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Thread: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I agree with this to a degree. If Lance is shooting a decent percentage, none of this is happening.

    If Lance doesn't decide to improve his shot (and I am convinced it is an issue of practice, just look at his free throws), he won't come near his potential.

    Also, Lance is high maintenance. Rodman is a good comparison. So, I do think he's the common denominator, but I also think he's worth the trouble.
    My take from Clifford is he doesn't like Lance stopping the ball and he doesn't like Lance's shot selection. You do wonder if Lance was shooting more efficiently how Clifford would react.

    I can see the high maintenance thing with Lance. Id compare him more to JR Smith (immature, wants to be a star, poster when things Dont go his way) than to Rodman (crazy, but an absolute workhorse). The thing with that is that the coach has to think the player is worth the "trouble". If not then you get what we are seeing now--the player getting benched.

    Clifford could tone down on the direct, "Lance isn't a star player" comments. Like I said I may agree with everything he's saying, but as a coach I've always been taught that you want to enstill confidence in your players. Give them a role and ask them to excel as much as possible within that role. Clifford may see Lance isn't a star, but he needs to be giving Lance confidence to be a star within whatever role Clifford wants him to play within. If he doesn't, then eventually he will lose Lance. And that's if he hasn't lost him already.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Can you explain the common denominator part? Lance = successful in Indiana, unsuccessful in Charlotte. Or are you pinning last season's collapse on Lance?

    Btw, I disagree with aamcguy's claim that Lance was being held back here. It seems to me that Lance was thriving here, and in fact that's why I wanted him to stay.
    I personally didn't think we collapsed last year, just came back to Earth following a crazy start. We still made it to the ECF which even though we lost, we had a chance to be where we wanted to be.

    You may not believe Lance was held back here, but plenty others do. They saw Lance as a star player that couldn't fully blossom because of our slower pace, because our bugs weren't athletic enough finishers, etc. Now everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else (Clifford, Kemba, MJ, Lance's agent) as to what's going on on Charlotte, but not the player himself.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I personally didn't think we collapsed last year, just came back to Earth following a crazy start. We still made it to the ECF which even though we lost, we had a chance to be where we wanted to be.

    You may not believe Lance was held back here, but plenty others do. They saw Lance as a star player that couldn't fully blossom because of our slower pace, because our bugs weren't athletic enough finishers, etc. Now everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else (Clifford, Kemba, MJ, Lance's agent) as to what's going on on Charlotte, but not the player himself.
    Lance is part of the problem in Charlotte, undoubtedly. But is he a big enough factor to cause ALL the problems in Charlotte? That might be giving him too much credit.

    FWIW, I've only blamed Lance's agent for not getting him into a better situation. Certainly not blaming him for Charlotte's bad play. I definitely blame Clifford though - that's always on the coach, just as last year's strong run is to his credit. Kemba, like Lance, is to blame for poor play. But that's who he is as a player, so I'm certainly not expecting him to change. I have no idea who's blaming MJ for what.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Lance benched for a cab driver Brian Roberts? Coach Clifford will be fired by midseason. Clearly an act of desperation
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Can you explain the common denominator part? Lance = successful in Indiana, unsuccessful in Charlotte. Or are you pinning last season's collapse on Lance?

    Btw, I disagree with aamcguy's claim that Lance was being held back here. It seems to me that Lance was thriving here, and in fact that's why I wanted him to stay.
    The bridge I'm making between the Charlotte and Indiana is the perception people have that Lance is being limited by the people around him in both situations. It was a common theme that Lance would look better if his teammates weren't so inept, or if he was given a bigger share of the offense he would be a borderline superstar instead of just a really good player. Now, its still that Lance is a great player but he's not being allowed to showcase it because Jefferson and Kemba are actively fighting him for touches and Clifford's got him in his doghouse. While all of this is true to a point, if Lance was a little less selfish and high maintenance he would have a little more leeway or find a way to fit in. He's got the skill set for more than one role, but there is only one role he wants to play.

    I think that as a total package, what you see is what you get with Lance. He does some amazing things, but his preferred style of play and attitude are what "hold him back." It's not his coaches or teammates. Put another way, he's not a guy that makes other people better. He is the guy that gets better or worse based on his teammates.

