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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

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"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

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  • #1

    Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

    Hey guys, I was listening to Sirius XM's NBA radio station and they spent a good chunk of the afternoon discussing SI.com's Top 100 NBA players of 2015. I thought it would be fun for us to do sort of a roundtable discussion on who we thought would be the 20 best players in the league this year, based on whatever criteria each of us believes would determine such a list.


    I'll start out with mine. Here is how I frame what makes someone rank highly on my list, in order:
    • Importance on his team/how much he "carries the load" (also factoring in durability and reliability)
    • Dynamicism (does he have one or two elite skills that he uses to take over games?)
    • All-around skillset (less important than the first two: James Harden is better than Nicolas Batum, even though Batum is streets ahead of Harden as a defender and is a very capable offensive player in his own right)




    So here's my list:


    1. LeBron James - No-brainer.
    2. Kevin Durant - Also a no-brainer.
    3. Anthony Davis - Oh baby! After the top two this thing is wide open. To a degree, 3-10 or 3-12 are all pretty interchangeable. Davis is here because he is probably the second-most complete all-around player in the league after LeBron, though he is considerably less polished. I'd guess two or three years from now, he'll be the most valuable two-way player in the league.
    4. Joakim Noah - I was really close to putting Joakim at #3 because he was so damn good in the face of adversity last season. It's crazy to think that a guy can be, at one time, the best rebounder, passer, shot blocker, post scorer, post defender, clutch player and highest energy player on a team, especially when the team is dealt a huge blow of an injury when Derrick Rose went down. I've always been a big fan of his, but even I wouldn't have believed what he did during the regular season last year if I wouldn't have seen it. I hope, for his sake, he's able to shoulder a little less of the burden on the team with Rose coming back and the acquisition of Pau Gasol.
    5. Blake Griffin - I think the general perception is that Chris Paul is the best player on the Clippers, but I think last year showed that Blake might be a more vital cog in their system. He did a great job carrying the team during Chris Paul's absence last year and as a prototypical power forward, he is a player almost without flaws. He could be a much better shot-blocker considering his athleticism, and his range is pretty limited, but he makes up for that by finishing well inside and taking a lot of his shots (about 40%) at the rim. Really durable and plays with energy every night.
    6. Dwight Howard - The flaws here are obvious. FT%, inability to finish inside, limited shooting range, turnovers, apparent unwillingness to play to his strengths (pick-and-roll finisher vs. posting up). His impact everywhere else is still pretty stout. He's noticeably slower and less athletic since his back surgery, so his shot-blocking and rebounding percentages and totals have both dropped to their lowest levels since about his sophomore season, but he is still head-and-shoulders above the other centers in the league. He was a much bigger factor in Houston's success than he was given credit for, and a bigger factor than Harden for sure.
    7. Russell Westbrook - He's the most dynamic, explosive point guard in the league. I really hope that he eventually gets his own team so we can see what he could do as the undisputed #1 option on his team. I actually think, some of the time, he flat-out looks more confident and composed than Durant does and plays with a little more killer instinct. He just doesn't have the same skillset (especially in terms of efficiency) and size that Durant does.
    8. Steph Curry - The best shooter in the league, and he averages 8.5 APG? Wow. And I don't think we'll ever see another off-the-dribble shooter as good as Curry.
    9. Chris Paul - He'd be much higher if he could stay healthy. In nine seasons, he has played 75+ games only five times (including playing 60/66 games in 11-12). That, combined with his strange lack of playoff success (three series wins) makes me think that he's a little overrated. When he's healthy and fully engaged, I think he's one of the four or five best PGs ever. But I see too many close games that he loses focus in the 4th quarter and shoots his teams out of it.
    10. Kevin Love - I probably like Kevin Love's game more than anyone else on this board because I've watched almost every one of his games. He's not as good a shooter as Dirk was in his prime (or today) but he's close. And he's a better rebounder and passer. I think he's going to be a great fit next to LeBron, even if his raw statistical production drops. He's going to be feasting off open looks from LeBron and Kyrie Irving and will be a little less exposed defensively with better teammates. I expect him to get close to that 50%/40% mark, though his FT% won't ever be that close to 90. If he adjusts to being the #2/2a option offensively and devotes his extra energy to crash the boards even harder, I think he could be All-NBA first team next season. For his sake I hope he wins a couple of championships but for our sake I hope that's a few years in the future.
    11. Dirk Nowitzki - No superstar scorer in NBA history has ever played within himself the way Dirk does. Never takes bad shots. Never fails to make the right pass out of double teams. Best mid-range shooter in the league and it isn't even close (maybe the best in history). Only this low because he isn't much of a rebounder anymore and doesn't defend very well outside of the post and on drives, mostly due to age/lack of lateral quickness rather than lack of effort/awareness.
    12. LaMarcus Aldridge - I don't have a lot to say about Aldridge, though I really admire him as a player. I guess I'd say that the best way to describe him would be he is 85% of the offensive player that Dirk is and about 75% of the defensive player that Dwight Howard is. He obviously carried the overachieving Blazers to the second round of the playoffs last season in a brutal Western Conference, but I think that had a lot more to do with what James Harden didn't do than what Aldridge did (LMA was great for the first two games, good in game four, and horrible in the other three games).
