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Thread: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

  1. #751
    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Not too bad. That's 7 points, 8 assists and 13 rebounds playing with a groin injury.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Lance looked like Lance to me. Couldn't tell he was hurt, and his stat line was very Lance-like.

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  4. #753

    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Stuckey- 1 Stephenson- 0!

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Stuckey- 1 Stephenson- 0!
    ???? Please explain.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  7. #755

    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Sounds like Kemba was worth the money tonight. Maybe he'll be a reverse Dampier. Lance had the kind of game you'd expect from Lance battling a groin injury.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    How some people interpret what someone says is amazing. I never compared Walker to Paul George because there is no comparison. But some people might think he compares to Lance, in my opinion there is no comparison there either. But any player worth anything would strive to be the best player he can be on his team and that is what Lance strives for. He may become that he may not but you can never fault someone for having a goal like that. There is also a possibility he could become the best perimeter player on the Pacers who knows. But you saying that is all he was interested in is calling him self centered and egotistical. The Pacers offered him a contract pretty much take it or leave it, he said no to it, deadline they give him passes and they sign Miles what kind of message would that send to you. And you yourself said they offered all they could. There was even less money available after Miles signed. He said what they came back to him with after that was nonsense meaning less money or the term wasn't what he was willing to take. Sometimes you have to take off the rose colored glasses and see things for what they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    That and the loss of Stephenson unless you are one of those who believe Lance had no value to the team at all in the win loss column. Geez give the kid credit for something. He has worked very hard and given our team his all he deserves something and he even did it on a minimal contract.
    My schedule is tight at the moment (which is why I'm replying to these posts now instead of two days earlier) so I will have to make this quick.

    Please, stop lumping everyone into "pro-Lance" and "anti-Lance" groups and stop making assumptions. I never called Lance self centered or egotistical. I called him ambitious. Wanting to be the #1 perimeter option on one's team is not something egotistical. It's a common ambition among NBAers.

    I never refused to give Lance credit either. I was one of the people that wanted Lance to come off the bench at the start of last season's because I wanted Lance to have the ball in his hands when he was on the court instead of being the 5th option with the starters like he was in 12-13 (something that I thought would continue to happen in 13-14 but I was quickly proved wrong). I fully embraced the role that Frank gave to Lance in the 13-14 team and the freedom to act as a PG with both units. If you don't believe me, you are free to ask McKeyFan.

    I have never been "anti-Lance: or anything of that sort. I just don't think that his departure will eternally alter this team's title chances. I have said it before and I will say it again. I love each and every player of this team's core (and that included Lance and Danny up until their departures) but I only believe that two of them are irreplaceable. Those two players are Paul George and Roy Hibbert. Why do I believe that these two cannot be replaced? Because of their defense. The identity of this team has been centered around its defense ever since Vogel took charge. This is what defines and seperates this team from everyone else. I believe that as long as we have this defensive identity then we will be able to remain in contention and those two players are the ones that define our defensive identity. That's exactly why we cannot replace them. We can replace everyone's offensive production but we cannot replace Hibbert's and PG's defense.

    Yes, Lance was an invaluable member of this team. I never denied that. But he is not the cornerstone of our defense like Hibbert and PG and therefore he can be replaced. The same applied to Danny. The same applies to Hill and West. Yes, even David West. He has been absolutely vital for this team and he single-handledly won us that game 6 against the Hawks last year. He is one of the main reasons why this team has played great basketball after the lock-out season. It's not a coincidence that this team's upwards trajectory started after he signed with us. I'm absolutely certain that he played a big role in the development of all our young players. But I don't believe that the team will suffer when he retires (I want him to retire hire and to be hired by the FO in a coaching/scouting capacity).

    And yes, this is the short version of what I wanted to write
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  10. #757

    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Are you all ignoring his 3-12 ??

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Did anyone see his dunk last night?
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Are you all ignoring his 3-12 ??
    Nope. It only speaks to his growing maturity that he found other ways to contribute when his shot wasn't falling. That's what the best do.

    As for him going to Charlotte to be "the man," I didn't see any of that in the first game. The offense was well-balanced and unselfish all around, especially Big Al passing out of double and triple teams. Lance was integral to the second half surge with his highlight, momentum-changing dunk over Sanders and his ability to break his man down to create for others. Marvin Williams and MKG were surprisingly effective, especially MKG's newly found shooting stroke, which looks very smooth, fluid and confident. He could be evolving into a gifted two way player. And of course, when it came down to the biggest shots, Lance had no problem stepping aside for Kemba. Everyone knows Kemba lives for those shots, regardless of how he's shooting throughout the night. This was a fun game to watch. I have a feeling "The Beehive" will provide the stage for many more historic nights in this new Hornets era.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    I watched quite a bit of the game. Lance looked like Lance, good Lance and bad Lance. (Bad lance to me is not turnovers, bad shots, poor defense.....no to me bad lance is poor attitude on the court especially towards his teammates - and I did see a little of that last night)

