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Thread: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    So apparently all of our big men are terrible rebounders yet we somehow still manage to be one of the top rebounding teams in the league.
    IMHO, Overall.....I think the Pacers was a solid but not one of the top Rebounding Teams in the League.....but got progressively worse as the season progressed into the Playoffs.

    Overall Season - 4th in Defensive Rebounding, 11th in Overall Rebounding but 23rd in Offensive Rebounding.
    Post ASB - 10th in Defensive Rebounding, 19th in Overall Rebounding but 26th in Offensive Rebounding.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Anyone think these bigs spend their time blocking out? No...they control the paint and that's why they are the best in the league.
    Actually, yes. Robin Lopez always blocks out and he is the the main reason why LMA's rebounding average went up from 9.1 to 11.1.

    Take a look at this list, my friend -> http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingR...E*20**REB*GE*6

    Thanks to the data that the SportsVU cameras provide we can finally measure an extremely important statistic. Contested rebounding percentage. Contested rebounding percentage is exactly what it says on the tin. It measures the amount of contested rebounds a player grabs compared to his total rebounds.

    Robin Lopez is at the top of this list. In fact, he is the only player in the league that grabbed more contested rebounds than uncontested ones. 51% of his total rebounds were contested ones. What does that indicate? It indicates that Robin Lopez spent most of his time blocking out than trying to grab easy, uncontested rebounds. Robin would allow LMA to go and get the uncontested rebound and would simply box out and grab the rebound that came his way.

    The full top 10 when it comes to contested rebounding % is the following:

    1) Robin Lopez: 51%

    2) Enes Kanter: 50%

    3) Zaza Pachulia: 47.6%

    4) Nikola Pekovic: 47.5%

    5) Roy Hibbert: 47.4%

    6) Andre Drummond: 45.8%

    7) Jared Sullinger: 45.8%

    8) Amir Johnson: 45.5%

    9) Greg Monroe: 44.2%

    10) Serge Ibaka: 44%

    You will notice something about this top 10. Andre Drummond and Serge Ibaka are the only really athletic players in that list. Why is that? Because the Centers that lack explosive athleticism (quickness, vertical leap etc.) are ordered by their coaches to block out instead of attacking the ball since that raises their team's probability of grabbing the rebound.

    Why are Andre Drummond and Serge Ibaka on that list even though they are really athletic, you ask? There is an answer for that as well.

    When it comes to Drummond it's really quite simple. He is an absolute monster on the boards. He will grab every rebound that is in his vicinity no matter if it's a contested or an uncontested one. He is one of the guys that you simply tell "go get the ball" and he'll do it. He is the league's best rebounder by far, in my opinion.

    When it comes to Ibaka the answer is different. His main job is to block out the opponent's best rebounder in order for Durant to grab the uncontested rebound. If you sort the above list according to the lowest contested rebounding percentage then you will see Kevin Durant's name at the top. Only 22.2% of Durant's total rebounds were contested ones. The rest were uncontested rebounds. Ibaka and the other bigs (Perkins, Adams, Collison, it depends) would block out the opposing bigs and Kevin Durant would swoop in, grab the rebound and bring the ball up. It's a very logical thing to do when you have big, athletic wings that also act as your main ball-handler.

    The top 10 of that list according to the lowest contested rebounding percentage is the following:

    1) Kevin Durant: 22.2%

    2) Paul George: 22.6%

    3) Trevor Ariza: 23.7%

    4) Nicolas Batum: 23.9%

    5) Lance Stephenson: 24.7%

    6) LeBron James: 24.8%

    7) LaMarcus Aldridge: 27.4%

    8) Kevin Garnett: 27.9%

    9) Carmelo Anthony: 28.3%

    10) Carlos Boozer: 29.3%

    Are you surprised by the inclusion of 2 Pacer players in the top 5 of that list? You really shouldn't be.

    What I was describing about OKC above stands for the Pacers as well. The only difference is that in our case both Lance and PG were told to swoop in, grab the rebound and bring the ball up. Miami was doing a similar thing as well. Their bigs (Bosh, Haslem, Andersen, Battier) would block out and LeBron would swoop in, clear the board and play point forward.