    I agree he did well in Indiana, btw. I just don't think he was being held down.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 11-27-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Lance is part of the problem in Charlotte, undoubtedly. But is he a big enough factor to cause ALL the problems in Charlotte? That might be giving him too much credit..
    I wasn't commenting on CHA's problems as a team, I was only mentioning Lance and his play.

    I still believe if Lance were as talented as many seem to believe, he would be able to fit wherever he goes. Plus Lance's agent doesnt make the final decision, Lance does. You can't really blame his agent for his situation when at the end of the day Lance is the last one to sign off on it. Also. Lance didn't have many other options in the first place.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-27-2014 at 12:21 PM.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Is it really an agent's job to consider the basketball implications of a move? Agent's are financial guys, lawyers, and negotiators.

    It's Lance's job—and his trusted basketball advisors—to make a good decision based on his bball skill set. It's the agent's job to get him a good financial deal.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    O wasn't commenting on CHA's problems as a team, I was only mentioning Lance and his play.

    I still believe if Lance were as talented as many seem to believe, he would be able to fit wherever he goes. Plus Lance's agent doesnt make the final decision, Lance does. You can't really blame his agent for his situation when at the end of the day Lance is the last one to sign off on it. Also. Lance didn't have many other options in the first place.
    He's not fitting and it's been rough for him because he remains immature and the coach is not coddling him, not because he doesn't have the talent. Even the coach, who does not mince words, recognizes and said he has the potential to be a star player. He didn't say backup. He didn't say starter. He said the potential to be a star.

    Also, there's a reason why the Pacers, who know a lot more than most posters here, offered him more than George Hill. It wasn't because he won attendance awards at practice. It's because they see the talent. So did Mark Boyle who said he and Paul George were the two most talented players on the Pacers.

    The fact is, most posters agree here that Charlotte is a very bad situation for Lance. There are 3 guys who dominate the ball and that simply does not work. Lance is the new guy and the guy with the least experience, so he's found his way to the dog house because the coach cannot seem to find a way to win games, with or without Lance. Perhaps the Hornets are reacting to Clifford just like the Pacers...seeing the team get worse over time. It was clear that JOb attacking players in the media didn't work. I think we have JOb II there in Charlotte.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 11-27-2014 at 12:17 PM.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    O wasn't commenting on CHA's problems as a team, I was only mentioning Lance and his play.

    I still believe if Lance were as talented as many seem to believe, he would be able to fit wherever he goes. Plus Lance's agent doesnt make the final decision, Lance does. You can't really blame his agent for his situation when at the end of the day Lance is the last one to sign off on it. Also. Lance didn't have many other options in the first place.
    2 points:

    1. A player's agent definitely affects his options. I don't see why that is contentious. A better agent would have a better idea of his market price, meaning he wouldn't have to wait around for a $10m offer that wasn't coming. If Lance's agent had let it be known early in FA that his asking price is $9m, before teams have committed their money elsewhere, I'm pretty sure the market would have been different.

    2. Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Kyle Lowry, Kyle Korver, Boris Diaw, Zach Randolph and no doubt many others, were all players who couldn't fit in some places but were talented enough to become difference makers elsewhere. Not every talented player is an all-rounder.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    A lot of players have potential to be a star. JR Smith has the potential, Jamal Crawford had the potential years ago, but potential doesn't mean much when you're talking about the here and now. To me though, star players produce at a high level over a period of time. To me star players are able to make the best of their situations and can produce and have an impact on games positively no matter what. Star players elevate their team by their presence, not take away from it. But star player can mean different things to different people.

    I'm not sure what G.Hill has to do with the conversation. The Pacers believed Lance was a part of our future. I've long believed they overrated his talent, and impact - but they were pretty close to getting his value right. Again all are all just opinions of mine.

    Lance is in the doghouse because he isn't conforming to the way the coach wants him to play, Lance is in the doghouse because hes not playing particularly well, but Lance is not in the doghouse because he's the new guy. That just doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-27-2014 at 08:36 PM.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    2. Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Kyle Lowry, Kyle Korver, Boris Diaw, Zach Randolph and no doubt many others, were all players who couldn't fit in some places but were talented enough to become difference makers elsewhere. Not every talented player is an all-rounder.
    I agree. But nobody was singing these guys praises as anything close to a star player until they consistently began being difference makers. The way they became those consistent difference makers was by working on their faults. Lance has one good year, and all of a sudden hes considered to be a great player. It doesnt work that way.

