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Thread: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Why in the world would Kevin Ward Jr., get out of his car at Stewart, on a dirt track race.Is that normal at these races? Is he trying to make Sport Center or something?
    If he dislikes Stewart as much as I do, he probably got out because Stewart is a jerk and wanted to let him know he's a jerk. I haven't really followed racing much in recent years but I think Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch are two of the biggest a-holes in racing. Unfortunately, Kevin Ward Jr., letting Tony Stewart know how he feels about him, results in Kevin Ward Jr. making the obituaries. I'm not gonna watch the video because it led to someone dying but it sounds like Stewart was being a dick and it caused an accidental death. I'd have to watch it and I doubt Stewart did it intentionally. It does sound like Stewart was being a dick though and I don't know why he should get a free pass for killing someone while someone like Plaxico Burress gets prison time for accidentally shooting himself.
    Last edited by TOP; 08-10-2014 at 03:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Ward was an idiot for going onto the track like that. From what I've heard, he nearly got nailed by one car before he got to Tony. There's absolutely no reason for him to have been up there.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    I don't think the first car actually almost hit Ward but I do think the car swerved... to give him even more room...
    Had Stewart laid off the throttle he could've done the same. I think, as Dave said above, Tony was looking to 'buzz' him and it went horribly wrong. He didn't intend to hit him, but he did.

    Ward shouldn't have been on the track there... but he was.

    The first car going by him arguably shows there was room. If Stewart would've chosen to do what that car did then we're likely not having this conversation. Instead he blipped the throttle, lost the rear end... and collected Ward as Stewart was gathering it back up.

    I have no doubt Stewart will be sued and it will be settled. There's no winning on a civil angle and simply the only thing to argue is mitigating circumstances which will impact the final numbers.

    OTOH, prosecution is a whole other ball of wax. I think the prosecutor could easily make a case. Depending on what Tony has said already, plus what he's said versus what is on video, it could even be an easy case. Or maybe video totally backs up his words. I think the throttle blip is going to be hard to explain. But there are mitigating circumstances with Ward being out of his car, the black uniform, etc.... And the prosecutor might see political and financial reasons not to make this case. We're really into uncharted territory here on the track. IMHO...

    I suspect there won't be charges but I wouldn't be shocked if there were. But civil charges I think basically are certain. In fact I see them as so much of a slam dunk that there's simply no doubt.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Why in the world would Kevin Ward Jr., get out of his car at Stewart, on a dirt track race.Is that normal at these races? Is he trying to make Sport Center or something?
    he learned it from guys like Stewart



    not that I follow racing, but how that stuff not only doesn't result in an automatic suspension, but seems to be encouraged, is mind boggling

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    he learned it from guys like Stewart



    not that I follow racing, but how that stuff not only doesn't result in an automatic suspension, but seems to be encouraged, is mind boggling
    Tony wasn't smart in that case either, but he also wasn't in the freaking racing line when he chucked that helmet.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    FYI.... For those that have watched the Deadspin accident video there is a distinct difference in the audio synch between that video and this one. I'm not going to embed it and you'll need to add the www. to make it work. youtube.com/watch?v=_QJdBd0437U
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    http://www.motorsport.com/sprint/new...he-whole-story

    By: Steven Cole Smith, Editor in Chief, Motorsport.com
    Posted: 11 hours ago
    Incomprehensible tragedy occurs Saturday night at a dirt track in New York.

    Many of you will wake up to the incomprehensible news that Tony Stewart was responsible for the death of a fellow racer last night. It’s true. But you need to know the whole story – or at least as complete as it is at 5 a.m. ET, when I write this.

    There is no denying that the death Saturday night of 20-year-old sprint car driver Kevin Ward, Jr., killed when he was struck by the right rear tire of a sprint car driven by NASCAR star Tony Stewart, is a tragedy almost beyond comprehension.

