minutes and also plays the same position as Butler.....Kyrie better fits the Celtics for the long term based off of positional need.
        Last edited by CableKC; 08-25-2017, 07:15 PM.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

        Comment


        • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          The Celtics got something in return for a valuable asset that will make them better for the next 2 seasons. Sure, Kyrie can walk after this year.....but there's a good chance that he will stay. It's Boston, he will likely be the Leader of the Team, they have a good coach, he will get the MAX and he has a very solid Team to lead over the next couple of years. It's possible that he can bolt.....but IMHO I doubt that he does.
          Lol, we have no idea what Kyrie will do. This news came out of nowhere.

          The Celtics could have had an easy road to the finals had they not handed Lebron an elite offensive player, elite 3 and D player and at least a rotational big and the Brooklyn pick.

          Comment


          • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

            Originally posted by CableKC View Post
            Agree to disagree.....it's debatable. Overall, I can see some arguments that Butler is a better Player than Kyrie.....but this question is more of a question that can be asked in a vacuum, where you don't take into considerations other factors.

            To me, the difference between Butler ( or PG13 ) versus Kyrie ( from an individual Player POV ) isn't the difference between comparing an average Starter and an Elite Player. At most, the difference is comparing 2 Near Elite Players where one is better than the other ( but not by that much ). When taking that into consideration....where both Players are comparable.....or at least talking about Players that belong in the same proverbial "ball parks".....you have to take into consideration other factors.

            Given that the Celtics didn't want to retain IT ( whose not really a PG but a super Scoring but small Guard ), will have a need to fill the Starting PG position, the Celtics already have 2 other Forwards that MUST get minutes and also plays the same position as Butler.....Kyrie better fits the Celtics for the long term based off of positional need.
            To be clear, I don't care about IT walking. I don't care about Butler or PG. If IT is healthy enough to be traded, then he is healthy enough to be considered a go for this season. So I would rather keep assets than swap all that for 1 year of Kyrie after IT contract is up.

            Comment


            • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

              Originally posted by freddielewis14 View Post
              Lol, we have no idea what Kyrie will do. This news came out of nowhere.

              The Celtics could have had an easy road to the finals had they not handed Lebron an elite offensive player, elite 3 and D player and at least a rotational big and the Brooklyn pick.
              Both teams made out with a kings ransom where one Team clearly overpaid.. But who truly won the trade is debatable and we will see what happens. I'm not saying that the Celtics didn't overpaid and we have no clue whether there would be other Near Elite or Elite Players that would have become available between now and the trade deadline, but I can see why Ainge pulled the trigger on making the trade.
              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

              Comment


              • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                Originally posted by freddielewis14 View Post
                To be clear, I don't care about IT walking. I don't care about Butler or PG. If IT is healthy enough to be traded, then he is healthy enough to be considered a go for this season. So I would rather keep assets than swap all that for 1 year of Kyrie after IT contract is up.
                Outside of the Brooklyn's pick....IT and Crowder were considered expendable to Ainge.

                Ainge would have rather have 2 years of Kyrie, make a fundamental change to the lineup and start to develop Tatum and Jaylen than another year of IT and Crowder ( which got them no where for the last 2 seasons ). In the end, he saw an opportunity to get a Near Elite Starting quality PG and he went for it instead of holding onto the assets ( which he's been doing for the last couple of seasons ) for another 6+ months to see what he can get.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                  Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                  Outside of the Brooklyn's pick....IT and Crowder were considered expendable to Ainge.

                  Ainge would have rather have 2 years of Kyrie, make a fundamental change to the lineup and start to develop Tatum and Jaylen than another year of IT and Crowder ( which got them no where for the last 2 seasons ). In the end, he saw an opportunity to get a Near Elite Starting quality PG and he went for it instead of holding onto the assets ( which he's been doing for the last couple of seasons ) for another 6+ months to see what he can get.
                  Man, I don't care if they were expendable. Not the point at all.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                    Originally posted by freddielewis14 View Post
                    Man, I don't care if they were expendable. Not the point at all.
                    Please elaborate then. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything....but clearly I am missing the point.

                    Is it that you think that the Celtics helped out the Cavs by overpaying for Kyrie?
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                      Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                      Please elaborate then. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything....but clearly I am missing the point.

                      Is it that you think that the Celtics helped out the Cavs by overpaying for Kyrie?
                      Lol, I've got tons of posts elaborating.

                      I think Kyrie is a great get for any team. I think the Celtics could be better with Kyrie. But the Cavs could also be better with IT, Crowder and Zizic. And with the pick Cavs may be able to put something together to keep Lebron away from the Lakers.

                      So the Cavs could have simply imploded this year, Lebron walks and Celtics have at least a finals trip this year and the East to themselves for years to come, to now the Cavs are sitting pretty for now and the future. Not to mention, they may only have one year of Kyrie to show for it all after IT's contract is up.

