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Thread: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Lance is at his best pushing the ball up the floor and as a playmaker. He is not a stand in the corner guy whatsoever. After the defense is set, then he should give up the ball (assuming he doesn't have a clear opportunity.

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    Right. But he's a better stand-in-the-corner player ... once the defense is set ... than he is with the ball in his hands or attempting to iso.

    The relevant caveat - if he gets a pass and the defense is rotating (due to a DWest pick and roll, due to a double team to push Roy out of the post, etc.) then he's okay again at attacking the basket because there is a seam in the D. But he's rotten at attacking a set defense.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's an indication he shot averagely from one location, for one season. No one is denying that. But you have to look at the whole picture, and where their shots are coming from in order to determine their overall shooting ability.

    I think you'd balk at this logic if used on different players. If you honestly think that it doesn't matter whether or not they're at the rim or from 12 ft out (I'm assuming that extends to the 3pt line) then you should agree that Roy Hibbert is a better shooter than Kyle Korver. Roy's career FG% is 46%, Korver's is 44%. So it doesn't matter what type of shot they're taking, nor where they're taking them from, can you agree that Roy is a better shooter than Korver? Or does location and distance suddenly have merit?
    This is weak. A high percentage of Korver's shots are from 3. Exactly 75% were from 3 last year and he nailed 49% of them. I know you...and that you can do better than that.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Lance is at his best pushing the ball up the floor and as a playmaker. He is not a stand in the corner guy whatsoever. After the defense is set, then he should give up the ball (assuming he doesn't have a clear opportunity.
    Too bad his BB IQ is too low to understand this.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's an indication he shot averagely from one location, for one season. No one is denying that. But you have to look at the whole picture, and where their shots are coming from in order to determine their overall shooting ability.

    I think you'd balk at this logic if used on different players. If you honestly think that it doesn't matter whether or not they're at the rim or from 12 ft out (I'm assuming that extends to the 3pt line) then you should agree that Roy Hibbert is a better shooter than Kyle Korver. Roy's career FG% is 46%, Korver's is 44%. So it doesn't matter what type of shot they're taking, nor where they're taking them from, can you agree that Roy is a better shooter than Korver? Or does location and distance suddenly have merit?
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Ok...the love fest may officially be over. I need more information on this, but not a big fan of this.

    Lance has 9M/yr and his ex is asking for 12K/month to support his two kids. If he's actually fighting this...smh...this thread might as well be closed.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2348119
    Source: NY Daily News

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    It's a pretty common thing with any athlete making a significant amount of money these days. Considering $12,000 per month is something like less than 2% of what Lance currently makes per year, I'd probably just give her it and be done with the situation. Then again, I have no clue how he's spent his money and what not (although nothing leads me to believe he's done anything crazy with it).

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ok...the love fest may officially be over. I need more information on this, but not a big fan of this.

    Lance has 9M/yr and his ex is asking for 12K/month to support his two kids. If he's actually fighting this...smh...this thread might as well be closed.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2348119
    Source: NY Daily News
    I hear you. Comeon Lance.

    With that said, I am not sure about Lance's choices. Based on the fact this woman had 2 kids with Lance, there is a fair chance she herself is crazy. If this is the case I too would be wary about giving her $12,000 a month.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I hear you. Comeon Lance.

    With that said, I am not sure about Lance's choices. Based on the fact this woman had 2 kids with Lance, there is a fair chance she herself is crazy. If this is the case I too would be wary about giving her $12,000 a month.
    The issue isn't the woman it's that Lance isn't willing to share a tiny fraction of his fortune with his own two kids. SMH

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The issue isn't the woman it's that Lance isn't willing to share a tiny fraction of his fortune with his own two kids. SMH
    I hear you. It could be as clear cut as you fear.

    However, having been through domestic and custody issues, I can assure you that these things can be far more complex and murky than you can possibly imagine. You'd need to read some pretty detailed court documents before even beginning to form a reasonable assessment.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I hear you. It could be as clear cut as you fear.

    However, having been through domestic and custody issues, I can assure you that these things can be far more complex and murky than you can possibly imagine. You'd need to read some pretty detailed court documents before even beginning to form a reasonable assessment.
    Yeah that being said two kids and she is only asking for 12k a month, while that would be a lot for me. He made 9 million last year his kids should be taken care of. On top of that they live in NY, its an expensive place to live, 12k does not go as far there as it does here.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I hear you. It could be as clear cut as you fear.

    However, having been through domestic and custody issues, I can assure you that these things can be far more complex and murky than you can possibly imagine. You'd need to read some pretty detailed court documents before even beginning to form a reasonable assessment.
    I agree that there can be more involved...and always is with domestic relations cases. Most people are or know people close to them who have divorced and they've seen it up close. Too complex to get into really.

