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Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

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  • #1

    Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

    The entire game was defined by one play, I'm pretty sure it was in the 3rd quarter. Reggie Miller had the ball running what looked like a 4 on 2 fast break which should have at worst come away with a foul.

    But while dribbling Reggie pulls up at the three point line, the big problem with that? So did the other three players. Fred Jones, Stephen Jackson & James Jones all pulled up & stopped at the three point line. While L.A. regouped & caught up with numbers.

    I will die wondering why our team, especially Reggie, is always so willing to just heave up three pointers.

    I don't know exactly how many we shot last night, but it was way to many.

    Why we did not drive the ball & cram it down their throats every play I will never know. Who on their team were we afraid of? I realize you are not always going to get up a shot in traffic but the three is much more effectivem, not to mention open, if you collapse the defense.

    On defense we had stretches where I thought we played great & then on other occasions where I thought we struggled. But again we lost the game on the offensive end of the court because we could not/would not execute any play that didn't start with looking for a three.

    Yes, I know we have no post up player. But you don't have to have a post up offense to just not take three's. Ball movement & player movement & CUTTING to the basket will sometimes make up for a lack of a post up game.

    I thought Fred did well in his second attempt at the p.g. spot. I want to see him play this some more this season to maybe look at this as something for future player movements. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have Jamaal, but I am getting awfully tired of him not playing. Yes, yes I know I'm an @ss because his foot is hurt. But how many games has the guy missed this season? They keep talking like he was injured on 1/31 & has been missing since. When in reality, yes he was injured then, but wasn't he missing like 2-3 weeks prior to that with a resp. infection & before that with his ankles (or something).

    You can be Michael Jordan but if you can't play over half the games a year you are of no use to the team.

    If Fred can prove he can hold down the spot, Jamaal may be expendable. I'm saying this & I'm the one who said he was the best p.g. in the NBA. But this is getting old.

    I thought Jackson played a little selfish last night. Maybe he needs to? I don't know, it's not my preferance but that may be his mandate at this time.

    I've given Reggie the promise of no complaining since he is retireing & in that mode let me say that Reggie had on nice shoes.

    Dale was great again. But listening to me talk about Dale is worse than listening to U.B. talk about Artest, so feel free to overlook this. But I thought when he was on the floor he made the team look totally differant from the defensive end. He is going to have to go back to getting about 10 ppg. again as well I think if we have any hope of making anything of this season.

    Jeff did good while he played. I'm not certain as to why he didn't play a little more in the second half, but I think they were just looking for any kind of offense they could get & Dale is already showing even at his advanced age that he is capable of manning the entire middle on defense better than anybody we have. But don't take that as a slam at Jeff, he did fine. I thought he did decent vs. Odom.

    Cro played ok. Nothing great but nothing horrid either other than his hair & his dribbling (My God is he getting worse at dribbling as he gets older or is it just my imaination)

    James Jones provided a warm body. He did decent on defense but we need more Offense from our small forward spot.

    A.J. did ok, for a backup two guard.

    Gill was non-consequintal & that's not really a good thing.

    Harrison at least didn't foul out.

    Pollard didn't really distinguish himself in any way.

    At the end of the day we had a guy who just signed with the team less than 4 days ago, a small forward who should be the backup shooting guard, a shooting guard who is getting legacy starts, a point guard who should be the backup to the backup shooting guard starting for us. Do you really think we have many chances with this? You can win but you almost have to play error free ball & you cannot dig a hole, which we often do.

    The season is not over, but the red lights better be flashing because as of now we are out of the playoffs. Because a tie with Philly is really a loss because they own the season series vs. us

    BTW, am I the only one p!ssed that there is some super top seceret deal with Jamaal's injury? Why won't the Pacers or Jamaal just come out & say what it is? Why the big seceret?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

    I've been trying to tell my son, who has become quite the Pacer fan this season, not to get to distraught over the loosing. He's kindda funny. If the Pacers fall behind by more than 2 or 3 points he goes off the deep end.

    I've explained to him that we are missing Artest as well as Tinsley & now JO, his favorite, out that the Pacers might be able to compete but winning every game simply is not going to happen.

    Having so many players playing out of position also hasn't helped.

    Peck, I think Tinsley is going thru the same thing Gasol is for Memphis. They simply didn't make the right call when they diagnosed the problem with their feet. After seeing what Tinsley tried to do in the playoffs last year I am willing to give him a little room on this one. I think he is aware that the team needs him if they have any kind of shot at the playoffs. My guess is, if he could be out there, he would. Please don't think every player is like Bender.

    Without JO & Tinsley we won't make the playoffs.

