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Thread: Franchise Changer

  1. #1
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    Default Franchise Changer

    PGs injury is not only a season changer, it changes the franchise for years to come. This play will alter the franchise in ways we don't know. Kills coaching careers, changes the direction of the front office and affects every decision made. Not certain Frank can make something out of this. I won't be surprised if the Pacers are starting another clean slate, not dissimilar to the roster changes made after the Malice, but not wishing for it. Speedy recovery to Paul.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    If he can come back in a year it wont end the franchise, Remember Robinson had a year out because of injury and the spurs ended up with Duncan, the wold did not end but our season most certainly did, the question is do the Pacers go for the tank or try and eak into the playoffs hoping PG will be ok by then.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Quote Originally Posted by special ed View Post
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    PGs injury is not only a season changer, it changes the franchise for years to come. This play will alter the franchise in ways we don't know. Kills coaching careers, changes the direction of the front office and affects every decision made. Not certain Frank can make something out of this. I won't be surprised if the Pacers are starting another clean slate, not dissimilar to the roster changes made after the Malice, but not wishing for it. Speedy recovery to Paul.
    If the Pacers relied this much on one guy and his name isn't Lebron James or Kevin Durant we were not championship contenders to begin with.

    The PG injury causes us all to feel extreme sorrow towards Paul and it is a metaphorical sucker punch to the groin to us all.

    With that said, the worst thing the franchise can do is overreact. Yes, there could potentially be some moves that make sense now, in the light of the George injury (such as moving West, Scola) but blowing things up and becoming the Milwaukee Bucks is not the answer I am afraid.

    Lets play hard every night, find roles for the new guys and develop Solo Hill to make sure that when Paul is back we have a good nucleus for him to assimilate into.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Quote Originally Posted by special ed View Post
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    PGs injury is not only a season changer, it changes the franchise for years to come. This play will alter the franchise in ways we don't know. Kills coaching careers, changes the direction of the front office and affects every decision made. Not certain Frank can make something out of this. I won't be surprised if the Pacers are starting another clean slate, not dissimilar to the roster changes made after the Malice, but not wishing for it. Speedy recovery to Paul.
    the injury looked HORRIBLE, yes, but the good news is he broke the bones and he didnt tear his achilles or acl. Like every doctor says bones will grow back stronger than they were before. Paul George will be back next year, he has a 6-8 month recovery ahead of him and has about 4-5 months after that to get back in shape. If you have seen highlights of Rose recently he looks great. Paul georges injury may have looked worse but Roses injuries were much worse compared to the wear and tear it does on your body.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Quote Originally Posted by special ed View Post
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    Kills coaching careers, changes the direction of the front office and affects every decision made. Not certain Frank can make something out of this.
    I think it's just the opposite. If, IF, IF there was any thought to replacing Vogel, this buys him pretty much a free year.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Well, now that we know more about the injury, it sounds a lot better as for the long term future, obviously he won't be back next season, but he should be able to make a full recovery.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    The emotions are high. The logic gets low. Go ahead and read the threads when we heard that Danny was out two years ago. Then what happened. PG became a man. This is not the end.

    Losing Danny wasn't the end.
    The brawl wasn't the end.
    Jermaine O'Neal breaking down wasn't the end.
    Reggie retiring wasn't the end.

    Jim freaking O'Brien wasn't the end.

    This too shall pass.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    This definitely put us back about 3 years...not only did we lose a great talent we've given him a max contract
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    The emotions are high. The logic gets low. Go ahead and read the threads when we heard that Danny was out two years ago. Then what happened. PG became a man. This is not the end.

    Losing Danny wasn't the end.
    The brawl wasn't the end.
    Jermaine O'Neal breaking down wasn't the end.
    Reggie retiring wasn't the end.

    Jim freaking O'Brien wasn't the end.

    This too shall pass.
    But losing Lance was the end...

    Seriously, I'd be more optimistic if I had any shred of thought that the Pacers would get the number 1 pick if they missed the playoffs. I am absolutely certain, though, that we could go 0-82 and still at best get pick 4 (it might be the first time in history that 3 teams actually leapfrogged into the top 3 picks, but it would most certainly happen).

    What I want to see is for this entire season to be one where everyone on the court is fighting for everything they can. It's one of the only things that will energize the fanbase around a non-winning team.
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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    It very well might, but it may also not. It's like the NBA gods giveth and they taketh away.

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Stolen from Reddit, but I think it's a good read.

