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Thread: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

  1. #126
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    The only way I get angry is if the team is an 8th seed and they decide to throw PG out there. Even if the doctors clear him.
    If he's physically cleared wouldn't you rather he worked out some of the tentativeness at the end of this season rather than the beginning of the next?
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  3. #127
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    If he's physically cleared wouldn't you rather he worked out some of the tentativeness at the end of this season rather than the beginning of the next?
    Nope. Give him rest and PT and let the offseason be where he works all that out.

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  5. #128

    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by LA_Confidential View Post
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    I haven't read the thread but.......

    I believe there is Zero percent chance that the Pacers will tank. There is no chance in hades that the players will mail it in. And secondly, if the front office intentionally blows it up without giving the squad a chance, they will have the wrath of the fan base to deal with.

    I fully expect this team to bust their asses to be a playoff team. Even as an 8 seed, they will have enough drive and pride to play for Paul. If this group goes out and vomits all over themselves, it won't be a tank. They will just have sucked all along and we would have never had a chance to win even with Paul.
    How much of a fan base are you expecting to see? The team was going to struggle (relatively speaking) next season from losing their 2nd best player and replacing him with guys who have been backups on awful teams for most of their careers while ignoring the glaring need (a true point guard/playmaker). They still would've been a top 4 seed in the East, but without PG the team is going to be hard to watch. We've had one of the ugliest offenses in the NBA since Vogel got here, but it's going to hit rock bottom. And Lance was a fan favorite, so you can factor that in as well. The fanbase isn't stupid, they know CJ Miles and Rodney Stuckey aren't going to do much. They know Roy Hibbert kind of stinks these days (hence the boo's). They know George Hill is probably a finished product.

    I mean, people here are suddenly expecting big things from Solomon Hill*. Seriously. It's already come to this.


    *I hope he turns into a superstar too. I hope every one of our players turns into Lebron James, but I don't expect it from guys who got no playing time.

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  7. #129

    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    The assets you'd want to move in a blow-it-up scenario are Hibbert, Hill, Scola, and West. The first 3 of those killed their trade value in the second half of last year, and father time limits the trade value of West. So the blow-it-up philosophy gets you so little in return that when (if?) Paul returns, we'd be worse off than we would be otherwise unless we were freakishly good with non-lottery or low-lottery draft picks.

    If the front office wants to blow it up, IMO it would only be after some of these guys redeem their trade value with decent individual play to start next season. Maybe some team will overpay for a Hill who suddenly scores 15 per, or need a vet like Scola or West.

    It just gets you too little to do it right now.
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  8. #130
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    How much of a fan base are you expecting to see? The team was going to struggle (relatively speaking) next season from losing their 2nd best player and replacing him with guys who have been backups on awful teams for most of their careers while ignoring the glaring need (a true point guard/playmaker). They still would've been a top 4 seed in the East, but without PG the team is going to be hard to watch. We've had one of the ugliest offenses in the NBA since Vogel got here, but it's going to hit rock bottom. And Lance was a fan favorite, so you can factor that in as well. The fanbase isn't stupid, they know CJ Miles and Rodney Stuckey aren't going to do much. They know Roy Hibbert kind of stinks these days (hence the boo's). They know George Hill is probably a finished product.

    I mean, people here are suddenly expecting big things from Solomon Hill*. Seriously. It's already come to this.


    *I hope he turns into a superstar too. I hope every one of our players turns into Lebron James, but I don't expect it from guys who got no playing time.
    Then why bother at all? You're saying there would have been no one watching the games anyway - well, we're not getting another superstar for one tanked season. PG by himself with a lot of rookie contract guys gathered together from teams all over the country after getting rid of West, Hill, and Hibbert isn't going to win a championship any time soon. By your definition, then, the team will be lucky to have anyone watching it by the time Paul's contract is up.

    If a team playing hard and with a good chance to win a game isn't good enough, they need to start following Lebron around the league - and even THAT isn't a lock.
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  10. #131
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I am not for tanking. However I am not against the idea of trading older win now players for players that compliment PG long term.

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  12. #132
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Then why bother at all? You're saying there would have been no one watching the games anyway - well, we're not getting another superstar for one tanked season. PG by himself with a lot of rookie contract guys gathered together from teams all over the country after getting rid of West, Hill, and Hibbert isn't going to win a championship any time soon. By your definition, then, the team will be lucky to have anyone watching it by the time Paul's contract is up.

    If a team playing hard and with a good chance to win a game isn't good enough, they need to start following Lebron around the league - and even THAT isn't a lock.
    With some people it is championship or nothing. Obviously we have had to deal with some blows, most of which were not our fault. Paul George has a freak injury and Lance Stephenson decided to take an offer inferior to the one we offered him and left town. Because of this apparently some people think we should just forfeit all of our games and pray that we land the reincarnation of Michael Jordan.