    In general, this is how wings can post big rebounding numbers. None of the wings that rebound a lot spent their time in the post battling other bigs for rebounding position. Most of them depend on their bigs to block out the opposition's best offensive rebounder and grab mostly uncontested boards in order to bring the ball up and set up their team's offense quickly.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    If Roy were getting paid what Robin Lopez does, prob would not be much reason for concern when it comes to Roys rebounding numbers but the fact is he has a 15 Million Salary and does nothing exceptionally well except provide verticality on defense.

    Stats can be very deceiving and should be taken with a grain of salt. However, these #s look about right for Roy. He is 76th in the nba per 48 at rebounding.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...ounds/count/41



    I dont have anything bad to say about Roy as a person, in fact quite the contrary, he seems like a really solid dude for a millionaire. But in all honesty just because he plays for the the pacers doesnt mean his *** should be kissed and told it smells like roses when clearly thats just not the case.

    Yes, Roy is a bad rebounder at a price tag of 15 Million a season. Simply never a valid excuse for a 7'2 15Million dollar center to go multiple games without recording one single rebound.


    Roys just way overpaid.. thats really the only knock i have on him at this point. Suffice to say,, i dont believe anyone claiming Roy to be an above average rebounder is going to be comparing his numbers with Joahkim Noahs anytime soon this thread.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    If Roy were getting paid what Robin Lopez does, prob would not be much reason for concern when it comes to Roys rebounding numbers but the fact is he has a 15 Million Salary and does nothing exceptionally well except provide verticality on defense.

    Stats can be very deceiving and should be taken with a grain of salt. However, these #s look about right for Roy. He is 76th in the nba per 48 at rebounding.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...ounds/count/41



    I dont have anything bad to say about Roy as a person, in fact quite the contrary, he seems like a really solid dude for a millionaire. But in all honesty just because he plays for the the pacers doesnt mean his *** should be kissed and told it smells like roses when clearly thats just not the case.

    Yes, Roy is a bad rebounder at a price tag of 15 Million a season. Simply never a valid excuse for a 7'2 15Million dollar center to go multiple games without recording one single rebound.


    Roys just way overpaid.. thats really the only knock i have on him at this point. Suffice to say,, i dont believe anyone claiming Roy to be an above average rebounder is going to be comparing his numbers with Joahkim Noahs anytime soon this thread.
    There are several reasons why Roy is being paid more than Robin Lopez. First of all, Roy is more versatile offensively. Robin expanded his post game this season but Roy is still more efficient and consistent at it.

    The second reason is that Roy is a better defender. Robin has become a great defender in his own right as well but Roy is still better.

    The third and most important reason is how proven the two players were prior to getting their contracts. Roy was an All-Star that averaged 11.7 PPG and 11.2 RPG in the playoffs before signing his max contract (11-12 playoffs) with a couple of huge playoff games against the eventual champion (19 points/18 rebounds/5 blocks in game 3). Robin was the unproven brother of an All-Star.

    Robin Lopez had a great season. He proved that he belongs to a contender and he was Portland's stabilizing force. His next contract is going to be much, much better.

    Roy, on the other hand, had a disappointing season. It started off great but then both he and the team crashed.

    It took a very good year by one player and a very bad year by the other player for you (or anyone else) to ask this question. If you asked anyone (and I'm not talking about Pacer fans but neutral observers like Grantland) at the start of the season what is the reason for the disparity between the contracts of Roy Hibbert and Robin Lopez then they would point out the obvious.

    I have told you this thing again but I'll say it one more in case you ignored me the first time. I don't have any reason to kiss any player's or executive's ***. I'm not here to excuse anyone. I'm simply calling it as I see it. I'm not going to scapegoat someone for the amusement of the general crowd simply because he happens to be the forum's current favorite whipping boy. I didn't do it to Darren Collison, I didn't do it to Gerald Green, I didn't do it to Miles Plumlee, I didn't do it to Danny Granger and I'm not going to do it to anyone.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yep, one player is the reason why the Pacers are such a good rebounding team. Makes total sense. I'd expect someone like KLove, or D.Jordan to have that type of impact. Pretty impressive for the sole reason a team is good at rebounding, only averaging 7 rebs. Maybe his sheer presence just pushed the other rebounds in his teammates hands.

    Add rebounding to the list of things Lance is the bestest ever at.

    Lance's 7 rebs=reason why Pacers are so good at team rebounding
    Roy's 7rebs=reason why Pacers are a "slightly weak"rebounding team

    And Lance fully explains why the Pacers were the 4th best rebounding team in the league in 11-12, because Lance's 10mpg over 42 games just propelled them.....
    Lance's 4reb average in 12-13 must explain why the Pacers were the best rebounding team in the league in 12-13 too.