    His team released a brief statement, but it is generic and probably vetted by lawyers: “A tragic accident took place last night during a sprint car race in which Tony Stewart was participating. Tony was unhurt, but a fellow competitor lost his life. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends. We’re still attempting to sort through all the details and we appreciate your understanding during this difficult time."

    Making it so much worse is the excruciating contention, repeated literally hundreds of times last night on social media, that Stewart swerved into Ward intentionally.

    According to a video of the incident, Stewart was inside the young Empire Super Sprint driver going into turn two of Canandaigua Speedway in upstate New York. Stewart drifted high, and Ward, running out of room, touched the outside wall, spinning completely one time, and coming to a stop pointing in the wrong direction, his right rear tire flat.

    He climbed from his car, and began striding down the track, obviously looking for Stewart, whose car was approaching at a reduced speed under the caution flag, but still traveling at perhaps 40 mph. Ward was pointing a finger at Stewart’s car and moved toward it.

    It appears Stewart saw him at the last second, and swerved, but still hit Ward hard enough to toss him like a rag doll at least 20 feet down the track. An autopsy is pending, but it seems likely Ward suffered a broken neck, though he still had his helmet and head restraint device on, but the device only works when you are strapped into your car. Stewart stopped about a hundred feet down the track. Emergency workers were there in second. Indeed, Stewart may have hit the gas, but you steer sprint cars with the throttle more than with the steering wheel. The idea that he accelerated trying to hit Ward is beyond the pale.
    How could this happen?

    I have driven winged sprint cars, and as you can imagine, visibility to the side is horrible. Ward was wearing a mostly black fire suit and a black helmet. The idea that any driver would purposely hit another over what was a comparatively minor, that’s-racing incident is hard to swallow. That Tony Stewart would do it on purpose? That is unthinkable.

    There are so many sad coincidences here that the mind reels. This is the same track where, just over one year ago, Stewart sparked a 17-car collision that sent two drivers to the hospital, including a 19-year-old female racer.

    And just a few days ago, it was the one-year anniversary of Stewart’s own crash in a 360-cubic-inch sprint car identical to the one he was driving Saturday night, breaking his leg so severely in two places that he had to miss the rest of the NASCAR Sprint Cup season.

    Let me correct one thing I just said: The car Stewart was driving Saturday night was fitted with several safety features that Stewart helped develop, based on his crash and the death of three sprint car drivers last year, including NASCAR driver Jason Leffler. Those safety features included tethers similar to the ones used in IndyCar, and a re-enforced tunnel for the torque tube, which is essentially a driveshaft that runs between the driver’s legs. That tube rupturing is what injured Stewart. He told me earlier this year that if anything good came from his crash that -- like it did when the death of Dale Earnhardt occurred – safety innovations were developed that have likely saved other driver’s lives.

    And a final irony is that Saturday night, 820 miles due west from Canandaigua, New York, the biggest sprint car race of the year was being held – the Knoxville Nationals, in Knoxville, Iowa, featuring all the World of Outlaws sprint car stars, and the top drivers from other series. The feature there was just about to get rolling when Stewart’s accident occurred. The winner of the Knoxville Nationals, for the eighth time – Donny Schatz, who drives for team owner Tony Stewart. In fact, Stewart was in Knoxville earlier this week, cheering on his team, which also includes soon-to-retire sprint car legend Steve Kinser.
    Why does Stewart do it?

    After Stewart’s own crash, he took a lot of criticism about how someone of his stature should not be racing sprint cars – that so many employees and sponsors depended on him, that he simply shouldn’t participate in something so dangerous. Some of those people will be waiting for a respectful time to pass before they say, “I told you so.” Others won’t even wait that long.

    Stewart said that of all the types of cars he has driven, winged sprint cars were the most challenging, and that he needed to challenge himself. Some of his fellow drivers understood, others did not.

    Not long ago, I asked NASCAR driver Greg Biffle – who, like Stewart, came up racing on short tracks – what he thought of the fact that a healed-up Stewart had said that he was about to go back to sprint car racing.