    So guys, try not to be too upset when we loose. I try to focus in on the growth of the players we have on the court, knowing that in the coming years we will be reaping what we are sowing.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

      Originally posted by Jose Slaughter
      I've been trying to tell my son, who has become quite the Pacer fan this season, not to get to distraught over the loosing. He's kindda funny. If the Pacers fall behind by more than 2 or 3 points he goes off the deep end.

      I've explained to him that we are missing Artest as well as Tinsley & now JO, his favorite, out that the Pacers might be able to compete but winning every game simply is not going to happen.

      Having so many players playing out of position also hasn't helped.

      Peck, I think Tinsley is going thru the same thing Gasol is for Memphis. They simply didn't make the right call when they diagnosed the problem with their feet. After seeing what Tinsley tried to do in the playoffs last year I am willing to give him a little room on this one. I think he is aware that the team needs him if they have any kind of shot at the playoffs. My guess is, if he could be out there, he would. Please don't think every player is like Bender.

      Without JO & Tinsley we won't make the playoffs.

      So guys, try not to be too upset when we loose. I try to focus in on the growth of the players we have on the court, knowing that in the coming years we will be reaping what we are sowing.
      Oh, I'm sure he is hurt. You could tell by when he was trying to play he was hurt. At least he tried.

      But honestly doesn't it get a little old with the same players year after year? Everbody kept griping about Brad & his end of the season injury's (which I might add he has again) but is Jamaal really any better?

      The foot is obvious, but God it seems to me that he has missed more games than Jermaine, including the suspension & it seems like he has these things every year.

      I guess I just got really spoiled by most of those guys in the 90's who played through pain that to have players sit out weeks at a time is just odd to me.

      I know I know it's not their fault, it's just been a bad season.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

        Peck, I agree with your post. The sad thing is Dale Davis who just signed is probably the Pacers 3rd best player who is currently available to play.

        I'm getting tired of all the 3 pointers also, and they tried to post up Jax a little and tried to get Fred to drive more, but seemed to me the Lakers defense was really packing it in. They did not defend the 3 pt line very well at all, Pacers had tons of wide open shots, but they could not hit very many.

        Glad you were the one who mentioend that Brad is injured again, although I have no idea what the injury is.

        Since you thought Jeff did OK, I need to say that I thought he played a poor game, ever since his back injury I don't think he's looked good at all. But I suppose my expectations are higher than yours.


        I just hate not having any inside offensive game

        Peck, that play drove me crazy too, looked like the Pacers had a fast break and next thing all of a sudden everything stopped at the three point line

        We all need to face the facts this current team will struggle to be .500.

        Your point about Jax is a good one, yes he was selfish and yet he can hit tough shots and last night it was not like anyone else was hitting anything. Jax reminds me so much of Jalen, extremely streaky and can get a decent shot anytime he wants, and when he is on a roll, he is almost unstoppable because of his size.

        I do have worries about how Artest and Jax will play together, they both like to have the ball and they like to take a lot of shots.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

          Originally posted by Unclebuck

          I do have worries about how Artest and Jax will play together, they both like to have the ball and they like to take a lot of shots.
          I've thought the exact same thing. I'm sure Pacer mgmnt has had the same thoughts. It will be interesting to see how they handle it. It wouldn't shock me if one or the other was moved in the off-season.

          There's probably a list somewhere in the Pacers' office of Pros and Cons of trading Artest. On the Cons side is the item that says "He's our best player", "We went from a great team to an average team without him", things like that.

          On the Pros side, there are things like "He has high trade value", "He has been very unstable", "He wants the ball too much and might be incompatible with SJax on the floor".

          It will make for a most interesting off-season.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

            It was never meant to be the two of them in a starting line-up and it will not occur next year.
            I anything is proven (IMO) it is that Jax is not starter material on a full fit Pacers team.

            (BTW as for Brad injury :
            Kings' players hurting

            Brad Miller and Cuttino Mobley missed the Kings' game against Detroit because of injuries.

            Miller, averaging 15.6 points, 9.3 rebounds and 3.9 assists this season, sat out his fourth straight game with a bruised right calf. His absence left 6-9 Brian Skinner as the Kings' starting center.

            Mobley, who has a lower back strain, has averaged 17.8 points per game since joining the Kings in January. Maurice Evans replaced him in the starting lineup.
            back to Jax, he was meant ot come of the bench, and I still think that is where he fits best, it means that he has no "rights" to as many shots he takes now, if Reggie indeed retires then chances are Fred moves into tweener PG/SG whlie JT will be the main PG.
            Putting 5 players on the floor of as our starters next year, assuming Ron stays will e an interesting feat:

            JO/Ron/Mel are sure starters, with Reggie out, who replaces him and for the bonus question: who do we start at C: Hulk, Polly, Jeff, Cro, DD (who has proven his value beyond a doubt already) ?

            for SG, Jax, Freddie, JJ, AJ are all candidates.

            mixing tjhe starting 5 with the bench will be the hardest job next year, providing no changes.
            So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

            If you've done 6 impossible things today?
            Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

              I agree that it would probably be better for Jax to come off the bench, although I would expect Jax and Ron to be on the floor at the end of games. But to have Jax as the main scorer with the second unit would be the best idea. However who starts at the shooting guard?



