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Thread: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I was trying to figure out just how to engage the small but vocal group of tanking advocates in a positive way, and I think this question might work.

    Anyone can feel free to answer.

    The question is this - suppose the Pacers throw in the towel on the season and get rid of skilled players while bringing in young cheap guys to maybe develop but mostly to lose games to try for a high draft pick.

    How do YOU tangibly let the organization know you think this is the right move? How do YOU encourage others to do the same? What do YOU do to help keep this from being a financial and marketing disaster?

    I'm asking because the reaction of casual fans to throwing a season away on what seems to me to be a glorified Powerball ticket concerns me greatly. As most here know, that's my number 1 argument against doing it (among others).

    In my case, I'm an STH and will be there through thick and thin. I may not always agree with the coaching or the moves, but I'll be there.

    Other thoughts?

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I will support the Pacers no matter what, but I would definitely not tank. Roy Hibbert, David West, and George Hill is a good supporting cast, and if Hibbert can find his offensive groove this year, and have it when PG gets back, then we are in great shape, and Hibbert has proven when is healthy and in form, he is an all-star caliber player. Not to mention that we will have a decent draft pick so we can add another good long term and hopefully short term piece there, and we have the MLE to use next season to add another good complementary piece for PG. So I am not in favor of the tanking strategy.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 08-03-2014 at 07:09 PM.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Well, as an out of state lifelong fan, I would continue to support them as I always have. I watch every game and follow the team closely.

    It really would not impact any financial decisions for me, because League Pass is basically my only expense.

    If we were playing a 'lost year' I would undoubtedly still find ways to get invested in the team, the development of young talent and the hope for improvement and as much in-season success as possible.
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'm asking because the reaction of casual fans to throwing a season away on what seems to me to be a glorified Powerball ticket concerns me greatly. As most here know, that's my number 1 argument against doing it (among others).
    I agree with you. It's one thing to ask fans pay money to watch a team lose because it has young talent which is developing.

    It's another to ask fans to pay money for the basketball equivalent of watching paint dry - tanking a season - in the hope that you might get young talent next year to develop. I think you'll lose the city again - not totally to the JOB days but it'll be a significant step back.
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I was trying to figure out just how to engage the small but vocal group of tanking advocates in a positive way, and I think this question might work.

    Anyone can feel free to answer.

    The question is this - suppose the Pacers throw in the towel on the season and get rid of skilled players while bringing in young cheap guys to maybe develop but mostly to lose games to try for a high draft pick.

    How do YOU tangibly let the organization know you think this is the right move? How do YOU encourage others to do the same? What do YOU do to help keep this from being a financial and marketing disaster?

    I'm asking because the reaction of casual fans to throwing a season away on what seems to me to be a glorified Powerball ticket concerns me greatly. As most here know, that's my number 1 argument against doing it (among others).

    In my case, I'm an STH and will be there through thick and thin. I may not always agree with the coaching or the moves, but I'll be there.

    Other thoughts?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
    I tend to go to games more when the team stinks. I like the cheap tickets and being able to move down in the balcony. For the record, I don't think that its tanking when you have a player of the caliber of Paul George coming back next year. The Sixers hope to draft a Paul George by tanking. We get him back plus the player that we draft. This is more like when the Spurs got the top pick because David Robinson got hurt. Getting a top player on a rookie contract to pair with Paul could be the giant silver lining in this disaster of a situation.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    To add on to my previous statement for the sake of clarity: I would rather support a team that had marginal talent and was consistently barely making or missing the playoffs, but that had heart and passion than a team that just gave up and didn't try.

    Call that whatever you like. I like to think of it as standing upon principles and an honorable way of doing things.
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I think with the shadow of Paul's injury and subsequent rehab looming over this entire season any other move will probably be viewed through that lens. That being the case, I think as long as the team that is put on the floor plays hard people will support them.

    Basically they can trade whoever for whatever and as long as we don't get completely screwed in the trade, my first question will be "That's great and all, but how is PG doing?"

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I'd support the Pacers no matter what. They're my favorite team and I watched every game post-brawl during the dark years so I'd continue to watch this team even if they weren't playing well enough to make the playoffs. Every team has up and down seasons. It's just a part of professional sports.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    To add on to my previous statement for the sake of clarity: I would rather support a team that had marginal talent and was consistently barely making or missing the playoffs, but that had heart and passion than a team that just gave up and didn't try.

    Call that whatever you like. I like to think of it as standing upon principles and an honorable way of doing things.
    Here's my problem with this, are the players tanking or are they just bad? Take Philly for example last year, a lot of those guys were playing very hard, trying to stick in the league, they were working hard, but the team was tanking, so I think it is possible to tank and play hard at the same time.