    This season is about small victories. Seeing Solomon Hill turn into a solid rotation guy would be a small victory. Seeing Roy Hibbert and George Hill become more comfortable and confident on offense is a small victory. Getting a system in place and letting guys like Rudez and Miles space the court is a small victory. I will be watching for stuff like that. If we can accomplish these things and have a team built for when Paul gets healthy we will be in good shape.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    With some people it is championship or nothing. Obviously we have had to deal with some blows, most of which were not our fault. Paul George has a freak injury and Lance Stephenson decided to take an offer inferior to the one we offered him and left town. Because of this apparently some people think we should just forfeit all of our games and pray that we land the reincarnation of Michael Jordan.

    This season is about small victories. Seeing Solomon Hill turn into a solid rotation guy would be a small victory. Seeing Roy Hibbert and George Hill become more comfortable and confident on offense is a small victory. Getting a system in place and letting guys like Rudez and Miles space the court is a small victory. I will be watching for stuff like that. If we can accomplish these things and have a team built for when Paul gets healthy we will be in good shape.

    What is ironic about the situation is that is if Lance had stayed he could have been a primary focus of the offense.
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    What is ironic about the situation is that is if Lance had stayed he could have been a primary focus of the offense.
    And we are lucky he decided to leave.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I don't know why people think it was an inferior offer. 5 years from now Lance's career earnings will be 60M instead of 45M. He will make more money the route he went. It's on our front office for not offering the shorter term flexibility he wanted.

    I think we're going to win ~30 games, other people think we'll win ~40. Someone open up a thread, set the over under at 35. I'm curious to see what the percentage of public opinion on this is.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't know why people think it was an inferior offer. 5 years from now Lance's career earnings will be 60M instead of 45M. He will make more money the route he went. It's on our front office for not offering the shorter term flexibility he wanted.

    I think we're going to win ~30 games, other people think we'll win ~40. Someone open up a thread, set the over under at 35. I'm curious to see what the percentage of public opinion on this is.
    He certainly seems to think he will make closer to 60M. Thats for sure. Nobody else in the league thought he was worth that this summer, and I wouldn't be surprised if nobody does again the next time he's a FA.
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    Yeah, that's the problem. I don't think anyone on this board is as big of a jerk in person as they come across on here. Except maybe Nuntius. Dude is impossibly nice.
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    He is a saint, cdash. If a mosquito landed on his arm trying to bite him he would tell it " Go on son, do your thing".

  20. #137

    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    He certainly seems to think he will make closer to 60M. Thats for sure. Nobody else in the league thought he was worth that this summer, and I wouldn't be surprised if nobody does again the next time he's a FA.
    Even if he gets paid the same proportion to the cap as he will next year, he will still make a lot more than $44m due to the salary cap increase that will come with the new CBA and TV deal.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I would gladly trade David West for Lance Stephenson.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    He certainly seems to think he will make closer to 60M. Thats for sure. Nobody else in the league thought he was worth that this summer, and I wouldn't be surprised if nobody does again the next time he's a FA.
    The salary cap will be increasing. This is a simple statement of fact. He had a 2 year 20M dollar offer lined up already. If he does 3 years with Charlotte then two for 20 anywhere, that's already 47M...3M more than our offer. The exact same offer, by proportion of cap, will probably be something more like two years 24M. He doesn't need to increase his value at all, even if he stays the exact same player with the market unchanging, he is going to make 47-51M. Substantially more than 44M, especially because of the present value of the money. Money now is worth more than money later. You get to start investing it sooner. He's beating our contract without improving a single bit. The only way he loses is if he completely implodes or gets hurt. I expect him to continue improving and actually do better next go round, but either way, he won financially here.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Luckily for us, I don't think guys get traded till the trade deadline. With no PG, I do think Hill and Hibbert will increase their value since they'll be much more involved on offense.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't know why people think it was an inferior offer. 5 years from now Lance's career earnings will be 60M instead of 45M. He will make more money the route he went. It's on our front office for not offering the shorter term flexibility he wanted.

    I think we're going to win ~30 games, other people think we'll win ~40. Someone open up a thread, set the over under at 35. I'm curious to see what the percentage of public opinion on this is.
    From everything I have heard Lance's camp didn't give the Pacers a chance to match the Hornet's offer. I believe Larry would have matched it FWIW, but it is all spilled milk now.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    "Our offer is a 5 year contract." -- "I don't want to sign for 5 years, I want a shorter deal." -- "How about this other 5 year contract?" -- "You aren't listening, I want a shorter contract." -- "This 5 year contract is your final option." -- Lance proceeds to get a 2 year thing set with one team, and a 2+1 option year set with another team. If I were Lance, I wouldn't have come back either. I don't work for employers who don't negotiate. Anyway, that's all speculative. What isn't speculative is that he didn't sign an inferior contract, as so many seem to believe.