              Roy, not sure you meant it the way I am taking it, but here is what you posted.

              ......."On the Pros side, there are things like "He has high trade value", "He has been very unstable", "He wants the ball too much and might be incompatible with SJax on the floor"......


              Did you mean to post that Artest has high trade value? I could be wrong but I think Ron's trade value has started to rise and will be high this summer. Not as high as it should be, but I think many teams will try to get him.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                Brad Miller has a bruised right calf. If that is anything like the 'bruises' the Pacers have suffered it could be a career ending injury.

                Peck... excellent point about what seems to be a double standard for some Pacer fans (and management).
                Brad Miller: "Can't stay healthy. Good riddance"
                Jaamal Tinsley "We need him back on the court in the worst way!"
                Jonathon Bender "We just need to give him more time to heal. He'll be unstoppable... one of these days"
                Yadda Yadda Yadda...

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck

                  Roy, not sure you meant it the way I am taking it, but here is what you posted.

                  ......."On the Pros side, there are things like "He has high trade value", "He has been very unstable", "He wants the ball too much and might be incompatible with SJax on the floor"......


                  Did you mean to post that Artest has high trade value? I could be wrong but I think Ron's trade value has started to rise and will be high this summer. Not as high as it should be, but I think many teams will try to get him.
                  Yes, I meant to say Artest has high trade value. I think that GMs around the league see how far the Pacers have fallen without him. I imagine that more than one of them would be thinking..."gee, if he's the difference between the Pacers going 41-41 and 61-21, just think what he could do for OUR team...".

                  I think that if the Pacers shop him this summer he will attract more attention than he did last summer.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                    Originally posted by Peck
                    The entire game was defined by one play, I'm pretty sure it was in the 3rd quarter. Reggie Miller had the ball running what looked like a 4 on 2 fast break which should have at worst come away with a foul.

                    But while dribbling Reggie pulls up at the three point line, the big problem with that? So did the other three players. Fred Jones, Stephen Jackson & James Jones all pulled up & stopped at the three point line. While L.A. regouped & caught up with numbers.

                    I will die wondering why our team, especially Reggie, is always so willing to just heave up three pointers.

                    I don't know exactly how many we shot last night, but it was way to many.

                    Why we did not drive the ball & cram it down their throats every play I will never know. Who on their team were we afraid of? I realize you are not always going to get up a shot in traffic but the three is much more effectivem, not to mention open, if you collapse the defense.

                    On defense we had stretches where I thought we played great & then on other occasions where I thought we struggled. But again we lost the game on the offensive end of the court because we could not/would not execute any play that didn't start with looking for a three.

                    Yes, I know we have no post up player. But you don't have to have a post up offense to just not take three's. Ball movement & player movement & CUTTING to the basket will sometimes make up for a lack of a post up game.

                    I thought Fred did well in his second attempt at the p.g. spot. I want to see him play this some more this season to maybe look at this as something for future player movements. I'm not saying I wouldn't rather have Jamaal, but I am getting awfully tired of him not playing. Yes, yes I know I'm an @ss because his foot is hurt. But how many games has the guy missed this season? They keep talking like he was injured on 1/31 & has been missing since. When in reality, yes he was injured then, but wasn't he missing like 2-3 weeks prior to that with a resp. infection & before that with his ankles (or something).

                    You can be Michael Jordan but if you can't play over half the games a year you are of no use to the team.

                    If Fred can prove he can hold down the spot, Jamaal may be expendable. I'm saying this & I'm the one who said he was the best p.g. in the NBA. But this is getting old.

                    I thought Jackson played a little selfish last night. Maybe he needs to? I don't know, it's not my preferance but that may be his mandate at this time.

                    I've given Reggie the promise of no complaining since he is retireing & in that mode let me say that Reggie had on nice shoes.

                    Dale was great again. But listening to me talk about Dale is worse than listening to U.B. talk about Artest, so feel free to overlook this. But I thought when he was on the floor he made the team look totally differant from the defensive end. He is going to have to go back to getting about 10 ppg. again as well I think if we have any hope of making anything of this season.

