View Poll Results: Should Pacers Rebuild for 2015?

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  • Rebuild trading for picks and young prospects

    26 38.81%
  • Stand pat with remaining core and give it one more shot

    26 38.81%
  • Retool trading for a couple more vets

    9 13.43%
  • Only a Blockbuster trade or signing will help

    6 8.96%
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Thread: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

  1. #76

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Do we really know how much the wrist injury contributed to his poor season?
    Well it was to his right wrist, which is his dominant hand, so for a guy who's majority of his low post game comes from a hook shot, I would assume it did have a big reason as to why he struggled, also not to mention once it healed and he stopped wearing the tape/band around his wrist he had a very good 2nd half to the year, and put up about 13/8-14/9 or something similar

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Do we really know how much the wrist injury contributed to his poor season?
    Poor season? He started poorly, but ended great.

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  5. #78

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    I picked the BIG trade because it was as close as I could come to my desired option. I agree with Peck for he most part.
    I would like to see us trade West to a real contender for 2 or more talented, cheap, young players we could mentor. a mobile, defense minded PF and a PG would be perfect. Not talking superstars, here, just talented young players.
    I think this type of trade will probably come along sometime before the deadline after contending teams know for sure what they need to finish the season. However, if D. West wants to be traded to a contender earlier, I think we pull the trigger.

  6. #79
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    But all your looking at is offense, Paul George is one of the best 2-way players in the NBA (pre-injury). Even when his shot wasn't falling, he was still playing terrific defense.
    I thought Paul played elite D in the first 1/3 of the season and Lance was decent. Our perimeter D checked out in December and was below average IMO at the end of the season. Paul struggled to guard the perimeter for much of the year.
    Last edited by Pacerized; 08-08-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  7. #80
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    I consider rebuild as to move the majority of your core and start with young players, picks to surround Paul George with. Retool would be to move a core piece here or there while bringing in another proven player. Standing pat is just that, and riding out the season with current roster. Blockbuster is a major deal involving multiple parts for a big time star or other multiple parts

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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    don't forget the part mentally softer than a baby's ***.
    Any team out there that has considered Roy Hibbert is doing so with the mindset that a change of scenery will ease his mental issues so really it is a moot point.
    "No one else can see the preservation of the martyr in me" -- Corey Taylor

  9. #82
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I'm not saying he wasn't playing great defense. I'm just saying he wasn't a top 10 player last season. I can't consider someone who shoots that poorly for such a long period of time to be a top 10 player when he was never considered a top 10 player prior. To be a top ten player you really need to show that you can consistently play at that level, Paul has not shown that.
    I think it would be instructive to look at players scoring 20 or more and consider how good they are defensively. Paul was 12th in scoring. Guys in the top 10 include Love, Griffin and Curry. Harden, Mello and Nowitski are up there too, but none of those guys are lock down either. People think about guys like LeBron and don't realize how few real high-level 2 way players are really out there.

    Even if you consider his offense his worst aspect, he shot over 40% from 3 and scored 22.6ppg in the playoffs...higher than his regular season numbers all against tougher competition.

  10. #83

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Poor season? He started poorly, but ended great.
    Pre-AS 11.8/7.7 +/- 7.8

    Post-AS 8.9/4.7 +/- -1.6

  11. #84
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Pre-AS 11.8/7.7 +/- 7.8

    Post-AS 8.9/4.7 +/- -1.6
    The wrist injury was in 12-13 not 13-14.

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  13. #85

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I'm not a big fan of rebuilding for the simple fact that rebuilding takes a LONG time to do. (3-5 years is a long time in NBA years) If you trade for a bunch of draft picks, you have to wait for those guys to develop. Once they develop you have to wait for them to gain playoff experience. All of that takes time.

    As long as he remains on schedule, Paul George is going to be out ONE year. Just one. If he has to play with a bunch of young rookies without much experience, it's only going to make his job TOUGHER, not easier. After spending years of building towards a winning culture, I don't see why people are so willing to tear things down so quickly. If the Murphleavy years taught us anything, it can be HARD to get back to winning consistently. It takes a lot of things to fall into place, and I'm not sure I want to play around with PG's prime - especially after this devastating injury.

    With all of that said, trading one of our vets for a younger - developing type of player isn't a bad idea. But the deal would have to be for the right type of player. If we can't find a deal that lands us a player that would fit into the core for the future, then we simply wait for Roy and D.West to expire and we dabble into FA again. But to trade away our pieces (and eventual expiring contracts) for draft picks in what isn't considered a "superstar" type of draft right now, is kind of silly to me.