    Also, with the exception of Randolph none of those guys you mentioned were partocularly high maintenance, immature players. Lance is. And right now his production and impact doesnt warrant dealing with those issues IMO. Last year was borderline, but even then a lot of fans and maybe some of his teammates seemed to be turned off from that fact.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 11-27-2014 at 01:14 PM.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Also, there's a reason why the Pacers, who know a lot more than most posters here, offered him more than George Hill.
    I'm confused - I thought he was offered less than GHill in the first year and that was what offended him to the point of leaving.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    This is looking like a terrible move by Lance to leave

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'm confused - I thought he was offered less than GHill in the first year and that was what offended him to the point of leaving.

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    I doubt that was a factor. Their contracts differ in how the dollars are allocated over 5 years, but Lance was offered a bigger contract. Lance, even with baggage, was offered a 5 year deal worth 44 million, Hill a 5 year deal worth 40 million he was extremely lucky to get. OTOH, Lance turns around and signs with Charlotte for a full million more than Hill over the next 3 years. So there we have two professional organizations willing to pay Lance more than G. Hill. I tend to agree with them.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Wow.

    Bill Reiter @foxsportsreiter · 3h 3 hours ago

    Also told me that, from the start, folks in Charlotte started to realize in Lance they'd bitten off more than they'd planned on chewing.
    0 replies 4 retweets 1 favorite

    Bill Reiter @foxsportsreiter · 3h 3 hours ago

    Was told a few weeks ago Lance Stephenson, not Paul George or anyone else, impacted Hibbert so negatively last season. Looking accurate.
    0 replies 7 retweets 3 favorites


    I think they are going to end trading him. They may HAVE to.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Roy must have gotten over it pretty quickly:

    https://twitter.com/hoya2apacer/stat...12825895985152
    Source: Twitter

    Oh, then there is this post:

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/roy-...rlotte-hornets
    Source: USA Today

    Hibbert loved Lance Stephenson apparently.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 11-27-2014 at 07:56 PM.

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  27. #2092

    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Roy must have gotten over it pretty quickly:

    https://twitter.com/hoya2apacer/stat...12825895985152
    Source: Twitter

    Oh, then there is this post:

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/roy-...rlotte-hornets
    Source: USA Today

    Hibbert loved Lance Stephenson apparently.
    Maybe liked him off the court, but I highly doubt he was a fan of Lance off the court. Its looking pretty clear to me Charlotte isn't liking the return that they are getting on Lance.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    it was Bynum's fault. never forget.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    He's not fitting and it's been rough for him because he remains immature and the coach is not coddling him, not because he doesn't have the talent. Even the coach, who does not mince words, recognizes and said he has the potential to be a star player. He didn't say backup. He didn't say starter. He said the potential to be a star.

    Also, there's a reason why the Pacers, who know a lot more than most posters here, offered him more than George Hill. It wasn't because he won attendance awards at practice. It's because they see the talent. So did Mark Boyle who said he and Paul George were the two most talented players on the Pacers.
    No one is denying Lance's talent, my friend. Some people just don't know if Lance is ever going to reach his full potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Perhaps the Hornets are reacting to Clifford just like the Pacers...seeing the team get worse over time. It was clear that JOb attacking players in the media didn't work. I think we have JOb II there in Charlotte.
    I wasn't here during the JOB era but this truly seems quite possible.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Roy must have gotten over it pretty quickly:

    https://twitter.com/hoya2apacer/stat...12825895985152
    Source: Twitter

    Oh, then there is this post:

    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/07/roy-...rlotte-hornets
    Source: USA Today

    Hibbert loved Lance Stephenson apparently.
    You can like a person off the court even if that person affects you negatively on the court.

    Personally, I don't think that Lance was an issue for Roy off the court. I remember both links that you posted quite vividly. But it's clear that Lance doesn't mesh well with players like Hibbert and Al Jefferson (post creators) on the court. I don't know how accurate Bill Reiter's tweet is but I could see that happening.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 11-27-2014 at 08:26 PM.
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  33. #2096
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    I think the players like Lance. I also think that Lance's immaturity wore thin on guys over the course of a long NBA season. I have plenty of friends that are really cool guys and I like them, but if I were around them all the time, some of their personality traits would grate on me over time.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Maybe liked him off the court, but I highly doubt he was a fan of Lance off the court.
    My sense is that it was the other way around.
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