    I also don't think you have to tank to win.

    I also don't think the Pacers need to tank, but would understand why if they did. Especially if you could pick up multiple assets.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    How would the Pacers tank this season with out it being obvious of their intentions? Have Hill, Hibbert, and West come off the bench? I think outside these three, everyone else on the team will be fighting for a bigger pay day mentality as opposed to fighting to make the playoffs.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Tanking meaning play young guys a lot to develop them - I'm good

    Tanking meaning guys are out there chucking and dogging it - I'm not

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchConnection View Post
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    I tend to go to games more when the team stinks. I like the cheap tickets and being able to move down in the balcony. For the record, I don't think that its tanking when you have a player of the caliber of Paul George coming back next year. The Sixers hope to draft a Paul George by tanking. We get him back plus the player that we draft. This is more like when the Spurs got the top pick because David Robinson got hurt. Getting a top player on a rookie contract to pair with Paul could be the giant silver lining in this disaster of a situation.
    We won't get a top draft pick, even without PG our talent is still better than the bottom dwellers like the Magic/Sixers/Milwaukee etc. The best scenario for me would be, we make the playoffs as the 8th or 7th or whatever and prove that our supporting cast alone is still enough to get a playoff spot. Having the 8th seed in the playoffs is still good to get a good draft pick, as Atlanta walked away with the 15th pick, so you get the opportunity to draft a nice prospect there, and have the MLE to bolster that already playoff caliber roster, as well as getting the return of Paul George.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Here's my problem with this, are the players tanking or are they just bad? Take Philly for example last year, a lot of those guys were playing very hard, trying to stick in the league, they were working hard, but the team was tanking, so I think it is possible to tank and play hard at the same time.

    I also don't think you have to tank to win.

    I also don't think the Pacers need to tank, but would understand why if they did. Especially if you could pick up multiple assets.
    Yeah, I mean if the players on the court are giving it 100 percent every night I'll support them. Now if the organization itself is attempting to tank by putting together a garbage team purposely, I would be disturbed by that. But there the key word is "purposely"
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Pacers should take that $5 million and use it to bring Brian Scalabrine out of retirement.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Don't be the Philadelphia 76ers basically, that's my definition of obvious tanking, and really I'm pretty glad it hasn't worked out that well so far for them, MCW was a late lottery pick that won ROY. Noel who knows what he will be and obviously Embiid is out for the season probably.

    If the other Pacer talents come to play I think they're still a fringe playoff team, and I can be happy with that for this year. I wouldn't be very happy if Larry decided to trade David West unless David specifically wanted to be on a title contender for this season. Obviously don't do anything really dumb like trade draft picks or young talent for a marginal upgrade this season. Scola is a guy that I look to possibly trade now, or play him during the season, and wait till near the trade deadline and try and get what you can. I hope Frank plays a lot of Solo and Rudez if they show good signs on the floor and not pull a JoB there.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by ECKrueger View Post
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    Tanking meaning play young guys a lot to develop them - I'm good

    Tanking meaning guys are out there chucking and dogging it - I'm not
    I think tanking has more to do with the front office than the players. Everybody is playing to get paid. If guys are out there "chucking and dogging it", that's going to affect their ability to secure a future contract. No player is going to do that. The only way the Pacers tank is if they break up the core of G-Hill, West, and Hibbert. I would say trading any two of those three would put us in that category.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Larry handles this. Do you make a trade? Do you use the lost player exemption? If they stand pat and especially if they utilize the exemption to bring in another player, that would tell me they absolutely are not tanking. Just how good they will be is a whole other question.
    Last edited by Believe_in_blue; 08-03-2014 at 07:26 PM.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    We won't tank...even when we were really bad and should have tanked we always fought for that last playoff spot. But it would be nice to have a player like Mudiay
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Well at least you are wasting no time about starting to panic about the attendance for next year.

    You know my answer, I'm right across from you for every game so there is that.

    But I want to address the attendance now before it gets here.

    Accept it now, attendance will drop. I don't know how much it will drop but it will drop, I think we sold out almost every game after the midway point of the season.

    Here is where you and I are going to disagree. The casual's & I'm talking about the real casuals here not the fans who stayed away, will come and support a winner. Well they also might come out if you have a superstar but now sans Paul we have no animal.

    So to me if there ever was a season where the management just told us, hey we were dealt a mighty blow and we knew that the age of some of our older players (west) was starting to be an issue so we need to take a step back for a year and get a little younger and develop some talent, this would be the year to do it.