                      All I'm saying is, the worst case scenario is very bad for the Celtics. And it's not that unlikely. Healthy IT.
                      Last edited by freddielewis14; 08-25-2017, 09:04 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                        I think it comes down to this, the Celtics gave up:

                        - A guy that played better than Kyrie last year (Is slightly older & contract is up this year, so he has less value).
                        - One of the league's better role players, and one that showed up in the playoffs, that can do a lot of dirty work and hit 3s well enough.
                        - A really solid prospect in Zizic, who's 6'11 or 7' with a nice frame and athleticism (23rd in the draft).
                        - As well as the draft pick of a team that looks like a sure bet for bottom 5 in the NBA next year, in one of the most hyped drafts (it is extremely early) of the last decade.

                        I think it is entirely too much. I think Kyrie is an Incredibly talented offensive player (and a guy I trust more than IT in the playoffs) with defensive issues on a roster of guys with offensive talent that aren't anything special, to say the least, on defense. And a roster that has serious frontcourt worries. I think they will find someone on a vet minimum that will fix that a bit though. All of this while giving your competition something they've been looking for in another capable wing, and a guy that can take some pressure off of the best player in the world.

                        Overall, I think the Celtics are in a weird position. I felt they should have kept it together and been comfy establishing a real winning culture, kept their draft picks, and been the better version of the 6ers in a few years, with key veterans to continue guiding. Alternatively, I think they should have went for some of the better players that have been available over the past couple of seasons, that would have cost significantly less. Especially Jimmy B.

                        Overall, I think the Celtics are going to be fine, but I do think they could have had the best team in the NBA in a year or two had they played their cards a bit better.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                          Originally posted by Ichi View Post
                          I think it comes down to this, the Celtics gave up:

                          - A guy that played better than Kyrie last year (Is slightly older & contract is up this year, so he has less value).
                          - One of the league's better role players, and one that showed up in the playoffs, that can do a lot of dirty work and hit 3s well enough.
                          - A really solid prospect in Zizic, who's 6'11 or 7' with a nice frame and athleticism (23rd in the draft).
                          - As well as the draft pick of a team that looks like a sure bet for bottom 5 in the NBA next year, in one of the most hyped drafts (it is extremely early) of the last decade.

                          I think it is entirely too much. I think Kyrie is an Incredibly talented offensive player (and a guy I trust more than IT in the playoffs) with defensive issues on a roster of guys with offensive talent that aren't anything special, to say the least, on defense. And a roster that has serious frontcourt worries. I think they will find someone on a vet minimum that will fix that a bit though. All of this while giving your competition something they've been looking for in another capable wing, and a guy that can take some pressure off of the best player in the world.

                          Overall, I think the Celtics are in a weird position. I felt they should have kept it together and been comfy establishing a real winning culture, kept their draft picks, and been the better version of the 6ers in a few years, with key veterans to continue guiding. Alternatively, I think they should have went for some of the better players that have been available over the past couple of seasons, that would have cost significantly less. Especially Jimmy B.

                          Overall, I think the Celtics are going to be fine, but I do think they could have had the best team in the NBA in a year or two had they played their cards a bit better.
                          The thing is they have so many assets...they could still go and get an Anthony Davis if he's ever available; Lakers/76ers pick, Memphis pick, LAC pick...they could dump Tatum or Brown it's not like they got rid of everything. They weren't going to keep IT so they upgraded in the short and long term with Kyrie.

                          And also, I think secretly the Celtics brass doesn't care that much about next season...if they beat Cleveland and get to the Finals awesome, if they don't oh well LeBron will go to LA the next summer then they can focus on dominating the next phase of the Eastern Conference...
                          Last edited by Cactus Jax; 08-25-2017, 10:05 PM.
                          "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

                          ----------------- Reggie Miller

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                          • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                            Originally posted by Cactus Jax View Post
                            The thing is they have so many assets...they could still go and get an Anthony Davis if he's ever available; Lakers/76ers pick, Memphis pick, LAC pick...they could dump Tatum or Brown it's not like they got rid of everything. They weren't going to keep IT so they upgraded in the short and long term with Kyrie.

                            And also, I think secretly the Celtics brass doesn't care that much about next season...if they beat Cleveland and get to the Finals awesome, if they don't oh well LeBron will go to LA the next summer then they can focus on dominating the next phase of the Eastern Conference...
                            Well Kyrie only has two years left on his contract, but if he stays, then they've more than likely made nice upgrade at point guard. If they pull in someone to help that frontcourt, it's a different conversation though, you are right. I still can't help but to think they'd be much better off with Jimmy Butler, who went for considerably less.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                              celticsblog comments section is at least 75% negative...my favorite comment: "Literally just throwing away the heart and soul of the team in IT and Jae for a f****ing flat earther"

                              Comment


                              • Re: Danny Ainge finally blows his load and gets....Kyrie Irving?

                                Originally posted by dal9 View Post
                                celticsblog comments section is at least 75% negative...my favorite comment: "Literally just throwing away the heart and soul of the team in IT and Jae for a f****ing flat earther"
                                Good to know. I imagined most Celtics fans would hate giving up so much and helping your only challenge in the East.

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