                    Jeff did good while he played. I'm not certain as to why he didn't play a little more in the second half, but I think they were just looking for any kind of offense they could get & Dale is already showing even at his advanced age that he is capable of manning the entire middle on defense better than anybody we have. But don't take that as a slam at Jeff, he did fine. I thought he did decent vs. Odom.

                    Cro played ok. Nothing great but nothing horrid either other than his hair & his dribbling (My God is he getting worse at dribbling as he gets older or is it just my imaination)

                    James Jones provided a warm body. He did decent on defense but we need more Offense from our small forward spot.

                    A.J. did ok, for a backup two guard.

                    Gill was non-consequintal & that's not really a good thing.

                    Harrison at least didn't foul out.

                    Pollard didn't really distinguish himself in any way.

                    At the end of the day we had a guy who just signed with the team less than 4 days ago, a small forward who should be the backup shooting guard, a shooting guard who is getting legacy starts, a point guard who should be the backup to the backup shooting guard starting for us. Do you really think we have many chances with this? You can win but you almost have to play error free ball & you cannot dig a hole, which we often do.

                    The season is not over, but the red lights better be flashing because as of now we are out of the playoffs. Because a tie with Philly is really a loss because they own the season series vs. us

                    BTW, am I the only one p!ssed that there is some super top seceret deal with Jamaal's injury? Why won't the Pacers or Jamaal just come out & say what it is? Why the big seceret?

                    you are incredibly impatient to even CONSIDER dumping Jamaal at this point.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                      Originally posted by Roy Munson
                      Yes, I meant to say Artest has high trade value. I think that GMs around the league see how far the Pacers have fallen without him. I imagine that more than one of them would be thinking..."gee, if he's the difference between the Pacers going 41-41 and 61-21, just think what he could do for OUR team...".

                      I think that if the Pacers shop him this summer he will attract more attention than he did last summer.

                      No GM would be uh, silly enough to think that was the ONLY difference between last year and this.
                      Only Pacers fans...........

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                        Originally posted by Bball
                        Brad Miller has a bruised right calf. If that is anything like the 'bruises' the Pacers have suffered it could be a career ending injury.

                        Peck... excellent point about what seems to be a double standard for some Pacer fans (and management).
                        Brad Miller: "Can't stay healthy. Good riddance"
                        Jaamal Tinsley "We need him back on the court in the worst way!"
                        Jonathon Bender "We just need to give him more time to heal. He'll be unstoppable... one of these days"
                        Yadda Yadda Yadda...

                        -Bball
                        Brad's injury, what can one say, we nearing the end of the season, it's time.
                        JB, not a far comparison, one way or the other, no one EVER considered it to be something that would go so badly wrong.
                        Mel? Brad? different stratosphere if you want to compare money on the contracts, hardly a decent comparison.

                        But since we are willing to dump all players injured, more or less frequently, does this mean we keep Ron? oh no I forgot, he's mentally injured.

                        SO if I understand your sentiments correct: trade Mel, Ron, JO, JB, anyone else ?

                        That's a decent starting 4 you're throwing to the pack there, wouldn't surprise me one bit if they were the anchor (at least 3 of them) to a championship team
                        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                          Do you guys think that any of you could survive an 82 game NBA season without being injured? Do you WATCH what goes on?
                          It's a miracle that ANY player that plays 30 minutes a game makes it through a whole season uninjured.
                          Have we been unlucky lately?
                          Yep
                          So what. Injuries, including season ending ones, are part of the game. LOTS of teams have lost shots at the title because a key player was lost. It's not new.
                          It's not just us.
                          Get over it.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                            Originally posted by able
                            SO if I understand your sentiments correct: trade Mel, Ron, JO, JB, anyone else ?
                            My sentiments were pointing out the double standard that you have so 'abley' demonstrated.

                            Brad's injury, what can one say, we nearing the end of the season, it's time.
                            JB, not a far comparison, one way or the other, no one EVER considered it to be something that would go so badly wrong.
                            Mel? Brad? different stratosphere if you want to compare money on the contracts, hardly a decent comparison.
                            You have just covered the double standard in a nutshell.

                            -Bball
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Just some quick thoughts on the Lakers game

                              Originally posted by Bball
                              My sentiments were pointing out the double standard that you have so 'abley' demonstrated.



                              You have just covered the double standard in a nutshell.

                              -Bball
                              Where on earth is the double standard between a contract worth 30 million dollars and one worth 80 million dollars?
                              Thats no double standard that's economy.
                              Do you really think anyone would have given JB an extension the size he had if they had foreseen this debacle, no way.

                              If you fail to see the difference between what Mel makes and what Brad makes, while both being indispendable and injury prone, then please let me have 10% of the difference and I will kow tow to your wisdom every day
                              So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                              If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                              Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                              Comment

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