    13. Chris Bosh - I give Bosh a lot of credit for his play over the past four seasons with Miami. He made an incredible individual sacrifice and really accepted his role as the third offensive option, even though I think he's been better than Wade for at least three years. He almost seamlessly went from a 24/11 guy to a 16/7 guy, and totally transformed his offensive game in the process. I expect him to get right back to that 20/10 range next year and to carry what is an otherwise awful Miami Heat team to a top 4 seed in the East. If he does that, it will be almost unprecedented and I hope that gets the appreciation that it deserves.
    14. Carmelo Anthony - I ripped Melo pretty aggressively over these past couple of years over his failure to make his teammates better on the Knicks, but after some reflection I think I've been a little too hard on him. Last season was probably the best all-around season of his career, despite his total lack of support from his teammates. The defensive awareness on the Knicks was laughable last season, but he's a very solid man-to-man defender on the perimeter and post. I think the whole Skip Bayless "make your teammates better" argument is a little ignorant when regarding what is the ultimate team sport: if you don't have the horses in the top and middle of your roster, you just can't win. I don't know if the Knicks are even a playoff team this season (probably are with Indiana likely dropping out of the picture) but I expect Melo will have another great individual season.
    15. Marc Gasol - He's the best defensive center in the league. Also a very good offensive player, though he doesn't seem to have the mindset of a consistent offensive centerpiece. He fills his role extremely well offensively, and the Grizzlies are almost immeasurably better on both ends of the floor when he's playing. I don't know if the Grizzlies are a playoff lock this year, but Gasol, if healthy, will be a dominator again.
    16. Al Jefferson - I was a strong advocate against the Mavs going after Al a couple of years ago when he was a free agent, mostly due to his lack of fit next to Dirk, but he was fantastic for the Bobcats last season. Really took over as a leader in the locker room and on offense. He'll never be a shotblocker, but as a big man he gives you just about everything else. Bullies opponents on the block and seems to have a decent faceup game as well. I don't know if he will ever be the best player on a contender (because he's not a defensive anchor as a center and is too big to play PF in today's game) but he can be the best- or second-best player on a second tier team for sure. I'm a little bummed that McRoberts left for Miami because I thought those two complemented each other really well, but Al is the kind of guy you can build almost any sort of offense around.
    17. Tim Duncan - I never really know where to rank Duncan and Parker because those two have always had arguably the best coach in the league and are usually part of the most well-built roster. I tend to think that he isn't a top-20 player anymore but when I really sit down and try to list 20 guys that are better, I can't do it. Maybe it's kind of a lifetime achievement award, but this spot just seems right.
    18. DeMarcus Cousins - This is kind of funny... I didn't realize it until I was checking over this list a second time but having old-*** Duncan and not-yet-in-his-prime DMC right next to each other makes a lot of sense. In terms of raw offensive ability and overall statistics, DMC is a lot like prime Duncan with worse shot selection. But after that, you look at the off the court stuff, the lack of composure on the court, and his lack of career success, and the two guys couldn't be any more different. I was a big supporter in trying to trade for Cousins a couple of years ago when he was rumored to be on the block, but with his quality of play and the huge contract extension, he just isn't available anymore. He seems like the sort of guy that could be a top-5 player if he had the right coach and organization around him, but the reality is that he is currently part of one of the most dysfunctional franchises of the past decade. I really hope he eventually has the right coaching staff and supporting teammates so we can kind of find out how good he can be.
    19. Kyle Lowry - I'm skeptical of him because he's had so many nondescript seasons, but if he can play at the level he did last year again, the Raptors probably got a huge steal in free agency. I love his defensive effort and his desire to lead as an offensive player, but I do think that he could play a little smarter at times with his defensive gambles and shot selection. If he could shore that stuff up he'd be right up there in the conversation for the best two-way PG in the league.
    20. James Harden - I didn't want to include him on this list because I think he's kind of a loser: doesn't give a modicum of effort on defense, takes awful shots, flops an enraging amount, and disappears in the playoffs. I hate watching him play because of all of that. But offensively, he carries as much of a burden as any player in the league but LeBron. He handles the ball on almost every possession, has to take a lot of bail-out shots, and is going to be counted on to be the primary playmaker for Houston next year. I actually think there's a pretty decent chance that the Rockets are in freefall mode next season. But Harden's prowess as a scorer and ability to "initiate contact" (a phrase I hate but nonetheless a skill that matters in today's NBA) are as good as it gets in the league.



    Honorable mentions
    Just missed the cut - Tony Parker, Paul Millsap, Goran Dragic, John Wall, Andre Drummond
    Disqualified due to recent injury history (but would usually make it if healthy) - Paul George, Al Horford, Kobe Bryant, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Brook Lopez




    Let's have some fun with this. WHAT SAY YOU?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

    I'll leave off much description but I'll do my best..