    It’s in our blood. Driving race cars is what we do.

    Greg Biffle

    This is what Biffle said:

    “It’s in our blood. Driving race cars is what we do. I like to ride dirt bikes and ride my ATVs and I have a sand car, and if somebody told me I couldn’t do that anymore I’d be devastated. I’m different from Tony, or Kasey Kahne or Clint Bowyer – I get my fill of racing from NASCAR, so my fun activity is to get to go play in the sand or the desert. That’s what I love to do.

    “So I know where he’s coming from. That’s what he enjoys, what he loves, that’s what he’s done since he was a little kid. No matter what you do, racing or not, we could all get hit by a bus when we cross the street. We should all be able to do something you love, and that’s what he loves to do.”

    As for what he gets out of sprint cars: He did a conference call with some of us just after he returned to sprint car racing on July 18, winning his first time out at the Tri-City Speedway, a dirt track in Michigan, where he showed up unannounced to run a 360 sprint with the SOD (Sprints on Dirt) series.

    “I just like it,” Stewart said. “I've always liked dirt racing. I've always liked racing Sprint cars, and it's just what I enjoy doing. Everybody has hobbies. Everybody has stuff they like to do when they have downtime, and that's just what it is for me. That's what I like to do when I have extra time.”
    The coming storm

    As I write this, it is difficult – impossible, really – to imagine the storm that is about to rain down on sprint car racing in general, Tony Stewart in particular. Having covered him since his original short-track days, I wish I could tell you about the charitable deeds you don’t know about. About how we once admitted to each other that we each had a Chihuahua dog, that happened to sleep in our bed, and how we must never again say that out loud in public. About how, when he briefly owned a few racing Greyhounds, that he would fly them to new owners in his private jet when they retired.

    Tony Stewart is as gruff as they come, but he has the biggest heart of any professional driver I have ever known. I can only imagine how his heart is broken for causing the death of another young driver, and to have people insisting that he did it on purpose.

    I can imagine how bad that is: I can not imagine what the friends and family of Kevin Ward, Jr. – described in one Facebook post by a friend as “the nicest folks who ever walked the earth” – must be going through.

    This story will be enormous, the repercussions far-reaching and likely devastating on multiple levels. No matter what happens at the NASCAR Sprint Cup race this afternoon at Watkins Glen, where Stewart is supposed to start 13th – the number of Kevin Ward’s sprint car – this tragedy will eclipse everything, and will for a long time.

    I’m praying for Kevin Ward’s family, and for Tony Stewart. If you are so inclined, maybe you can, too.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    I understand drivers getting out of their cars when they are on fire, but watching what this kid did was one of the dumbest things I have ever watched. Yes, the cars had slowed down, but even under caution those cars are still going really fast and to put yourself right in the middle of it was just creating the opportune for a tragedy to happen.

    I keep reading about how Tony should be charged for murder, but given the circumstances all I can see is this being a horrible accident because two guys let their tempers get the best of them.
    agree. incredibly dumb of the guy to hop out there and do what he did. there was no reason to get out of the car. unless it's on fire, you are much, much safer inside. wait until the tow people come out. if ya got a beef with another driver, wait until you both are off the damn track.
    edit: don't wanna come across as unsympathetic but christ, that is incredibly dangerous getting out there in the equivalent of rush hour traffic on an interstate.
    Last edited by clownskull; 08-11-2014 at 01:28 AM.

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  12. #34
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Why in the world would Kevin Ward Jr., get out of his car at Stewart, on a dirt track race.Is that normal at these races? Is he trying to make Sport Center or something?
    Not if you're smart, it's not. Unless you are on fire. Then it's perfectly acceptable to get out.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    I was waiting on someone to mention that you steer these things more with the gas pedal than the steering wheel. It could be that Tony didn't see him until it was too late, and the "alleged" gunning of the engine was actually him trying to steer to avoid him. I say "alleged" becuase it's not at all clear that the engine sound is even coming from Tony's car, especially in light of the fact that several doctored videos are now circulating. This thread title is really misleading. Makes it sound like Tony lined it up and ran him over on purpose.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Did Tony kill him with his car? Yes. Are police investigating? Yes. There's nothing misleading here.