    Man, that Lance, he makes other players better by simple facilitated diffusion.
    When I look at it like this I can see why so many Pacers fans worship the guy as the second coming even though he cared so much about the Pacers and fans that the left them for about the same money. Luckily they have plenty of room on the Hornet's band wagon for any Pacer fan wanting to jump on. They may even have a forum over there where they can bash Pacer players and talk about that upcoming superstar Lance.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Actually, yes. Robin Lopez always blocks out and he is the the main reason why LMA's rebounding average went up from 9.1 to 11.1.
    Since your post is lengthy, I will limit what I quote. I actually agree that Hibbert's best role is to block out. Unfortunately, that is also David West's best role because neither of them are athletic enough to crash the boards.

    Dikembe didn't seem to have a problem rebounding and he wasn't that terribly athletic. He was tough enough to control the paint and long enough to grab rebounds while at the same time defending the rim. They are not skills that have to be mutually exclusive.

    The fact is, Hibbert paired with West requires that a wing do the rebounding. We saw that last year. Unfortunately, we do not have the horses this coming year to do that. Hibbert has averaged 8.8 boards in the past but he's seemed to lost some of that. From my perspective, he's been brought further out on the floor making it difficult for him to rebound...which also prevents him from protecting the rim...and that all hurts his confidence. This is not 2011-12. Teams have adjusted to Roy.. We shall see how this turns out.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Since your post is lengthy, I will limit what I quote. I actually agree that Hibbert's best role is to block out. Unfortunately, that is also David West's best role because neither of them are athletic enough to crash the boards.

    Dikembe didn't seem to have a problem rebounding and he wasn't that terribly athletic. He was tough enough to control the paint and long enough to grab rebounds while at the same time defending the rim. They are not skills that have to be mutually exclusive.
    Dikembe wasn't terribly athletic but he still was a lot more athletic than Roy. Dikembe was also at least 40 pounds lighter than Roy which made him a lot more mobile. Roy is a lot closer to Mark Eaton athletically than he is to Dikembe.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The fact is, Hibbert paired with West requires that a wing do the rebounding. We saw that last year. Unfortunately, we do not have the horses this coming year to do that. Hibbert has averaged 8.8 boards in the past but he's seemed to lost some of that. From my perspective, he's been brought further out on the floor making it difficult for him to rebound...which also prevents him from protecting the rim...and that all hurts his confidence. This is not 2011-12. Teams have adjusted to Roy.. We shall see how this turns out.

    I believe that the only thing that changed between 11-12 and now is the way that the team itself uses Roy. I don't believe that Roy forgot to rebound in half a year. The team simply instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards (if they are in the proximity, obviously) in order to get into our offense quickly. I distinctly remember that the following sequence happened a lot:

    1) The opposition takes a quick 3 or a long 2 with no offensive player in position to grab an offensive board.

    2) Every single Pacer except PG or Lance immediatedly runs to the other end of the court.

    3) PG or Lance grab the rebound while the other 9 players are past the half court and bring the ball up.

    This sequence happened several times throughout the game. Don't you think that we could let our bigs grab their boards in order to pump their numbers? A lot of teams do that (looking at you, LMA). We didn't do it because it didn't make sense for us. We wanted to get into our offense as quick as possible and that's why we instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards.

    It's as simple as that, in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Yes, they just "control the paint" by doing nothing. Their presence alone is enough to get the rebound. **** that, if you think that you know nothing about basketball.
    Don't matter. When u the tallest player on the court and u can't grab a single rebound the whole game, u ain't very good at rebounding

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeRyan07 View Post
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    Don't matter. When u the tallest player on the court and u can't grab a single rebound the whole game, u ain't very good at rebounding
    I can't believe that I agree 100% with this. I would have worded it differently, but this gets the general point across.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Dikembe wasn't terribly athletic but he still was a lot more athletic than Roy. Dikembe was also at least 40 pounds lighter than Roy which made him a lot more mobile. Roy is a lot closer to Mark Eaton athletically than he is to Dikembe.




    I believe that the only thing that changed between 11-12 and now is the way that the team itself uses Roy. I don't believe that Roy forgot to rebound in half a year. The team simply instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards (if they are in the proximity, obviously) in order to get into our offense quickly. I distinctly remember that the following sequence happened a lot:

    1) The opposition takes a quick 3 or a long 2 with no offensive player in position to grab an offensive board.