    We have already seen the low. The O'Brien years was as low as you are going to get in this town, what you had on those nights were the die hards and that is about it.

    Look I am opposed to tanking in the traditional sense, I think it breeds a losing culture if you tank. However there is a difference between getting younger and more athletic and just not winning all that much.

    Granted its semantics but to me there is a difference. I would never ever advocate giving away players for nothing, I want young players in return unless we can get a high draft pick then you go with that. However none of our players are going to bring in a high draft pick.

    I think the fans are smart enough to know that this season is a lost cause and will buy tickets accordingly. I can't blame someone for not dropping big bucks to come to the fieldhouse this year. I already have so you know I'll be there.

    There really is no right or wrong answer here.


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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Well at least you are wasting no time about starting to panic about the attendance for next year.

    You know my answer, I'm right across from you for every game so there is that.

    But I want to address the attendance now before it gets here.

    Accept it now, attendance will drop. I don't know how much it will drop but it will drop, I think we sold out almost every game after the midway point of the season.

    Here is where you and I are going to disagree. The casual's & I'm talking about the real casuals here not the fans who stayed away, will come and support a winner. Well they also might come out if you have a superstar but now sans Paul we have no animal.

    So to me if there ever was a season where the management just told us, hey we were dealt a mighty blow and we knew that the age of some of our older players (west) was starting to be an issue so we need to take a step back for a year and get a little younger and develop some talent, this would be the year to do it.

    We have already seen the low. The O'Brien years was as low as you are going to get in this town, what you had on those nights were the die hards and that is about it.

    Look I am opposed to tanking in the traditional sense, I think it breeds a losing culture if you tank. However there is a difference between getting younger and more athletic and just not winning all that much.

    Granted its semantics but to me there is a difference. I would never ever advocate giving away players for nothing, I want young players in return unless we can get a high draft pick then you go with that. However none of our players are going to bring in a high draft pick.

    I think the fans are smart enough to know that this season is a lost cause and will buy tickets accordingly. I can't blame someone for not dropping big bucks to come to the fieldhouse this year. I already have so you know I'll be there.

    There really is no right or wrong answer here.
    Yeah it's tough for me this year even thinking about the 1 game they go to Phoenix if I want to go or not. I surely won't be getting it early and depends a lot on how the season is going. Depends on day of week and all that, much harder motivation this year sadly.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I ride til I die.

    I already found a PG wristband that was being given the season before last during the push before his first all-star bid. I plan on wearing it until PG returns. And yes, I fully expect a skinny tan line on my wrist.

    Last edited by Sandman21; 08-03-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I would support them by calling in to Eddie White's post game shows
    and agreeing with everything he says.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Cheap secondary market tickets. I'll be there. It's Pacers basketball. I'll always be there.

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmHoosier View Post
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    Pacers should take that $5 million and use it to bring Brian Scalabrine out of retirement.
    We need players who have soul, but he's a ginger!

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    I would still watch every single game... since this season is looking like a lost cause here is the things I will be looking for

    1) see how Hill works without Lance and PG
    2) Roy to get his offensive game going
    3) see how solomon hilll does as a possible starter
    4) See how Rudez plays as a backup 3
    5) Hopefully see Lavoy get some decent playing time

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    Default Re: IF They Tanked - How Would You Support Them?

    Anyone who is a Colts fan shouldn't have any problem with tanking. In 2011, the Colts tried at first to win games by bringing in the pitiful corpse of Kerry Collins in a desperate hope that he still had something left. But then we found out pretty quickly that he was washed up and we were forced to go to Painter. We stayed with Painter about three or so games too long and would have switched to Orvlosky much sooner if we were honesty trying to win games. It was only when we were all but assured the number 1 pick that we went to Dan O. He showed us why we waited so long, I.e. he actually made us a tiny bit competitive - played well in NE in his first start and actually won a couple games.

    Also, the Colts never really added any FA's that year, nor did they utilize waivers despite being at the top all season. It was a complete organizational tank job that was executed with perfection and rewarded us with one of the best rookies in history. I supported it 100% because it secured our future for the next 13 years.

    I don't expect the Pacers to tank and get an Andrew Luck equivalent. That being said, we need to focus on developing guys like Solo, and I really don't want to run guys like West, Hibbert, and Hill into the ground just so we can make the 8 seed and get destroyed by Cleveland. This year is completely lost. All that matters is trying to maximize PG's tenure when he gets back. I wouldn't trade West for pennies, but you absolutely have to explore trading him for any young prospect out there. West is in the "win now" stage of his career, but we are not a "win now" team at the moment.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 08-03-2014 at 08:58 PM.

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