    The driver had no business being on the track but Tony also had no business being that close to the driver. He killed a man. Period.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-11-2014 at 09:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    but Tony also had no business being that close to the driver.
    For what its worth, one of the guys on the crew of the 45 car that nearly hit Ward before Tony did said that his driver saw the guy at the last second and that Tony had even less time to react than his driver did. I'm not sure theres anything Tony could have done. I'm not even sure that he knew that he even knocked the guy out of the race in the first place.

    It's a tragic accident, plain and simple.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Yep. So tragic Tony had to be told not to race the next day. He was obviously shaken by it.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    IMO, you can absolutely see Tony's car coming back in line as he hits Ward. It was correcting from the slight side he induced by gunning the engine off camera.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I was waiting on someone to mention that you steer these things more with the gas pedal than the steering wheel. It could be that Tony didn't see him until it was too late, and the "alleged" gunning of the engine was actually him trying to steer to avoid him. I say "alleged" becuase it's not at all clear that the engine sound is even coming from Tony's car, especially in light of the fact that several doctored videos are now circulating. This thread title is really misleading. Makes it sound like Tony lined it up and ran him over on purpose.
    Good point. Also, the way the brakes are set up, if you stomp the brake pedal it will induce the same behavior.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    I'll just say this. Police said from the very beginning that Tony cooperated fully with their investigation, and that the investigation was not criminal in nature. There is plenty of video out there, some genuine some not, and there were hundreds of witnesses at the exact spot that it took place. And despite all of this, the prosecutor has said no charges will be filed. That won't stop people from saying Tony should be behind bars, but that doesn't make them right. It was an accident. Tragic for sure, but still an accident.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    I don't think the DA has said that no charges will be filed. Just that none were pending at this time.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Root cause analysis. The criminal courts will look at it this way. That being said, Stewart and others are probably in for a whole world of hurt in the civil litigation world.

    From Wiki as I don't have time to open the textbook:

    "A root cause is a cause that once removed from the problem fault sequence, prevents the final undesirable event from recurring. A causal factor is a factor that affects an event's outcome, but is not a root cause. Though removing a causal factor can benefit an outcome, it does not prevent its recurrence for certain."

    What was the first act to cause the fatal chain of events? Accident between Ward and Stewart. Remove this and the event doesn't occur. But this is racing and you cannot remove car wrecks and spin outs.

    What was the first non-racing-related act to cause the fatal chain of events? Ward leaving his car and traveling down the track on foot. Remove this event and the event doesn't occur.

    Proving any intent beyond a reasonable doubt will be quite difficult and improbable in this situation in a criminal court.

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I was waiting on someone to mention that you steer these things more with the gas pedal than the steering wheel. It could be that Tony didn't see him until it was too late, and the "alleged" gunning of the engine was actually him trying to steer to avoid him. I say "alleged" becuase it's not at all clear that the engine sound is even coming from Tony's car, especially in light of the fact that several doctored videos are now circulating. This thread title is really misleading. Makes it sound like Tony lined it up and ran him over on purpose.
    Yup you basically have use the gas pedal steer these things. They are basically drifting around the entire track, feathering the throttle all the way around depending on how high they are on the track. Now I would say it certainly possible Stewart was trying to scare the kid, but really that is sort of analyzing a person's thoughts in the spit second of time he had to make a decision. I say thats pretty unfair, regardless of how tony stewart normally behave on the track .
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Root cause analysis. The criminal courts will look at it this way. That being said, Stewart and others are probably in for a whole world of hurt in the civil litigation world.