    Right now my interest has really waned, but I'm feel the best thing is to try and pick up some young players who could be part of the future core. A player/players who have been in the league 2-3 years who aren't being utilized like JO was. Are there any like that available? I'm not sure, but I'd be combing other teams rosters in search of them. I'm not expecting a JO quality player, but a player who can contribute in the future as a starter. Players at the PF, PG, and Center are positions that should be looked at to develop for the future.

    Draft picks are nice, but that's not the total answer. Let's face it, Solo is an unknown quality and what can the Pacers expect from getting a late lottery to early 20 pick next off season? I know PG/Granger in the past, but those were exceptions. You can't count on that again. I feel like trading is the best way to retool this team, but I can't see teams wanting to trade young players for bench players like Copeland, Mahimni, Scola, etc., so it's going to take trading a starter or 2 to get what is needed. If you want to season a young player for next year to contribute when PG returns, it might be best to trade now and not wait until the trade deadline in Feb. Then maybe closer to the trade deadline you can get better value for a future starter. What I do know is I wouldn't want to be in the Pacers FO having to figure out what is best going forward. Personally, I have no great expectations of any real upgrading of the roster for the future, just a wait and see attitude with patience from Bird. Whether that will work is anyones guess, but the best of luck to them. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

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  15. #86
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    It's not like Paul George is under contract for life. If we don't play our cards right and instead leave the cupboard bare for his return he might start eyeing greener pastures himself....
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    Do we really know how much the wrist injury contributed to his poor season?
    For what its worth, by Christmas of that season, he couldn't hold a pen in his hand.
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  19. #88
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Only because of a freak injury. If Paul was healthy we would be contenders.
    No we wouldn't. PG isn't going to win the Championship by himself. The only other person who can be relied on is West who is growing older.

    The second we lost Lance, we lost our "contender" status as well.

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  21. #89

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    No we wouldn't. PG isn't going to win the Championship by himself. The only other person who can be relied on is West who is growing older.

    The second we lost Lance, we lost our "contender" status as well.


    Was losing Lance a blow? Sure.... but losing PG was a bigger blow. The way I see it, the front office scenario was this...

    Phoenix accepts our trade offer and we come out of this with Lance back. So we look like......


    West
    PG
    ?????
    Lance
    Dragic




    I have no idea who they wanted to replace Roy at center. Maybe Blatche? Who has yet to be signed I think? But when PG went down, it changed everything. I like that they're trying to get Monroe though. Moving West or Hibbert for him would be optimal.

  22. #90

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    What are you going to do after 2015-2016? West will be old, and you are gambling on Hibbert to stay here even though a bunch of teams will have cap space. We still won't have any young guys besides our 2015 draft picks, and all we have under contract will be the Hills, Miles, George, the 2015 guys, and maybe guys we re-sign or cheap guys we sign in the 2015 offseason. That team will be absolutely barren, unless we move guys around.

    Indiana is not a place where you gamble on free agents.

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  24. #91
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    No we wouldn't. PG isn't going to win the Championship by himself. The only other person who can be relied on is West who is growing older.

    The second we lost Lance, we lost our "contender" status as well.
    Larry once stated that if we lost Lance we'd bring someone in and be fine and I agree with that. Lance simply wasn't that special to this team that losing him takes us out of contention. We're not contenders next year now but with Paul I think we're one of the top 3 and likely the top team in the East. Chicago has 2 injury prone players as their go to guys in Rose and Gasol. The Cavs still have to get a new team together and create a chemistry and indentity, just throwing a bunch of talented guys on a team does not immediately make them the top team. I expect growth from Hibbert and George this year and I still think West can be effective in 15/16 so as long as Paul returns to form we'll be fine. If he doesn't then we're not contenders any longer.

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  26. #92
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Was losing Lance a blow? Sure.... but losing PG was a bigger blow. The way I see it, the front office scenario was this...

    Phoenix accepts our trade offer and we come out of this with Lance back. So we look like......


    West
    PG
    ?????
    Lance
    Dragic




    I have no idea who they wanted to replace Roy at center. Maybe Blatche? Who has yet to be signed I think? But when PG went down, it changed everything. I like that they're trying to get Monroe though. Moving West or Hibbert for him would be optimal.
    Interesting except not one thing you're saying is true. I've read no reputable source say that Larry has tried to trade Hibbert to the Suns nor anything to do with the Pacers going after Monroe.

  27. #93
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    The only way that I consider moving West is if we get back a future Starting PG or PF.

    If it's Hibbert.....we have to get back a future starting PG, PF or Center.

