Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

[OakMoses]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Less talented teams than the Pacers (8):

New Jersey
Washington (-Arenas)
Charlotte
Memphis
OKC
Minnesota
Golden State
Sacramento

Teams on par with the Pacers (6):

Toronto
New York
Chicago
Milwaukee
Miami
LA Clippers

I don't feel like explaining every choice. That's just a first blush impression of who we should be better than and who we should be competitive with. This places us firmly in the bottom half of the league talent wise, even if you think we're better than all of my 'on par' teams.

The interesting question to me is, if and when Dunleavy comes back, does he make us demonstrably more talented than the teams on my second list? I like Dun a lot, but I don't quite know how to answer that question.

What's more, I firmly believe that once Dun gets back, this year's team is more talented than last year's. The fact that we made a playoff push with Diener and Murray as our PG's is all I need to know that O'Brien is a good coach.

[Anthem]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

We were able to sign-and-trade for Al with the exception we got after trading Peja.

And a #11 pick.

[Skaut_Ech]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

If you just average our talent out, I think we do pretty well as we have quite a few really solid players. Our problem is that we only have one very good-to-great starter (Granger). That wont come close to getting the job done.

I kept writing and re-writing responses, but Quis basically summed it up, to me. I think we ARE in the bottom five talent-wise. We have almost an entire roster of mediocre, but amenable to being coached, players. NO glaring weaknesses. No overt strengths. (Danny and TJ excluded.) We're kinf of a blank slate.

I think of teams less talented than us like the Kings (Too raw, with wierd age disparities from starters to bench guys), OKLA (Self explanatory), Miami (Are they a little like us? Just sub Wade and Marion for TJ and Granger as impact players.)..Bobcats...Minnesota..Washington and I see a collection of players.

At least with us, I see the pieces in place. We just need to plop that one superstar in training in the midst. We need to pluck another Jermaine off someone's bench. Or draft another Reggie Or Kellogg. I thin our table is set. We have players with pretty clearly defined abilities. We just need a stud (other than Danny) to build them around.

I'm of the same mindset as Bill S. Insert a powerful PF presence and I think this team really takes off. I haven't sweated this season becasue I see the pieces in place. I think a lot is contingent on Roy's development and us getting a bruiser of some type. Not that he's a bruiser, but I wonder how an Amir Johnson type would perk this squad up.

I personally hpe we don't win too much. That would set the table for TPTB to not have as strong a sense of urgency on making further deals.

Let's create a well rounded squad of coachable players, showcase everone...and wait to triger that truly a deal for that truly complimentary player who'll help bump us to the next level.

[Anthem]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Let's create a well rounded squad of coachable players, showcase everone...and wait to triger that truly a deal for that truly complimentary player who'll help bump us to the next level.

The Boston strategy.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

No way are we that high if we have to think of Rush and Hibbert as rookies making a difficult transition. Bottom-five is too generous.

[owl]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Pacers have a better record than 7 other teams in the league, so they are not bottom
five. The Pacer's record is who they are and that is not very good and a lottery team.
With Dunleavy healthy they would be in the playoffs. But he is not thus you see the results.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Pacers have a better record than 7 other teams in the league, so they are not bottom
five. The Pacer's record is who they are and that is not very good and a lottery team.
With Dunleavy healthy they would be in the playoffs. But he is not thus you see the results.

Considering the Pacers have had one of the most difficult schedules in the league...they are playing at a level that is closer to average than the bottom of the league.

Maybe they do have a low talent level and maybe they do overachieve a little, but I think that view comes more from watching a bunch of sour puss players over the last 4 years. We are simply not used to watching all the players give 100% effort. They are probably lower on the talent scale than all but 7 or 8 teams would be my guess.

[jeffg-body]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

I just don't see us in the bottom five. To base it off of talent we have to look at our injured guys as well and envision them as healthy. Our PG's are not bottom five talent, when Dun is there our 2 guard spot is not lower talented, put Danny at the three and there's no question, put Murph in the four and he's not a bottom feeder but he is not an all-star either. Add Rasho at the 5 spot and he's in the mid pack of centers in the league. Our bench is a bit of a different story. We are a bit thin in the bench, but as our rooks get more experienced the bench talent level will rise by the end of the season.

Add to the fact that these guys are new to each other for the most part and they just need time to gel. I have already chalked up this year as the year to get them to gel and come together as a team. So that is not really a talent issue, but more a team issue.

[Robertmto]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

I think Pacers are more talented than the Raps.

Ford > Calderon

the entire Raptors organization disagrees

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Our PG's are not bottom five talent,

Bottom ten then? Somewhere around there - certainly not in the top 15.

when Dun is there our 2 guard spot is not lower talented,

Since when do we like Dunn at SG? I like Dunleavy as a player, but I cringe when he's playing SG.

put Danny at the three and there's no question,

He's top-15, and maybe top-10, and he's improving. Have two top-15 SFs is not the greatest of rebuilding strategies, unless one of these guys will be happy as the sixth man next year when Rush is ready to be a full-time starter (hopefully Dunleavy welcomes that role.)

put Murph in the four and he's not a bottom feeder but he is not an all-star either.

He might be top-twenty. But probably not. He might be between 20 and 25, but only under Jim O'Brien. I don't think there are many coaches in the NBA that would start Murphy.

Add Rasho at the 5 spot and he's in the mid pack of centers in the league.

Now, I like the idea of having Rasho around to teach Roy. Rasho has fundamentals and a head for the game, and he plays the right way. But he was barely a top-15 center in his prime.

[Mr. Sobchak]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Bottom ten then? Somewhere around there - certainly not in the top 15.

Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.

[NapTonius Monk]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Since when do we like Dunn at SG? I like Dunleavy as a player, but I cringe when he's playing SG.

Explain this please. What do you hate about Dun playing 2?

[imawhat]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.

You're debating with someone who admittedly doesn't watch TJ play. Save your efforts.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Explain this please. What do you hate about Dun playing 2?

Too tall. Too slow. Especially on the defensive end. He's a natural SF, so it works okay on the wing offensively but I don't like the Granger/ Dunleavy tandem at the other end of the court. My take is that one of the two of them will have a big game, but its much less common for both of them to have a big game at the same time because they are too similar.

[Jay@Section12]

Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.

You're debating with someone who admittedly doesn't watch TJ play. Save your efforts.

TJ Ford's game is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I just can't stand to watch him use his quickness to drive into trouble where he's too small to find either an open man or a decent shot. The one semi-advantage he's got (quickness in the open court ) turns into his #1 weakness (quickness in the half court). If I were defending him, I'd crowd the ball and prompt him to drive into the heart of the defense every time, because he rarely makes good plays happen in that situation.

If he ever learns to stay out of the paint against a regular half-court defense, that would be better. Of course, I don't know what he'd do... just pass the ball along the perimeter I guess and any number of NBA PGs could do that.

I can name 40 or 50 PGs I'd rather have starting. Including Jack and Tinsley. (There, I said it.)

I'm okay with Jack as the backup.