    ....But if he is contending the 12K/yr and there is no other financial arrangement involved to support his kids, it's pretty tough to explain that one.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This is weak. A high percentage of Korver's shots are from 3. Exactly 75% were from 3 last year and he nailed 49% of them. I know you...and that you can do better than that.
    You said it doesn't matter where the shot is being taken from, now you're pointing out that Korver shoots a lot of 3s. Imagine that, logical inconsistency when applied to someone not named Lance.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I'm not the one claiming he's a terrible shooter...or really even saying he's a good shooter. All I am saying is that if he's converting 50% of his shots like he did in Indiana, he is "shooting" well. If he's hitting 35% of his threes, that is some indication that he can shoot OK. But I'm not the one really making statements about the technicalities of shooting the basketball. I am saying at the end of the day he's converting shots. To me, it doesn't matter too much if they are at the rim or 12 feet out...as long as the team has a mix of other players who can stretch the floor (like George Hill). It is a team game. You need more than 5 Kyle Korvers...although a couple would really help us....
    Pointing out shot location was a "technicality" before, and you weren't doing it, but here you are doing exactly that. Using the same exact argument that you just argued against.
    Last edited by Since86; 09-04-2015 at 09:24 AM.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You said it doesn't matter where the shot is being taken from, now you're pointing out that Korver shoots a lot of 3s. Imagine that, logical inconsistency when applied to someone not named Lance.



    Pointing out shot location was a "technicality" before, and you weren't doing it, but here you are doing exactly that. Using the same exact argument that you just argued against.
    I meant for 2 point shot attempts. 50% from the rim is worth 50% from 12 feet out.

    Just take a little time to compare the points per shot attempt between Korver and Hibbert. The fact Korver almost shoots the same percentage as Roy means he scores almost 50% more per attempt.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I meant for 2 point shot attempts. 50% from the rim is worth 50% from 12 feet out.

    Just take a little time to compare the points per shot attempt between Korver and Hibbert. The fact Korver almost shoots the same percentage as Roy means he scores almost 50% more per attempt.
    Isn't this getting dangerously close to using (*gasp*) an advanced stat like tFG% or eFG%?
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I meant for 2 point shot attempts. 50% from the rim is worth 50% from 12 feet out.

    Just take a little time to compare the points per shot attempt between Korver and Hibbert. The fact Korver almost shoots the same percentage as Roy means he scores almost 50% more per attempt.
    So shooting the ball is the exact same from 0ft to 21ft, but once it gets to 22ft, it completely changes. Yep, that's the logic you're working with.

    And notice I'm not talking about points. Points are obvious. We're talking about ability to SHOOT the basketball. Go out on a basketball floor and shoot the ball right in front of the rim. Now go shoot from 21ft. Which is more difficult to hit?
    Last edited by Since86; 09-04-2015 at 09:39 AM.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Isn't this getting dangerously close to using (*gasp*) an advanced stat like tFG% or eFG%?
    Exactly that.

    EDIT: And that also means that DeAndre Jordan is a better shooter than Korver. eFG% is adjusted for the difference between two's and three's, DJ's eFG% is 74.8%. Korver's is 67.1%. Greg Stiemsma, Brandan Wright, DeAndre Jordan. The top 3 shooters in the NBA.
    Last edited by Since86; 09-04-2015 at 10:00 AM.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Are we really arguing whether or not Lance is a good shooter?

    He has shown the ability to convert a high percentage around the rim, and to be at least respectable from 3. But that was a single season. Beyond that, he was below average from 3 and even lower than that from any other location except right at the rim.

    Being a good finisher and being a good shooter are two different things. It's pretty clear-cut.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    He has shown the ability to convert a high percentage around the rim, and to be at least respectable from 3. But that was a single season. Beyond that, he was below average from 3 and even lower than that from any other location except right at the rim.
    I think the issue is not how good someone is at finishing around the rim so much as how often they do so.

    For example, centers are judged very harshly for "only" shooting in the 50% range around the rim, because that is what they are supposed to do, and since it is where they should be taking most of their shots (in traditional positioning) the expectation is that a center's shooting percentage should be held to a higher standard than someone who shoots from farther outside. It's one of the huge knocks on Roy's offense, that he cannot hit more shots from a dominant position at the basket (because the man just doesn't dunk).

    For Lance, it means that even if he DOES shoot 50% at the rim, if he only does it (say) 10% of the time then it is ineffective. The question is, of course, "why?" and the answer could range from "it isn't his function in the offense" to "he can only drive under specific favorable circumstances". Simply using his at-the-rim numbers as a raw evaluation of talent is cherry-picking.
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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So shooting the ball is the exact same from 0ft to 21ft, but once it gets to 22ft, it completely changes. Yep, that's the logic you're working with.

    And notice I'm not talking about points. Points are obvious. We're talking about ability to SHOOT the basketball. Go out on a basketball floor and shoot the ball right in front of the rim. Now go shoot from 21ft. Which is more difficult to hit?
    Steve Alford was a tremendous shooter...and how did his career go? IOW, I don't think it matters if a player is a great shooter if the results don't show on the court. Similarly, it doesn't matter much if a player is a poor shooter if he's still converting shots. That's Lance if you want to call him a poor shooter. At the end of the day, he can still be more effective than many players...and Alford is the poster boy for that.

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    Default Re: All things Lance Stephenson thread for the next year or so

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Steve Alford was a tremendous shooter...and how did his career go? IOW, I don't think it matters if a player is a great shooter if the results don't show on the court. Similarly, it doesn't matter much if a player is a poor shooter if he's still converting shots. That's Lance if you want to call him a poor shooter. At the end of the day, he can still be more effective than many players...and Alford is the poster boy for that.
    Yeah, because more skills are needed than just shooting to be a bona fide NBA player. No one is saying Lance doesn't have the skills to be an NBA player. Instead what is being said is specific to one thing, shooting. Lance isn't a good shooter.
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