Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Where do you rate Kobe all time?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

    Whenever I hear people talk about Kobe's "legendary" status I always think back in my head to game 7 of the 2010 finals. He was wretched that game. 6-24 on FGs and 0-6 from the 3 PT line. 4 TOs and 2 AST. He ended with 24 that game but 11 of them were a gift at the free throw line. With as many shots as he took he should've ended the game with 40. If the refs hadn't bailed out L.A. to the tune of 20 extra free throws they would've gotten blown out by Boston in that game. I'm still not convinced there wasn't some shady officiating going on in that game. I don't know the actual numbers, but I feel like Kobe went to the FT line about 4 times in the last 2 minutes of that game. You can watch all his screw ups below. A legendary player doesn't play like this in a crucial game. Yeah they won, and I understand that sometimes you have to take over the game and all that, but when you are getting double/triple teamed and continue to shoot fadeaway 3's are you really a legend? The lack of basketball IQ in those clips is astounding to me at times. Especially at about 45 seconds into the video when Ray Allen completely puts the clamps on Kobe and his turnound fadeaway jumper hits the side of the backboard. That play to me is the very essence of Kobe Bryant.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

      Try this list on for size. I don't have Kobe in the top-10, and I don't necessarily see James making the top-ten either. Neither of them were centers, and there are already too many non-C's on this list for my taste...

      1. Wilt
      2. Oscar
      3. Magic
      4. Bird
      5. Russell
      6. Jordan
      7. Shaq
      8. Kareem
      9. Duncan
      10. Olajuwan
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

        Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
        I don't think his career has been legendary just yet. Numbers wise, yes. But for all that talent, he only has one ring whereas Kobe has 5.

        Thus far, I would say that Lebron has underachieved a bit (in my eyes the most blessed and talented basketball player I've ever seen)


        Not saying he wont be legendary one day, and there's no doubt the guy is GREAT. But I still rank Kobe as the best player to come straight from HS to the pros.
        Sorry, but Moses Malone is the greatest high school to the pros player of all time, and I personally don't even think it's close. LeBron will likely surpass Moses, but Kobe has not and will not in my eyes.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
          Jordan
          Wilt Chamberlain
          Bill Russell
          Kareem
          Magic

          Bird
          Oscar Robertson
          Jerry West
          Kobe
          James

          I have Kobe 9th overall but 4th on the Lakers..... Kobe suffers from being much like Michael Jordan.... ...
          That's a pretty good list. Kobe in top 10 is about right.

          I think LeBron is better than Kobe and right there with Bird and Magic. LeBron is a better basketball player than Kobe. He's not as skilled as Bird and Magic though, which I think matters a bit more than physical ability. In terms of strength, speed, etc., he's a smaller version of Chamberlain.

          Michael Jordan was unstoppable. He was unstoppable whether he had Pippen on the floor or not. Kukoc wasn't that great and wasn't there much of the time. Rodman came late, although he made it impossible to beat the Bulls. The Bulls could have won 8 or 9 straight championships in the modern era if they wanted to do it. MJ was unstoppable when a typical foul by Charles Oakley might mean broken ribs. He was the greatest competitor and the most effective and amazing basketball player of all time IMO.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

            Controversial opinion alert: Wilt Chamberlain is overrated. In interest of full-disclosure, I never saw the man play - way before my time (like, I presume many others in this thread). I would merely suggest that had he played in an era with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, even a guy like Ewing, many of these All-Time Greatest lists might look very different. He was a 7'2 giant playing in an era when the average height of a starting center was 6'7. Also, any list with Russell over Wilt is nonsensical. I understand the argument that Russell played on vastly superior teams, but 9 championships to 2 pretty much speaks for itself.

            Maybe one of the old-timers on here can set me straight, because I just don't get Wilt being a top 5 player all time.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

              Originally posted by Eddie Gill View Post
              Controversial opinion alert: Wilt Chamberlain is overrated. In interest of full-disclosure, I never saw the man play - way before my time (like, I presume many others in this thread). I would merely suggest that had he played in an era with Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, even a guy like Ewing, many of these All-Time Greatest lists might look very different. He was a 7'2 giant playing in an era when the average height of a starting center was 6'7. Also, any list with Russell over Wilt is nonsensical. I understand the argument that Russell played on vastly superior teams, but 9 championships to 2 pretty much speaks for itself.