    2) Every single Pacer except PG or Lance immediatedly runs to the other end of the court.

    3) PG or Lance grab the rebound while the other 9 players are past the half court and bring the ball up.

    This sequence happened several times throughout the game. Don't you think that we could let our bigs grab their boards in order to pump their numbers? A lot of teams do that (looking at you, LMA). We didn't do it because it didn't make sense for us. We wanted to get into our offense as quick as possible and that's why we instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards.

    It's as simple as that, in my opinion.
    That may have been the strategy, but it has little or no precedent in the NBA. Shooting guards are not normally called upon to go to the glass.

    Here is what I think happened. Once Roy established himself as a dominant shot-blocking presence in the paint, teams had no choice but to take him outside. His issue with mobility became exposed so it became even more difficult for him to get back to rebound or block shots. So, the Pacers abandoned the idea Roy and West would stay home to hit the glass. Instead, since teams are taking them outside they now block-out. This isn't happening because the Pacers are choosing to do it as a strategy. They would far prefer Roy to stay right in the paint and contend with shots. But the opposition isn't allowing that and it is indeed having an affect on Roy grabbing boards in addition to protecting the rim. That is why our SG led the entire team in rebounds. Our bigs are simply too slow and not athletic enough to get back to hit the glass.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    The team simply instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards (if they are in the proximity, obviously) in order to get into our offense quickly.

    Don't you think that we could let our bigs grab their boards in order to pump their numbers? A lot of teams do that (looking at you, LMA). We didn't do it because it didn't make sense for us. We wanted to get into our offense as quick as possible and that's why we instructed our bigs to let the wings grab the boards.

    It's as simple as that, in my opinion.

    Do you have any proof of this "instruction" per our coaches or is this as you stated only "opinion." So basically your saying the coaches instructed Hibbert not to rebound the basketball and only block out. Thats just absurd.

    Blocking out and rebounding are essentially the same action all in one. you dont just block out with no intent of rebounding. thats so far fetched as to the reason why roys rebounding #s were low i dont even want to bother explaining the variety of flaws presented in that argument.

    Again, i would like to know if there is any support to the claim hibbert was instructed to only block out from our coaches. not saying you dont have direct evidence, simply requesting the source.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    I like to boil things down to a simple thought.

    People who "hate stats" often rely on bad stats the most.

    Rebounds per game is a ****** stat, that doesn't account for a myriad of circumstances, in regards to the actual effect or relevance it has toward winning a basketball game.

    Case in point:



    Yet players get destroyed for not reaching certain bad stat benchmarks, Roy will never be good enough for many unless he reaches the irrelevant benchmark of 10 rebounds per game, you know, because he's tall.

    Any time someone tries to introduce an advanced metric into the discussion, that tries to account for the bigger picture of what's actually going on, inevitably some push back in the form of "I just watch the games" comes into play. I think that's crap.

    If you think RPG is so otherworldly important, than stop talking about how you "watch the games". That's a stat. Assists per game? (How often are good winning passes not credited with the assist?) They are all stats, some better than others. In fact, the most simplistic ones usually aren't the best ones.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 08-24-2014 at 01:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    If you want to destroy a statistic, it would be assists per game average. Doing late night research (so it could easily be wrong), the highest APG average anyone has had since Tinsley was TJ Ford in 08/09 with 5.9, and I think Darren Collison had 5.3 apg one year (George Hill's highest is 4.7 in 2012/13). I do think there's/was a legit passing concern on the team.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    That may have been the strategy, but it has little or no precedent in the NBA. Shooting guards are not normally called upon to go to the glass.
    No, it's not unprecedented at all. Michael Jordan averaged 6.2 RPG throughout his career. Kobe averages 5.3 RPG in his career. Wade averages 5.0 RPG in his career. Julius Ervin averaged 8.5 RPG. Oscar Robertson averaged 7.5 RPG.