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I watched quite a bit of the game. Lance looked like Lance, good Lance and bad Lance. (Bad lance to me is not turnovers, bad shots, poor defense.....no to me bad lance is poor attitude on the court especially towards his teammates - and I did see a little of that last night)
    I saw this side of Lance too, most notably when he rifled a pass that hit Marvin Williams right in the middle of his chest and careened out of bounds. Zeller bobbled a few passes as well. It seemed like first game nerves on their part, but Lance is a competitor. In the heat of the moment, his frustration seeps through. He does need to do a better job of regulating his emotions, but I think if you ask him to wear a poker face, you're asking him to abandon a large part of where "good Lance" comes from. He's a competitor but coming out of Coney Island, he's also an entertainer. His exuberance gets the crowd into it and he feeds off their energy.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You are dead wrong. Usage% involves individual stats and individual stats are very much affected by other players on the floor. Let me boil this down. Let's say Lance plays more minutes with backups...like Ian. Hill plays more with guys like West who has good hands. West is likely to catch the ball much better and avoid turnovers being assessed to Hill.

    Then you have to consider who is guarding these guys. In the Miami example, Hill is guarded by Chalmers. Lance normally by LeBron. Who do you think is the better defender? The GOAT or Mario freaking Chalmers? Don't you think that would cause Lance to turn the ball over more and miss more FGA?...causing his PPG to not look as good as it really is when compared to usage%.

    I'm sorry. But stop trying.
    Like I said im my response, if you think usage% is impacted by other players on the floor, then EVERY STAT EVER PRODUCED IS NOW INVALID BECAUSE THEY ALL WOULD.

    If FGA/FTA are impacted by your teammates/defenders, then PPG are now "misleading." That's how far down the rabbit hole we have to climb. You've now invalidated the most basic stats, just to try and discredit usage%.

    Then you have to consider who is guarding these guys. In the Miami example, Hill is guarded by Chalmers. Lance normally by LeBron. Who do you think is the better defender? The GOAT or Mario freaking Chalmers? Don't you think that would cause Lance to score less and miss more FGA?...causing his PPG to not look as good as it really is when defended by less defenders.
    Last edited by Since86; 10-30-2014 at 09:20 AM.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Like I said im my response, if you think usage% is impacted by other players on the floor, then EVERY STAT EVER PRODUCED IS NOW INVALID BECAUSE THEY ALL WOULD.

    If FGA/FTA are impacted by your teammates/defenders, then PPG are now "misleading." That's how far down the rabbit hole we have to climb. You've now invalidated the most basic stats, just to try and discredit usage%.
    I think problem is in saying an individual stat is "invalid" because it is affected by other players on the floor.

    The correct statement is simply to use such things to EXPLAIN why the stat is what it is. In other words, the stat doesn't exist in a vacuum.

    For example, it may be perfectly valid to explain a player's low PPG by looking at low FGAs and FTAs, then look at the need for other players on the floor to have the ball or be higher priority options as the ultimate reason for it - as opposed to a player with the same low PPG and high FGA/FTA numbers (meaning the latter player is a bad shot).

    Conversely, you might watch a player who hits every single shot he takes and the "eye test" would make you think that's a guy who has a huge impact on the team - but by looking at FGA/FTA (or the shorthand usage %) you would see that the player takes so few shots that hitting 100% of them is pretty trivial. Should the guy get more usage? That's a question requiring analysis of how the other players with higher usage are doing and why.

    The irony is that each side seems to try to make its arguments by claiming the other side uses nothing but "eye test" or stats, when the reality is that with very few exceptions everyone advocates some mix of the two.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I saw this side of Lance too, most notably when he rifled a pass that hit Marvin Williams right in the middle of his chest and careened out of bounds. Zeller bobbled a few passes as well. It seemed like first game nerves on their part, but Lance is a competitor. In the heat of the moment, his frustration seeps through. He does need to do a better job of regulating his emotions, but I think if you ask him to wear a poker face, you're asking him to abandon a large part of where "good Lance" comes from. He's a competitor but coming out of Coney Island, he's also an entertainer. His exuberance gets the crowd into it and he feeds off their energy.

    The two best things Lance did last night was swing the ball to the open guy (a lost art in today's game) and energize the team. Lance picked up at least 3-4 assists simply swinging the ball to an open shooter/player in position to score. He seemed much more willing to do this than when he was here.

    Also, with the Hornets being a younger team - I think Lance's emotional, flopping, over exaggerated way of playing will energize them more than annoy them (which seemed to often be the case here). Young cats can feed off things like that. Especially a guy that plays better when pumped up (Kemba)

    With that said, the Hornets HAVE to fix that offense. They went up against the Milwaukee Bucks and were getting spanked until the end. They don't have any significant injuries, so they'll definitely need to play better. With that said, they may just need time to improve their chemistry. It was game 1 of 82

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  21. #765
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    He got benched late in OT though didn't he? Wasn't on the court for the Hornets final possessions.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Only for a few possessions. They wanted to spread the floor with G.Neal (who had a big basket in OT over Parker)

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    He was also cramping. The team doc was stretching him out on the bench.

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  25. #768

    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    My schedule is tight at the moment (which is why I'm replying to these posts now instead of two days earlier) so I will have to make this quick.

