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IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

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  • #91
    Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    Exactly, it wasn't just Lance. Roy had issues with team mates, who knows with whom.

    But you know what, none of us should know that because Roy should have kept quite about it like every other single Pacer did.

    All he did was make a huge *** of himself and he did the worst possible thing a player can do. He talked in public and then he failed to back up his complaints with action.

    I don't care about Lance Stephenson, if you know where I sit I have a great view of the antics Lance pulled on the bench. Believe me he had to be babysit so I don't deny that.

    However that does not excuse Hibbert who caused more problems by going public than anything Lance did all season. He even made it so Frank had to publicly defend his offense. Now you may think that is a good thing because Frank should have to defend that offense but the truth is all it does is cause conflict in a group setting.

    When Roy was going through one of his games (hell I don't even know what to call them but you know the ones where he produced nothing for us but seemed good at fouling) did a single Pacer ever even question him or his mental toughness or just frankly call him the scrub that he was? No, not a one. They all held the line.

    A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and I'm sorry but Roy Hibbert is/was the weak link in that locker room.

    That doesn't mean he was alone or that he caused it but he was the one who went public with it and he is the one who let it effect his on court performance.
    that was a typo, I meant to it wasn't just Roy, according to Woj Lance has angered each and every Pacer in the locker room and it has escelated to fighting multiple times. Roy went public with it yes, and that was bad, but when multiple teammates are getting into fights with him, I think he is probably the main source of whatever happened inside the locker room, in my opinion.

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    • #92
      Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

      Ehmmm... I only remember the physical altercation with Evan, who wasnt the brightest either, and a verbal spat with Hill. That Lance got into multiple fights is something I had not heard or read before. Do you happen to have a link to the article stating that?
      Last edited by Mourning; 08-04-2014, 04:49 AM.
      2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

      2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

      2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

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      • #93
        Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

        Originally posted by Mourning View Post
        Ehmmm... I only remember the physical altercation with Evan, who wasnt the brightest either, and a verbal spat with Hill. That Lance got into multiple fights is something I had not heard or read before. Do you happen to have a link to the article stating that?
        So, having to be physically separated is a verbal spat?

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

          We are going to have one of the worst offenses in the last 5 years. We have zero guys who can create their own shot. The defense won't be any good either. Hibbert and Hill and no one else. People are going to be disappointed if they expect more than 30 wins. This team is no better than the Lakers from last year.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

            Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
            So, having to be physically separated is a verbal spat?
            Ok, fine, what ever, so having a physical confrontation with two team members is the same as almost having a fight with nearly every team Pacer? Or that he angered every team member? I mean if you want to get precise and then only just nitpick over one relatively minor error that I wrote, then oh boy, are you beying selective, not too mention that you are harsh on Lance, but Roy can basically do no wrong....
            2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

              Originally posted by PacerPenguins View Post
              I would still watch every single game... since this season is looking like a lost cause here is the things I will be looking for

              1) see how Hill works without Lance and PG
              2) Roy to get his offensive game going
              3) see how solomon hilll does as a possible starter
              4) See how Rudez plays as a backup 3
              5) Hopefully see Lavoy get some decent playing time
              What you said. I am not sure it is a lost cause but it will definitely be down. Win a title? No chance.
              At the trading deadline is where we will see what the TPTB think.
              {o,o}
              |)__)
              -"-"-

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              • #97
                Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                Originally posted by PacersHomer View Post
                We have zero guys who can create their own shot.
                That's not true at all. Hibbert's percentage of Assisted baskets has always been very low for a Center. Take a look at this:

                48.2% in the 11-12 RS, 44.2% in the 11-12 playoffs

                http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2012/

                52.5% in the 12-13 RS, 50% in the 12-13 playoffs

                http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

                58% in the 13-14 RS, 59.1% in the 13-14 playoffs

                http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2014/

                Those percentages clearly rose in 13-14 but Hibbert created a vast percentage of his shots both in 11-12 and 12-13.