    It's common for athletic wings that also bring the ball up to stay back and gather the rebound. Let's not act like Lance is some kind of an undersized guard. Lance is a wing and wings are often called upon to attack the glass.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Here is what I think happened. Once Roy established himself as a dominant shot-blocking presence in the paint, teams had no choice but to take him outside. His issue with mobility became exposed so it became even more difficult for him to get back to rebound or block shots. So, the Pacers abandoned the idea Roy and West would stay home to hit the glass. Instead, since teams are taking them outside they now block-out. This isn't happening because the Pacers are choosing to do it as a strategy. They would far prefer Roy to stay right in the paint and contend with shots. But the opposition isn't allowing that and it is indeed having an affect on Roy grabbing boards in addition to protecting the rim. That is why our SG led the entire team in rebounds. Our bigs are simply too slow and not athletic enough to get back to hit the glass.
    Not every team had a way to take Roy outside of the paint. Not every team has a big that can shoot from 3. The sequence I described in the post you quoted happened in every single game regardless of the opponent. Therefore, it's easy to assume that it was our own strategy and not something that the opposition imposed on us.
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    Do you have any proof of this "instruction" per our coaches or is this as you stated only "opinion." So basically your saying the coaches instructed Hibbert not to rebound the basketball and only block out. Thats just absurd.

    Blocking out and rebounding are essentially the same action all in one. you dont just block out with no intent of rebounding. thats so far fetched as to the reason why roys rebounding #s were low i dont even want to bother explaining the variety of flaws presented in that argument.

    Again, i would like to know if there is any support to the claim hibbert was instructed to only block out from our coaches. not saying you dont have direct evidence, simply requesting the source.
    My only proof is the hours that I have spent rewatching this season's games, my friend. I'm not from the US so it would be quite impossible for me to have any kind of source inside the Pacers locker room. But I can watch the games as many times as I like and I can notice several patterns.

    When you see that some things happen consistently then you can guess that they are in fact coaching instructions.

    I'll give you an example. Lance Stephenson averaged only 3.9 RPG in the 12-13 RS. When the playoffs came around Vogel instructed Lance to go after rebounds aggressively (and that's something that Lance himself has confirmed). What was the result of this? Lance's rebounding numbers skyrocketed. He went from averaging 3.9 RPG in the RS to average 7.6 RPG in the Playoffs. What was the reason for this sudden change? It was a coaching instruction.

    No, I don't have any inside information. I never claimed that I did have inside information. What I do claim is simple. I noticed some patterns that happened consistently. Roy Hibbert would always block out. Come hell or high water, he would always try to find the opposition's best offensive rebounder and block him out. I spent several hours re-watching our games and looking at Roy's reaction after a shot went up and that's exactly what he did the vast majority of the time. He found the opposition's best offensive rebounder and blocked him out.

    If something is happening so consistently throughout a whole season then one of the two is happening.

    1) It's a coaching instruction and that's why it will keep happening without changing.

    2) The individual player is ignoring the coach for a whole freakin' season and refuses to follow his orders.

    What is more likely to be the case? Don't you think that if Hibbert was ignoring Frank's orders for a whole season then Frank would bench him? It didn't happen. Frank chose to stick with Hibbert even when he was playing awful and defended him from outside criticism. I really don't believe that he would do that for a player that ignored his instructions for a whole season.

    That's why I believe that it was a coaching instruction, my friend. Yes, it's only my opinion since I don't have any tangible evidence in order to prove it but it's also the only thing that makes sense.

    PS: I also think that you have misunderstood what I said. I never said that Hibbert is instructed to block out with no intent of rebounding. I simply said that he is instructed to block out instead of attacking the ball. There is a pretty big difference between blocking out and attacking the ball.

    Hibbert, Ian and West blocked out with the intent of rebounding. Lance, Paul and Scola attacked the ball. You are free to re-watch the games and notice that this was the general pattern.
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  23. #92
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    People who "hate stats" often rely on bad stats the most.
    This x1000000000000000. AMEN!
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  25. #93
    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    I like to boil things down to a simple thought.

    People who "hate stats" often rely on bad stats the most.

    Rebounds per game is a ****** stat, that doesn't account for a myriad of circumstances, in regards to the actual effect or relevance it has toward winning a basketball game.

    Case in point:



    Yet players get destroyed for not reaching certain bad stat benchmarks, Roy will never be good enough for many unless he reaches the irrelevant benchmark of 10 rebounds per game, you know, because he's tall.

    Any time someone tries to introduce an advanced metric into the discussion, that tries to account for the bigger picture of what's actually going on, inevitably some push back in the form of "I just watch the games" comes into play. I think that's crap.