    Please, stop lumping everyone into "pro-Lance" and "anti-Lance" groups and stop making assumptions. I never called Lance self centered or egotistical. I called him ambitious. Wanting to be the #1 perimeter option on one's team is not something egotistical. It's a common ambition among NBAers.

    I never refused to give Lance credit either. I was one of the people that wanted Lance to come off the bench at the start of last season's because I wanted Lance to have the ball in his hands when he was on the court instead of being the 5th option with the starters like he was in 12-13 (something that I thought would continue to happen in 13-14 but I was quickly proved wrong). I fully embraced the role that Frank gave to Lance in the 13-14 team and the freedom to act as a PG with both units. If you don't believe me, you are free to ask McKeyFan.

    I have never been "anti-Lance: or anything of that sort. I just don't think that his departure will eternally alter this team's title chances. I have said it before and I will say it again. I love each and every player of this team's core (and that included Lance and Danny up until their departures) but I only believe that two of them are irreplaceable. Those two players are Paul George and Roy Hibbert. Why do I believe that these two cannot be replaced? Because of their defense. The identity of this team has been centered around its defense ever since Vogel took charge. This is what defines and seperates this team from everyone else. I believe that as long as we have this defensive identity then we will be able to remain in contention and those two players are the ones that define our defensive identity. That's exactly why we cannot replace them. We can replace everyone's offensive production but we cannot replace Hibbert's and PG's defense.

    Yes, Lance was an invaluable member of this team. I never denied that. But he is not the cornerstone of our defense like Hibbert and PG and therefore he can be replaced. The same applied to Danny. The same applies to Hill and West. Yes, even David West. He has been absolutely vital for this team and he single-handledly won us that game 6 against the Hawks last year. He is one of the main reasons why this team has played great basketball after the lock-out season. It's not a coincidence that this team's upwards trajectory started after he signed with us. I'm absolutely certain that he played a big role in the development of all our young players. But I don't believe that the team will suffer when he retires (I want him to retire hire and to be hired by the FO in a coaching/scouting capacity).

    And yes, this is the short version of what I wanted to write
    That is fair enough and it is your opinion. Right now there is nobody on this team who can replace Lance and if he lives up to his potential there will be very few in the league who can replace him. We bring him in develope him to a point he is a very good NBA player who is just tapping his potential then lose him that might be devastating to this franchise. Even if you replace some of what he can do you are still just spinning your wheels. If Stuckey and Miles had been signed and we would have kept Lance somehow I would be very happy. We will just have to agree to disagree that Hibbert is replaceable I think he absolutely is because he limits the way your team can play.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He got benched late in OT though didn't he? Wasn't on the court for the Hornets final possessions.
    This kind of statement shows your bias against Lance. Just like they said he was cramping and the coach decided to spread the floor for Kemba. That hardly sounds like he was benched. They wouldn't have even been in the game if it wasn't for Lance's contributions he was a big part of their comeback. He is going to love playing with a team that runs. That just brings out his strengths even more.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Lol


    Quote Originally Posted by cdash
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    Yeah, that's the problem. I don't think anyone on this board is as big of a jerk in person as they come across on here. Except maybe Nuntius. Dude is impossibly nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    He is a saint, cdash. If a mosquito landed on his arm trying to bite him he would tell it " Go on son, do your thing".

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  29. #771
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by doctor-h View Post
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    That is fair enough and it is your opinion. Right now there is nobody on this team who can replace Lance and if he lives up to his potential there will be very few in the league who can replace him. We bring him in develope him to a point he is a very good NBA player who is just tapping his potential then lose him that might be devastating to this franchise. Even if you replace some of what he can do you are still just spinning your wheels. If Stuckey and Miles had been signed and we would have kept Lance somehow I would be very happy. We will just have to agree to disagree that Hibbert is replaceable I think he absolutely is because he limits the way your team can play.
    I think even if Lance turns out to be a superior player, losing a late second round draft pick who developed well is not going to be "devastating to this franchise". Just like San Antonio with Eurotalent, if Larry Bird can continue spotting players in the second round who have flaws that scare teams away and yet bring them in to develop then we'll recover. It just won't be Lance's team, it will be someone else's.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think even if Lance turns out to be a superior player, losing a late second round draft pick who developed well is not going to be "devastating to this franchise". Just like San Antonio with Eurotalent, if Larry Bird can continue spotting players in the second round who have flaws that scare teams away and yet bring them in to develop then we'll recover. It just won't be Lance's team, it will be someone else's.
    The difference is that San Antonio pretty much never lets talent get away for nothing. When they determined that they couldn't keep George Hill, they shipped him out for a draft pick that became a future Finals MVP.

    "Devastating" is a pretty arbitrary word. I guess I don't think that Lance leaving was "devastating", but it sucks pretty bad to get nothing for homegrown talent that you developed after getting a steal in the second round. Bird and the Pacers did the dirty work in developing the kid from scratch, but 45 and the Hive fans now get to reap the rewards.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The difference is that San Antonio pretty much never lets talent get away for nothing.
    I'd say their stars signing for less than market value is the biggest thing SA has going for them. It allows flexibility for other roster moves.
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