    **I’m not an orthopedist but I am an EM/MD (still in training)
    *** Just talked to my Harvard orthopedist friend---she's is quite optimistic, however, there's just no way to tell based on the grainy video. With that said, I'll start including bits and pieces of conversations I am having, although keep in mind it is speculation, and will always be unless you have the actual patient in front of us. **
    This can be classified as a Grade I Gustilo fracture (since its isolated and clean): Average time to healing after surgery is 21-28 weeks (5-7 months)
    I have a couple of orthofriends looking at the injury: "I'm comparing the two injuries and PG24's is more distal (further down) and looks frankly like there was more muscle involvement than Ware's. Ware's was higher up in the leg, and the bone came out the front of the leg. That makes me think there was less involvement of the muscle and blood vessels that are crucial for healing." Thus PGs injury might be worse based on the video because it came out the back and side of the leg where a lot of crucial blood supply structures are located.
    The issue here is that if the blood supply gets disrupted then the skin overlaying the bone does too, which stops the bone's ability to heal.
    This looks like is an oblique transverse compound (and open) lower limb fracture
    Since the bone broke the skin, the issue is that he has an increased risk for infection. This will be the biggest issue for him in the next 24-48 hours. They will likely take him to the OR and immediately clean out the bone and remove any muscle that may be torn/damaged. (look like he's already in OR, which confirms this)
    There is a classification system for this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustilo...classification
    (Skoog: this is a general population study, likely not generalizable to athletes) Twelve months after the injury, 44 percent had not regained full function of the injured leg, although all but two of the patients had returned to preinjury working status.. twelve months after the injury, nearly half the patients still experienced functional limitations related to the fracture
    Regarding talk of Cameramen, etc, its unlikely that those were the cause. An unprovoked fracture like this probably had some sort of underlying fracture. Tibial fractures are far and away the most common type of fracture in athletes (Shin splits are a form of this). He may have had some sort of small underlying fracture that gave way when he twisted and landed in an awkward way.
    Yes, Kevin Ware had the same injury, but so did Joe Namath and this injury ended his career. And I'd argue that Kevin Ware was never the same again, and also was not the elite level athlete that PG was (360 windmill dunks are not something that Kevin Ware could do before the surgery). We may never see the same athleticism out of PG again
    keep in mind that when a bone fractures and pops out of place like that, it can tear a lot of blood vessels out the way out. The vessels surround the bone like Ivy on a tree. If the tree snaps the blood vessels do too. There's a crucial artery that runs behind the knee that can get severed in severe situations or trauma. From what I'm hearing, if they're putting pims It sounds like he's relatively stable. This is good news
    I, like everyone else here, hurled a little bit when I saw that play. I'm researching articles to see if I can find anything that would give a clear idea of his recovery. However, let's be clear here: the number of elite athletes with complete transverse open tibial fractures is like...n=5. There's not a lot of data for how these patients do.
    I'm looking specifically for anything specifically for athletes, and excluding trauma for these sorts of injuries (car accidents). What's difficult is that this injury basically depends on 3 things: 1) blood supply 2) resource/rehab of the patient 3) if any other muscles were torn (looks possible in that video.)
    At this point, its unlikely that anything more can be added to the conversation unless more information comes out. Its just speculation and frankly, MD's can't really say much about this unless we have the Xray and open him up ourselves, because these injuries in >99th percentile athletes just don't happen very often.


    @Pacers24Colts12

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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Not the end. The end of THIS year certainly but there is no reason to think he couldnt be back early next season. Sounds grizzly to think about but we are probably going to have a good draft pick next year. The only positive out of this situation.
    I Bleed Blue

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
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    If he can come back in a year it wont end the franchise, Remember Robinson had a year out because of injury and the spurs ended up with Duncan, the wold did not end but our season most certainly did, the question is do the Pacers go for the tank or try and eak into the playoffs hoping PG will be ok by then.
    Is that even a question? Offcourse, the Pacers will try to be as competitie as they can and will either make or just lose out on the playoffs, so no way will we end up with a top-5 lottery pick. Only other scenario IMHO is the Pacers starting to break up the core by trading one or more of them and trading some bench players that could be attractive to contending team(s) to get picks, young prospects and/or badcontracts and start a rebuild more or less. I think management if they chose this route would only be inclined to do such a thing if the first season half is even (far) below the now to be expected adapted season expectations an thus this would at the earliest start as the trading deadline approaches in the winter and would probably be continued as the 2015 draft comes close.

    But, I don't expect us to go in that direction. I expect a " blue collar" fighting mentality that will not net us a high lottery draft pick or anything worthwhile in the playoffs, betting on a healthy PG returning next season. Way too early for this, so we'll see what happens, but given how we've approached the season when the team was pretty bad a couple of years ago I don' t see us " tanking" (ever pretty much).
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    Default Re: Franchise Changer

    And Granger? No emotions, just observation.

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