              Maybe one of the old-timers on here can set me straight, because I just don't get Wilt being a top 5 player all time.
              You can go on Youtube and see Chamberlain. I saw him in the early 70's and believe he was clearly better than Kareem. A lot more physical and athletic. He was like a bigger and much more skilled Dwight Howard. If he played in the 90's during the big man era, he would totally dominate Ewing. He would be better than the other centers with Hakeem, Kareem and a young Shaq coming in 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

              Edit: people who never saw Wilt play may not realize how mobile he was. Ewing was nowhere near his level. Imagine LeBron James with about 5 more inches. No, not quite that mobile. But he was a track star before he played basketball and was extremely athletic.
              Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-06-2012, 09:28 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                Kobe will probably be in my top 10...probably. But not in my top 5. Yeah his numbers were great. He had a lot of those big moments. He's competitive and has one of the best work ethic and dedication since the draftees of the 80s. Has 5 rings. Has an MVP and 2 finals MVPs (don't remember about all-star games).

                But on his first 3 championships he wasn't even the best player. On the last 2 championship runs I can even argue that he's just a bit better than Pau Gasol. And he only won one MVP for a reason. His best was always below Duncan's, KG's, Shaq's Lebrons, even Kidd's (even though he didn't win one MVP) and Nash. His scoring prowess will always be one of the best we have ever seen, but he was not even the best player for most of the time in the league.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                  Once you get past Wilt, Oscar and Jordan, the next 20-25 are pretty equal. Kobe is in that group.
                  Go Pacers!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                    It's amazing what likeability can do for a player in these rankings.

                    And MJ ought to feel lucky he didn't play in this era for that reason.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                      Originally posted by Sookie View Post

                      And MJ ought to feel lucky he didn't play in this era for that reason.
                      Please. No hand checking? MJ would have a field day with the likes of every defender in this league.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                        Kobe is the ultimate hero ball player. Yes he is amazingly talented, but he has made so many bad decisions over the course of his career. I never want him to touch the ball in the last 2 minutes of a game and with good reason. He won many games in the last few minutes for the Lakers, yet I always think that maybe he wouldn't have needed to if he had just played better before the end.

                        He is the epitome of a player you do not want your kid to emulate on offense. You wish your kid had his skills and repertoire, but wish he wasn't so dumb half the time. He just happens to make it work half of the time because he is Kobe.

                        There are so many variables to judging players; teammates he played with, era, position, his #s vs team wins. Ultimately, as long as he is in the top 20 or so, I don't see the point of arguing over a few places because people have different criteria to judge.

                        The only thing I want to say is that Lebron is the most talented player I have ever seen. Maybe not the "best" if you judge that by rings or something else. I didn't see a lot of older players since I am young, yet I know if I had to start a team with someone in their prime I would pick Lebron 10 times out of 10. That is me personally, but that is the only thing I am sure about as far as ranking players in my mind.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                          You guys make it sound as if the best players didn't have superstars surrounding them :/. No one has ever won solo

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                            I never really saw Magic and Bird play in their primes. Kobe is the second best I have ever seen, behind MJ. I put him above all the great 90's superstars Malone/Barkley/Ewing/Stockton etc.

                            The one guy I have way up on lists, higher than most, is Hakeem. I could watch Hakeem play all day. My all time favorite guy to watch other than Reginald.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                              Originally posted by immortality View Post
                              You guys make it sound as if the best players didn't have superstars surrounding them :/. No one has ever won solo
                              Please tell me who is a top 30 player on the mavs roster when they won a title.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Where do you rate Kobe all time?

                                Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                                Try this list on for size. I don't have Kobe in the top-10, and I don't necessarily see James making the top-ten either. Neither of them were centers, and there are already too many non-C's on this list for my taste...

                                1. Wilt
                                2. Oscar
                                3. Magic
                                4. Bird
                                5. Russell
                                6. Jordan
                                7. Shaq
                                8. Kareem
                                9. Duncan
                                10. Olajuwan
                                sixth.... wow
                                STARBURY

                                08 and Beyond

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X