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Thread: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

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    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Do you think we make a stronger offer to retain him?

    I know it doesn't matter, but it's an interesting thought.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    No, I think we offered what we could.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Lance didn't give us an opportunity to match Charlotte's offer.

    At the end of the day he ultimately did not want to be here.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    At the end of the day he ultimately did not want to be here.
    I think that feeling was pretty mutual. If the Pacers really wanted him here, he would be here.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I think that feeling was pretty mutual. If the Pacers really wanted him here, he would be here.
    I am not too sure about that. I certainly believe we wanted him back, but at the right price.

    I doubt we would have offered him 45 million bucks if we had no desire to see him return.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Lance didn't give us an opportunity to match Charlotte's offer.

    At the end of the day he ultimately did not want to be here.
    Before Lance signed with Charlotte, Herb Simon said this: “We made him a wonderful offer and they didn’t think it was enough, so it’s a simple situation,”

    We can all debate what is or is not a wonderful offer. But from my perspective, the statement in bold means "we ain't matching, goodbye and good riddance!". In other words, I don't think Herb Simon lost any sleep when Lance Stephenson decided to move on. It wasn't like he came out and said we really want Lance to be in Indy. It was "Hey dude, we gave you a "wonderful" offer and you can just hit the road if it's not good enough. I ain't gonna shed a tear....".

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    It doesn't change the financial situation. Do you think we would have gone over the LT in a year where attendance was likely to drop because our best guy - and, sorry, PG was by far our best guy - got a season-ender?
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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I am not too sure about that. I certainly believe we wanted him back, but at the right price.

    I doubt we would have offered him 45 million bucks if we had no desire to see him return.
    I just think if he was viewed as an integral part of this team going forward, they would have left some wiggle room for negotiations and not gone out and signed guys before Lance made up his mind. It's not like the CJ Miles-level guys would not be available a few weeks into free agency. To me, you don't make "take it or leave it" offers to indispensable guys.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I just think if he was viewed as an integral part of this team going forward, they would have left some wiggle room for negotiations and not gone out and signed guys before Lance made up his mind. It's not like the CJ Miles-level guys would not be available a few weeks into free agency. To me, you don't make "take it or leave it" offers to indispensable guys.
    Best post on this topic. There is no doubt and Lance knew the CJ signing meant they were ready to cut ties and were not going to pursue him. ...and he wanted the love.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    I don't believe this question is being answered correctly. If Paul George was injured before Lance signed, I STRONGLY believe Lance would have signed with Indiana. My gut still tells me that he only signed with Charlotte, because he didn't want to be in Paul George's shadow. If there was no Paul George, I strongly believe that Vogel would have given him more plays and play calling duties on the court. Charlotte's deal wasn't exactly a no-brainer contract when compared to Indiana's. Opinions may vary, but Lance was the second best talent on the team. The only player who could dethrone him would have been Hibbert. However, if Hibbert pays like first half 2013 HIbbert, then it would have been a plus, plus for us. Lance didn't mind giving Hibbert touches, but it was Hibbert who would give nothing out of those touches.

    Having no Paul George on the court would have been an ideal situation for Lance.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Yes, in a nutshell. We could have done more had we wanted him more. We wanted him, but at our price. We could have cut Scola to match the Hornets offer. We could have made his salary elevate each year after West/Hibbert came off the books in 2 years if Lance wanted a longer deal. We simply saw risk in Lance & set a price. He didn't like the price & left. Had PG been out 1st, yes I think we do 1 of the above to keep him. It's over & done now.

    Miles/Rudez signings could also be looked at as us sending Lance a message of "We can survive w/o you. If you want to be a Pacer take the offer." At the end of the day he took a maybe/maybe not better offer so he wasn't wanting to stay that much. We wouldn't even cut Scola to bump up his pay (think we wouldn't have done that for PG in a heartbeat?) So we didn't want him that much either. Mutual split by semi willing to work together partners.

    In a simple 1 word answer however, would we have paid him more if we knew no PG next year? YES!

    I read an article yesterday on how PG's loss is estimated at a $50 million dollar net loss to the Pacers next year overall. Simon's a business man.
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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    The other question is after Lance saw the injury to Paul George does it make him think again about not taking that long term security?

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    The other question is after Lance saw the injury to Paul George does it make him think again about not taking that long term security?
    Like 30 million isn't long-term security...lol

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    he didn't want to be in Paul George's shadow. If there was no Paul George, I strongly believe that Vogel would have given him more plays and play calling duties on the court.
    It wasn't just those things. It was also that he had two centers he couldn't pass to (and Lance said in his presser making the assist was his favorite thing to do.) I'm guessing he'll get a few more assists next year passing to Jefferson. And it was playing slog ball next to George Hill and now he'll be pepping things up with Kemba Walker.

    He also will have a new coach. Both are apparently good on defense, but the Charlotte coach may have a little more common sense on the offensive side.
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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    It wasn't just those things. It was also that he had two centers he couldn't pass to (and Lance said in his presser making the assist was his favorite thing to do.) I'm guessing he'll get a few more assists next year passing to Jefferson. And it was playing slog ball next to George Hill and now he'll be pepping things up with Kemba Walker.