                Hill is also very capable of creating his own shot as well. Same goes for David West.
                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                  Originally posted by Mourning View Post
                  Ehmmm... I only remember the physical altercation with Evan, who wasnt the brightest either, and a verbal spat with Hill. That Lance got into multiple fights is something I had not heard or read before. Do you happen to have a link to the article stating that?
                  He had an altercation with Granger and D. Jones, where D. Jones had to be held back not to beat up Lance. This wasn't last year obv. but still..

                  Hibbert during his six year career pouted during one game and lost his cool after another. The other 600+ games he's been a good sport. It's pretty amazing how 2 games can change an almost 6-year history of being a good teammate. I'm not sure I'm buying the Roy was the biggest problem in the locker room theory.... especially when D West said the exact same thing that Roy did albeit with a more careful choice of words... JMO... Btw, I wonder if the Knicks fans considered Tyson Chandler a locker room problem when he complained about his teammates lack of help after Hibbert humiliated him in '13 playoffs..
                  uno, due, trezegol!

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                    The doom and gloom of this board is borderline silly at times. Comparable teams like the Bulls and to a lesser extent the Hawks have lost their best player each of the past two years, and have made the playoffs each year. Franchises that have built a recent winning culture, they tend to overcome adversity such as this. Guys have to step up - it's not unheard of. It's not impossible.

                    If the team decided to trade a guy like West at the deadline, that'd be reasonable. If the team decided to try and build for the future, that would be reasonable. But to think we are going to be one of the bottom 5 teams in the league is a bit unreasonable to me. Constantly *****ing about a guy who ISN'T here anymore, and decided to not be here anymore, is unreasonable as well.

                    But to each their own I guess. I'll be rooting like hell for this team and look forward to them trying to overcome this unfortunate bout of adversity.
                    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 08-04-2014, 10:11 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                      So many good responses, thanks.

                      The point of this thread is to ask how people advocating tanking in any flavor will make it worthwhile for the team DURING the tanking period. It's not really even about why to tank/how to tank/what is or isn't tanking/etc. - I think I've been pretty clear how I feel on that subject.

                      My concern is really that, since losing does not guarantee a top pick in the NBA (the way it does in the NFL), there's no real marketing campaign to hang our hats on and get people to come out and cheerfully enjoy losing games in the assurance that the team is going to get better (no real "suck for Luck" situation).

                      And even at that, my concern isn't the casual fan as such, though they are the ones who have the greatest effect on attendance. My concern is for those advocating purposely putting a poorer team on the floor than it would be possible to do (that's what is being discussed here, whether by trading for young unproven assets, getting rid of players for garbage, or somehow convincing coaches to play bad players) - what do you think will make it a more worthwhile activity than just a vague hope that the Pacers win the lottery? What happens if we don't and we have young players who didn't work out plus a rookie a long way from developing when PG comes back? Do we end up advocating trading PG to a contender so he can get his ring since we failed him so miserably?

                      One point for those continually pointing out the need for a top draft pick to win - very few of those multiple top picks were drafted by the team that won the championship with them. And the top picks who were integral to a championship were a very small percentage compared to the top picks who were NOT. Therefore, to my mind, there has to be SOMETHING more than the basketball equivalent of deciding to stop paying rent and invest in Hoosier Lotto tickets involved in going for those top picks instead of trying to continue instilling a winning mentality into your locker room.

                      One more thing - the guys currently on the Pacers team now fully realize just how special it is to have a team firing on all cylinders the way it was the beginning of last season. They aren't likely to let that slip away again, should the chance present itself. Bringing in all young guys and starting over with development might be good for talent in the long run, but we completely lose that experience and the desire that goes with it. Do we think that PG's desire will be enough to carry a team a la Jordan? Or will it be more like pre-Miami Lebron?
                      BillS

                      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                      Comment


                      • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                        I'd watch all the games, but I'd defer to my fiance most nights and watch her team on the TV and watch a replay of the Pacers on my ipad later.

                        Comment


                        • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                          I will be at every game. No matter the win total, always something to look forward to at the games. From player development to battling to make that 8th spot in playoffs, I will still be right there and loving it.

                          Who knows, maybe Rudez steps in and gives way more than expected.

                          Comment


                          • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                            Originally posted by BillS View Post
                            So many good responses, thanks.