    From Wiki as I don't have time to open the textbook:

    "A root cause is a cause that once removed from the problem fault sequence, prevents the final undesirable event from recurring. A causal factor is a factor that affects an event's outcome, but is not a root cause. Though removing a causal factor can benefit an outcome, it does not prevent its recurrence for certain."

    What was the first act to cause the fatal chain of events? Accident between Ward and Stewart. Remove this and the event doesn't occur. But this is racing and you cannot remove car wrecks and spin outs.

    What was the first non-racing-related act to cause the fatal chain of events? Ward leaving his car and traveling down the track on foot. Remove this event and the event doesn't occur.

    Proving any intent beyond a reasonable doubt will be quite difficult and improbable in this situation in a criminal court.
    The debate will be if root cause is the act of Ward getting out of his car and walking towards the traffic or Tony blipping the throttle. Tony is going to have to explain that throttle action. I'm assuming he probably already has either explained it in some form, or denied he gassed it.

    If he said he didn't see the kid and didn't expect someone to be standing on the track there and just happened to blip the throttle in that corner to test his suspension after being in an accident then that's probably an end to any chance of criminal charges. If he says he saw the kid at the last minute and reflexes took over and he jerked the wheel and instinctively gassed it then that is probably an end to any chance of criminal charges (if video doesn't dispute that).

    OTOH, if he denies gassing it and the video (and/or other witnesses) shows definitively he did, or if he actually admitted to doing it to intimidate Ward but had no intent to hit him then he will be in potential trouble. Intent doesn't matter at all.

    Stewart's 'cooperation', while maybe the moral thing to do, will be frowned upon by his attorney I imagine.
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Whatever happens I really doubt there's going to be a public statement from Stewart on it, beyond the one he already put out, for a long, long time

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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    stupid across the board. Don't get out of the car, Ward. Don't be an asshat, Tony. Sad, I doubt any real punishment comes from this though.
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  32. #48
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    The debate will be if root cause is the act of Ward getting out of his car and walking towards the traffic or Tony blipping the throttle. Tony is going to have to explain that throttle action. I'm assuming he probably already has either explained it in some form, or denied he gassed it.

    If he said he didn't see the kid and didn't expect someone to be standing on the track there and just happened to blip the throttle in that corner to test his suspension after being in an accident then that's probably an end to any chance of criminal charges. If he says he saw the kid at the last minute and reflexes took over and he jerked the wheel and instinctively gassed it then that is probably an end to any chance of criminal charges (if video doesn't dispute that).

    OTOH, if he denies gassing it and the video (and/or other witnesses) shows definitively he did, or if he actually admitted to doing it to intimidate Ward but had no intent to hit him then he will be in potential trouble. Intent doesn't matter at all.

    Stewart's 'cooperation', while maybe the moral thing to do, will be frowned upon by his attorney I imagine.
    Question, everybody says they hear a throttle blip before the Ward gets run over. But honestly the video was taken from across the speedway. there are probably a dozen or so cars on the track. That throttle blip could have been from a car that was closer to the stands where the video was taken. If you have ever been do these kinds of tracks. The drivers don't typically have a caution flag cruise control on their engines. They have to keep the revs above a certain level to avoid stalling out. You'd hear plenty of cars blip the throttle to keep their engines over a certain level. Many of these cars are not very drivable at low speeds.

    I just remember my days at the Speed Drome in Indianapolis, and those cars would be revving their engine all the time under caution. Dirt Track racing is also about giving the fans a great time as well as winning. So they rev those engines and make all sorts of noise going around the track under caution.
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  34. #49

    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    I've yet to see evidence that Tony Stewart did anything wrong. I must be blind.

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  36. #50
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    Default Re: Tony Stewart kills another driver (Kevin Ward jr.) with his car. Police involved

    Here is something new: http://powernationtv.com/post/fellow...lOrDt.facebook

    Embedded in the comments is the slow-mo video.around the 11 second mark, it seems like Ward jumped up and grabbed onto the car's wing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XvhrPu64Co

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