    #1 -- LeBron James
    #2 -- Kevin Durant
    #3 -- Anthony Davis
    #4 -- Blake Griffin
    #5 -- Dwight Howard
    #6 -- Chris Paul
    #7 -- Russell Westbrook
    #8 -- Stephen Curry
    #9 -- LaMarcus Aldridge
    #10 -- Kevin Love
    #11 -- Joakim Noah
    #12 -- James Harden
    #13 -- Carmelo Anthony
    #14 -- Marc Gasol
    #15 -- Chris Bosh
    #16 -- DeMarcus Cousins
    #17 -- Dirk Nowitzki
    #18 -- Tony Parker
    #19 -- Tim Duncan
    #20 -- Kyrie Irving

    PG would be number 8 or 9 if he were healthy, I was close to including Wade anyway but he's in the next 5...Horford, Kobe, Rose, and Lopez have been out a lot recently so I have no idea really.

    Goran, Drummond and Wall would definently be in the next 5, along with Al Jefferson who I left off top 20. Millsap and Lowry I'm weary of; Millsap because he's either really good or completely awful in any game, and Lowry only seems to be really good in contract years.

    Crap forgot Damian Lillard...well he's probably #21
    Last edited by Cactus Jax; 09-20-2014, 08:02 PM.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

      Any combination of the ones mentioned above, except maybe Drummond (who reminds me of Darrell Dawkins). And I add in a healthy Kobe and Rose. I don't care how old Kobe is, you want the ball in his hands if he is healthy. And Rose has almost no peer at his position when healthy.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

        Originally posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
        Any combination of the ones mentioned above, except maybe Drummond (who reminds me of Darrell Dawkins). And I add in a healthy Kobe and Rose. I don't care how old Kobe is, you want the ball in his hands if he is healthy. And Rose has almost no peer at his position when healthy.
        Disagree about Kobe. With Rose I don't think we even know what a healthy Rose looks like going forward. It is far from a guarantee that Rose will be able to do what he has in the past.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

          I stopped reading after I saw Joakim Noah as a top 5 player in today's NBA and ranked ahead of Howard.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

            Originally posted by The Future View Post
            I stopped reading after I saw Joakim Noah as a top 5 player in today's NBA and ranked ahead of Howard.
            cool

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

              No mention of PG?
              "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                Originally posted by MillerTime View Post
                No mention of PG?
                I mentioned him at the end. Not including him due to injury.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                  I can't argue with the guys on the list, but Aldridge is easily more valuable than Blake Griffin. I think I like Cactus Jax list better.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                    1. Lebron
                    2. KD
                    3. Chris Paul
                    4. Russell Westbrook
                    5. LaMarcus Aldridge
                    6. Anthony Davis
                    7. Kevin Love
                    8. Dwight Howard
                    9. Stephen Curry
                    10. PG
                    11. Blake Griffin
                    12. Carmelo
                    13. James Harden
                    14. John Wall
                    15. Tim Duncan
                    16. Noah
                    17. Kyrie Irving
                    18. Tony Parker
                    19. Demarcus Cousins
                    20. Dirk

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                      PG >> Noah

                      C'mon now.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                        Originally posted by Shade View Post
                        PG >> Noah

                        C'mon now.
                        Maybe two years ago, but not last year IMO.

                        Again, I'm also taking into consideration the fact that PG is out for the season. I still think Noah's better but PG wouldn't have made my list even if I thought he was a top-5 player.
                        Last edited by spreedom; 09-21-2014, 06:32 PM.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                          Originally posted by spreedom View Post
                          Maybe two years ago, but not last year IMO.
                          Seriously?

                          Hell, Hibbert was destroying Noah in the DPOY race before he had maybe the most epic collapse of all time.

                          Noah is a very good player, but he's no superstar.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                            Originally posted by Shade View Post
                            Seriously?

                            Hell, Hibbert was destroying Noah in the DPOY race before he had maybe the most epic collapse of all time.

                            Noah is a very good player, but he's no superstar.
                            Gotta take the entire season into account. I tend to favor guys who finish strong over guys that have huge drop offs at the end of the year, even though I take the entire body of work into account.

                            Noah's been better than Hibbert every year of Hibbert's career (except maybe two years ago) and arguably better than PG over that same stretch (except for two years ago, when PG was clearly a more dynamic player than Noah).

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Just for fun... top 20 current NBA players?

                              Originally posted by spreedom View Post
                              Maybe two years ago, but not last year IMO.

                              Again, I'm also taking into consideration the fact that PG is out for the season. I still think Noah's better but PG wouldn't have made my list even if I thought he was a top-5 player.
                              Please explain to me how? I get Noah is a good hustle guy... But you are saying he is better than PG who put up 22/7/4 on 43% shooting in the regular season, and a 23/8/4 on 44% shooting in the post-season. Noah is good, but he is so overrated it is not even funny, he can't score very well, and did more on a bad team. Are you aware Nene pretty much destroyed Noah in the post-season as well? He couldn't handle Nene in that series at all.
                              Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 09-21-2014, 07:25 PM.

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