    If you think RPG is so otherworldly important, than stop talking about how you "watch the games". That's a stat. Assists per game? (How often are good winning passes not credited with the assist?) They are all stats, some better than others. In fact, the most simplistic ones usually aren't the best ones.
    The people you think "hate stats" don't really see a difference between what you consider to be "bad stats" and other stats that are considered "advanced stats"...which I assume you think are "good stats". Why they are "good stats" I really don't know, because they suffer from the same thing. They do not account for nearly enough things for most people to draw valid conclusions from them.

    That's really the issue. I respect stats and value the information they yield. The issue is the number of times I have seen them used to make invalid conclusion on this site. Time after time I have seen those conclusions shot down because the person using the stat had not been nearly thorough enough about other aspects of the game that might explain why the numbers look the way they do.

    So, my advice is just be careful about drawing conclusions. The fact Roy is a bad rebounder is not a myth. At 7'2" and with his length, he should be owning the boards. His issue is that he isn't quick or athletic enough and the man cannot stay on his feet. He cannot own the paint and to understand that does not take a single statistic.

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  27. #94
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    My only proof is the hours that I have spent rewatching this season's games, my friend. I'm not from the US so it would be quite impossible for me to have any kind of source inside the Pacers locker room. But I can watch the games as many times as I like and I can notice several patterns.
    I'm reasonably certain that Vogel or someone from the team expressed this at some point.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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  29. #95
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I'm reasonably certain that Vogel or someone from the team expressed this at some point.
    They did during or right after the 12-13 playoff series with the Heat.

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  31. #96
    Ain't Happening BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I'm reasonably certain that Vogel or someone from the team expressed this at some point.
    I would not at all be surprised. If so, I agree with the way he is being used. If Andrew Bynum had been our C, the instructions (IMO) would have been different and Lance would not have had to lead the team on the glass.

  32. #97
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    If I am looking forward to nothing else this season, which I pretty much am not, I am just looking forward to the hopeful end of Roy Hibbert excuses or bad play. One way or the other this season he should either be able to put it all together and at least have a consistent season or his defenders should be able to see that anything short of his own injury is pretty much just excuse making if he has another off kilter season.

    Wait, nevermind I just now thought that this isn't really true. If he does falter will they then use the excuse that he has to much pressure put on him because Paul & Lance are no longer here?

    For the record Roy IMO isn't a bad rebounder, however he is not a good rebounder either.


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  34. #98
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If I am looking forward to nothing else this season, which I pretty much am not, I am just looking forward to the hopeful end of Roy Hibbert excuses or bad play. One way or the other this season he should either be able to put it all together and at least have a consistent season or his defenders should be able to see that anything short of his own injury is pretty much just excuse making if he has another off kilter season.

    Wait, nevermind I just now thought that this isn't really true. If he does falter will they then use the excuse that he has to much pressure put on him because Paul & Lance are no longer here?

    For the record Roy IMO isn't a bad rebounder, however he is not a good rebounder either.
    You make some very good points. As a 7'2" C who protects the rim incredibly well and has very long arms, I would expect more rebounds than 6.6...less than 3 other starters. But if he can actually get back to his 2011-12 production, you have to grade him at about a B or at worst a C. I do think he came close to flunking last year though.

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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You make some very good points. As a 7'2" C who protects the rim incredibly well and has very long arms, I would expect more rebounds than 6.6...
    And you did get more than 6.6 RPG in the rest of his Vogel-led career. Let's not act like the last season is what we should expect from him in the future. It's pretty clearly an anomaly.
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  37. #100
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    Default Re: Myth Buster: Is Roy Hibbert A Bad Rebounder?

    Interesting...I always thought it was by design given the high number of rebounds that George and Stephenson got per game. Stephenson was our best player we had at putting pressure on the defense during a fastbreak situation, and Paul George wasn't that far behind him. We didn't have the best half-court offense in the league, so (to me) it only made sense to take advantage of Stephenson and George's skills in the open court when possible. Hibbert was a better offensive rebounder than he was a defensive rebounder, because of how close he played to the rim. We wasn't the traditional PF/C grabs the rebound then waits for the PG to come get it team...if that was case, then this forum would be in an uproar about how we "never run the ball". I don't care about Roy's overall RPG as long as he's hitting the offensive glass. The ATL series was particularly frustrating, because they basically nullified Hibbert in every way. The one thing he COULD have done (offensive rebounding), he was horrible which was why I was so anger with his game during the playoffs. He was "alright" against Washington and Miami. However, I thought the team as a whole fell apart.
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 08-25-2014 at 05:03 AM.

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