    He also will have a new coach. Both are apparently good on defense, but the Charlotte coach may have a little more common sense on the offensive side.
    Oh, I'm sure Jefferson will catch the ball better. But once he gets it he is going to go create his own shot so assists won't come to Lance that way.

    And I don't see the Kemba match being very good; it'll be like watching PG and Lance try to run a 2 on 1 fast break. They're both acting like they want to do the team thing and get the ball to whoever's open, but in reality they're both trying to time the passes so they get to be the one to score.
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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Like 30 million isn't long-term security...lol
    It depends on how many people you are securing with your bank account....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    The other question is after Lance saw the injury to Paul George does it make him think again about not taking that long term security?
    I don't know about the long term security but I bet it made him have second thoughts when he realized the opportunity he would've had had he stayed a Pacer after PG went down. Even if nobody else in Pacerland thought that would've made Lance the #1 option and star of the show (and I think that most would've accepted he'd get that opportunity), I think Lance would've thought he'd be getting it for sure and running with it.

    As for long term security, I think Lance and/or his agent think it's a done deal what he will be making on his next contract and so think they are thinking bigger picture than the Pacers' offer in the first place.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    He also will have a new coach. Both are apparently good on defense, but the Charlotte coach may have a little more common sense on the offensive side.
    Wasn't Charlotte one of the worst offensive teams in the league last season? Worse than (gasp!) the Pacers?

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by larry View Post
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    Miles/Rudez signings could also be looked at as us sending Lance a message of "We can survive w/o you.
    This doesn't really change your argument.....and it's a really minor point of clarification.....but the Pacers...NO MATTER WHAT....had to sign 3 other Players ( outside of Lance ) to fill the roster. So Rudez's $1 mil a year contract would have made little difference.

    Signing CJ Miles this early on the other hand.....before knowing what happened to Lance.....
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan_The_Dude View Post
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    The other question is after Lance saw the injury to Paul George does it make him think again about not taking that long term security?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    As for long term security, I think Lance and/or his agent think it's a done deal what he will be making on his next contract and so think they are thinking bigger picture than the Pacers' offer in the first place.
    I said this earlier.....I think that Lance was looking for the best 3 year deal that he can get with the most guaranteed Money. The Player Option in Year 4 and 5 is a "nice to have" ( as in a nice Security Blanket )....but I think that Lance and his Agent were banking on him bolting to Free Agency again for the next Big Pay Day after Year 3. So, I don't think that it really matter to him in the end.

    I don't blame him.......he has to take care of his family after living off of a Rookie Minimum 2nd round contract.

    I just wish that the Pacers decided to offer him a comparable Contract offer beforehand.

    or

    Maybe they did.....but Lance / Agent wanted to be on a Team with a bigger role so that he can "shine brighter"....so he was planning on leaving Indy regardless.

    I have no idea.....whatever. I'm done with Lance.....I wish him well, but he's not a Pacer anymore
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-10-2014 at 04:11 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Like 30 million isn't long-term security...lol
    Some NBA players didn't get the memo.



    Allen Iverson Earned Over $200 Million In His NBA Career - Forbes

    Iverson stood during a divorce proceeding in Atlanta in 2012 and pulled out his pants pockets. “I don’t even have money for a cheeseburger".

    Antoine Walker blew through $110 million in just two years and was forced to file for bankruptcy - Daily Mail

    'You create a lifestyle for yourself,' he told ESPN. 'You're spending a lot of money as you're living through a 13-year NBA career.'

    But in May 2010 he filed for bankruptcy - declaring $12.7million in debts and just $4.3million remaining from his fortune.


    I do agree with you that any normal person would easily be able to live off 30 million for the rest of their life should they acquire that much. Some people have expensive taste and are too immature/stupid to manage their money though. If your family left you 30 million the day you were born, that's 300,000 a year til the age of 100. If you can't live off 300 grand a year for 100 years, you're to blame. At least Reebok had a 30 million dollar trust fund for Iverson.

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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
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    Some NBA players didn't get the memo.



    Allen Iverson Earned Over $200 Million In His NBA Career - Forbes




    Antoine Walker blew through $110 million in just two years and was forced to file for bankruptcy - Daily Mail





    I do agree with you that any normal person would easily be able to live off 30 million for the rest of their life should they acquire that much. Some people have expensive taste and are too immature/stupid to manage their money though. If your family left you 30 million the day you were born, that's 300,000 a year til the age of 100. If you can't live off 300 grand a year for 100 years, you're to blame. At least Reebok had a 30 million dollar trust fund for Iverson.
    Agreed and all that. But my comment had two layers to it. First was the obvious that 30 million is long term security. The second is that IF 30 million isn't long term security, I'm not exactly sure why 45 million would somehow be long term security just because it's MORE money on top of a mountain of money.

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  36. #23

    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Too bad Stephenson didn't stay man. He could of been the star of the team this year. We lost our 2 best players from last season just like that. Crazy..

  37. #24
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    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    I was a proponent of Lance staying... but I don't think much of this idea that we'd have done things differently for the long term if we knew Paul was going to be injured for ONE YEAR.

  38. #25

    Default Re: If Paul was injured before Lance officially signed...

    Ultimately Lance's behavior in the ECF killed his future here.

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