  29. #143

    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    "Our offer is a 5 year contract." -- "I don't want to sign for 5 years, I want a shorter deal." -- "How about this other 5 year contract?" -- "You aren't listening, I want a shorter contract." -- "This 5 year contract is your final option." -- Lance proceeds to get a 2 year thing set with one team, and a 2+1 option year set with another team. If I were Lance, I wouldn't have come back either. I don't work for employers who don't negotiate. Anyway, that's all speculative. What isn't speculative is that he didn't sign an inferior contract, as so many seem to believe.
    He took 17 million guaranteed over 45 million guaranteed, that is a huge risk no matter what way you slice it.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    People take risk every day. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. He weighed his odds of getting a career ending injury (very low), odds of becoming a less valuable player (lowish), against the odds of being at least as valuable as today (high), or perhaps even much more valuable (lowish). He didn't sign an inferior contract. He's making more money today than he would with the Pacers, and he's taking a calculated risk that will very likely turn out in his favor. I understand why Pacer fans are so salty about it, but they should quit fabricating the story that he spurned a better offer. He didn't. He's making more money today, and has a contract in line with his goals. He won this, not us. We lost an asset without any return.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    People take risk every day. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. He weighed his odds of getting a career ending injury (very low), odds of becoming a less valuable player (lowish), against the odds of being at least as valuable as today (high), or perhaps even much more valuable (lowish). He didn't sign an inferior contract. He's making more money today than he would with the Pacers, and he's taking a calculated risk that will very likely turn out in his favor. I understand why Pacer fans are so salty about it, but they should quit fabricating the story that he spurned a better offer. He didn't. He's making more money today, and has a contract in line with his goals. He won this, not us. We lost an asset without any return.
    Idk that he won necessarily. We don't know what's going to happen over the next 2-3 years, with the pacers or with Lance. He chose to take a chance on his ability by taking less guaranteed money. It's a calculated risk that most professional athletes dare not take. Its not necessarily dumb, as if he somehow improved by leaps and bounds it could payoff in a big way. It could also blow up in his face. Should be interesting to see how it plays out for the guy.

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  33. #146
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    How much of a fan base are you expecting to see? The team was going to struggle (relatively speaking) next season from losing their 2nd best player and replacing him with guys who have been backups on awful teams for most of their careers while ignoring the glaring need (a true point guard/playmaker). They still would've been a top 4 seed in the East, but without PG the team is going to be hard to watch. We've had one of the ugliest offenses in the NBA since Vogel got here, but it's going to hit rock bottom. And Lance was a fan favorite, so you can factor that in as well. The fanbase isn't stupid, they know CJ Miles and Rodney Stuckey aren't going to do much. They know Roy Hibbert kind of stinks these days (hence the boo's). They know George Hill is probably a finished product.

    I mean, people here are suddenly expecting big things from Solomon Hill*. Seriously. It's already come to this.


    *I hope he turns into a superstar too. I hope every one of our players turns into Lebron James, but I don't expect it from guys who got no playing time.
    I expect there to be tons of support for this organization, ESPECIALLY with the injury occurring.
    Honestly, I don't get why Lance continues to get overvalued by Pacer fans when we have seen him every day over the last 4 years. It's ridiculous to just write off Solomon Hill and anoint Lance when the best we got from him is 13 points and extremely immature and selfish play in a contract year.

    Like I said, there is no reason to trade everything we have in order to get a higher pick because me might not get it anyway. Unless the players completely crap the bed, show no effort and quit on themselves, there is absolutely no reason to blow it up.

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  35. #147
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Idk that he won necessarily. We don't know what's going to happen over the next 2-3 years, with the pacers or with Lance. He chose to take a chance on his ability by taking less guaranteed money. It's a calculated risk that most professional athletes dare not take. Its not necessarily dumb, as if he somehow improved by leaps and bounds it could payoff in a big way. It could also blow up in his face. Should be interesting to see how it plays out for the guy.
    Lance: Starting NBA player on a contract the length he desired for more money per year than the Pacers offered.

    Pacers: Starting Rodney Stuckey.

    ...yea, Lance won. Next question.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Lance: Starting NBA player on a contract the length he desired for more money per year than the Pacers offered.

    Pacers: Starting Rodney Stuckey.

    ...yea, Lance won. Next question.
    Pacers won in my book simply by letting him get away. Nobody can convince me that his selfishness wasn't the main cause of the chemistry problems last year.

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  38. #149
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Lance: Starting NBA player on a contract the length he desired for more money per year than the Pacers offered.

    Pacers: Starting Rodney Stuckey.

    ...yea, Lance won. Next question.
    Why don't you just become a Hornet fan, along with all the rest of the PDers who can't get over the fact that their beloved Lance Stephenson, the Sencend Coming, is no longer a Pacer.

    We lose the best player we've had img god knows how long to a catastrophic injury and all I see is Lance this, Lance that.
    **** Lance, he made his choice.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Pacers won in my book simply by letting him get away. Nobody can convince me that his selfishness wasn't the main cause of the chemistry problems last year.
    Probably something to do with Roy "I can't catch a pass and I certainly can't finish for ****, but I need the damn ball more" Hibbert. Selfishness incarnate, really, crying to the media about your touches.

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