                            The point of this thread is to ask how people advocating tanking in any flavor will make it worthwhile for the team DURING the tanking period. It's not really even about why to tank/how to tank/what is or isn't tanking/etc. - I think I've been pretty clear how I feel on that subject.

                            My concern is really that, since losing does not guarantee a top pick in the NBA (the way it does in the NFL), there's no real marketing campaign to hang our hats on and get people to come out and cheerfully enjoy losing games in the assurance that the team is going to get better (no real "suck for Luck" situation).

                            And even at that, my concern isn't the casual fan as such, though they are the ones who have the greatest effect on attendance. My concern is for those advocating purposely putting a poorer team on the floor than it would be possible to do (that's what is being discussed here, whether by trading for young unproven assets, getting rid of players for garbage, or somehow convincing coaches to play bad players) - what do you think will make it a more worthwhile activity than just a vague hope that the Pacers win the lottery? What happens if we don't and we have young players who didn't work out plus a rookie a long way from developing when PG comes back? Do we end up advocating trading PG to a contender so he can get his ring since we failed him so miserably?

                            One point for those continually pointing out the need for a top draft pick to win - very few of those multiple top picks were drafted by the team that won the championship with them. And the top picks who were integral to a championship were a very small percentage compared to the top picks who were NOT. Therefore, to my mind, there has to be SOMETHING more than the basketball equivalent of deciding to stop paying rent and invest in Hoosier Lotto tickets involved in going for those top picks instead of trying to continue instilling a winning mentality into your locker room.

                            One more thing - the guys currently on the Pacers team now fully realize just how special it is to have a team firing on all cylinders the way it was the beginning of last season. They aren't likely to let that slip away again, should the chance present itself. Bringing in all young guys and starting over with development might be good for talent in the long run, but we completely lose that experience and the desire that goes with it. Do we think that PG's desire will be enough to carry a team a la Jordan? Or will it be more like pre-Miami Lebron?
                            There is no one answer. No fans are not going to flock to the fieldhouse to watch a D league roster get handed their butts every game by every team in the NBA.

                            But guess what, fans are not going to flock to the fieldhouse to watch a group of middling players who have zero chance to win a title and no superstar to see for a show either.

                            We've had this debate before. The casual fans will show up to watch one of the best teams in the NBA (last season team certainly fit that bill) or they might show up a few games to watch a superstar type player who was exciting (Paul also fit that bill).

                            Remember during the O'brien years we really weren't one of the worst teams in the NBA record wise, we were but they would always manage to get into 9th or 10th, and the fans stayed away buy the thousands.

                            I've already made it clear, before Paul ever got injured and even before Lance left, I thought we needed to retool the team. Well thanks to Lance's decision and Paul's injury the team has essentially been gutted. The trio of an old West/Hibbert & Hill strikes fear into the heart of no one and I'm sorry but I think 30 wins might be a challenge for this team, we will see, but if you asked me right now that is where I think I would put us.

                            So to me I think it would make much more sense to try and get help in here for Paul for 2016 when he can come back healthy and ready to go.

                            I'm sorry but the window for this team as constructed IMO closed with that loss to Miami. Lance Stephenson leaving to me further sealed the window shut. Paul George's injury barred and shuttered the window like a Miami shop keeper sealing up for a Hurricane.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                            Comment


                            • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                              To answer Bill's original question:

                              I will support the team the same way I did during the JOB years. As long as we don't pull a Philadelphia 76ER type of tank job, I'm committed to this franchise for better or worse. I'd continue to renew with my half season ticket package.

                              I honestly feel that we have as much of a justifiable reason to trade some of our veteran players as we do to hold on to them.

                              Just to add - for those comparing this to the Colts situation - I think the only difference here is that we do not have an Andrew Luck type of prospect coming out of next year's draft. That's almost the equivalent to a Lebron James type of player being in the draft.

                              Comment


                              • Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

                                In my opinion there are 2 ways to tank.

                                1. The players just give up and put forth a half a$$ effort.
                                2. Management brings in young players to get them some playing time and build for the future.

                                Personally, I don't think the Pacers will tank, but any team that only gives a half a$$ effort will not get my support...at least financial support.

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