    If it's true that Bird has dangled Hibbert and the right deal comes along to help fill a Position of need....then I can see him move Hibbert. But my guess is that he's simply gauging interest to determine his Trade Value.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  28. #94
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Larry once stated that if we lost Lance we'd bring someone in and be fine and I agree with that. Lance simply wasn't that special to this team that losing him takes us out of contention. We're not contenders next year now but with Paul I think we're one of the top 3 and likely the top team in the East. Chicago has 2 injury prone players as their go to guys in Rose and Gasol. The Cavs still have to get a new team together and create a chemistry and indentity, just throwing a bunch of talented guys on a team does not immediately make them the top team. I expect growth from Hibbert and George this year and I still think West can be effective in 15/16 so as long as Paul returns to form we'll be fine. If he doesn't then we're not contenders any longer.
    What was Bird going to say? "Now that Lance is gone there is no chance for us?" What GM/Pres would say that?

    The problem is, that everyone is looking at Lance last season and seeing that player. The reality is that Lance was just starting to scratch his potential. Losing Lance from last year hurts, losing the player that Lance is going to become is what kills us.

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  30. #95

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    What was Bird going to say? "Now that Lance is gone there is no chance for us?" What GM/Pres would say that?

    The problem is, that everyone is looking at Lance last season and seeing that player. The reality is that Lance was just starting to scratch his potential. Losing Lance from last year hurts, losing the player that Lance is going to become is what kills us.
    We never had the Lance that he is going to become, so how does losing something we never had kill us?

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  32. #96
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    We never had the Lance that he is going to become, so how does losing something we never had kill us?
    I don't think it "kills" us, but it certainly hurts. The reason it hurts is because our best offensive player outside of PG is a 34 year old David West. Yeah, I know that we had a great season in 12-13 with Lance being a role player. But David West also averaged 17 PPG that season. By the time Paul George returns to full strength, I don't see David West being a 17 PPG player. I don't want David West carrying a huge regular season offensive load if he's still on the team when PG returns because that will likely mean that he'll be tired by the time the playoffs roll around. David West won't be here when PG is in the prime of his career, whereas Lance is PG's age and could have played his entire Pacer career with him. He would have been a very good offensive sidekick. If we keep this core, we will have a sizable offensive hole to fill when PG returns. Hill is solid, West is old, and Hibbert is fundamentally limited on offense. I don't want to run a freshly returned PG into the ground because he doesn't have much offensive help.

    The Portland Trailblazers never "had" Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant, but they could have. What could have been with those guys has tormented that fan base for a long time. **I'm not comparing Lance Stephenson to Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant. I'm simply using a basic example to illustrate that the future always matters. The idea that we shouldn't care about what Lance could become in the future is kind of bizarre. If Larry Bird didn't care about the future of Lance, then he wouldn't have offered him a 5 year contract. The whole job of league executives is to worry about how the future development of players will impact their team.

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  34. #97

    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    For the record, I think Hill was a better pure scorer than Lance was last season. If West can't put up consistent numbers on offense when PG returns, I can easily see Hill being a 15 ppg guys if we need him to, he has already done it before. However this year will show us what we really have in our players.

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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    So many are concerned about West. He's getting old; he can't do this; he can't do that. Rather than focus on what you think West can't do it seems like many don't focus on what it is he can do.

    Respect him for what he is. An unselfish team player with "old man skills" that will enable him to be productive for at least the next few years. What will that do for us? It will help keep the team afloat and some fans in the seats until Paul George can return and get us back on track.

    You ask, well what can West do for us? The short answer is whatever the hell we need him to. He IS a team player. We will need additional scoring and he will help deliver it. We will need additional rebounding and he will help with that too. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't step out a few times and hit an acceptable percentage from behind the arc.

    Obviously, about the only thing you can't ask West to do is to step up and defend perimeter athletes.

    I think West will step up and deliver one of his best seasons in 2014-2015. If we really wanted to think about trading West, then doing so next summer or in the following season would return something worthwhile. Again, patience is the key.

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  37. #99
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Solomon Hill is it and honestly a more motivated Brandon Rush seems to be his high end for right now. I hope I'm wrong about that but only time will tell.
    A more motivated Brandon Rush? The horror.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  39. #100
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    Default Re: Should the Pacers rebuild after Paul George injury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    The problem is, that everyone is looking at Lance last season and seeing that player. The reality is that Lance was just starting to scratch his potential. Losing Lance from last year hurts, losing the player that Lance is going to become is what kills us.
    You cannot lose what you never had, my friend. Lance chose to leave and we should move on from it.

    It's similar to a couple breaking up. What is done is done and you should try to move on instead of residing on it and wasting away your life.
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