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Thread: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

  1. #201
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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I guess if Noah was so good I don't really understand how they got stomped so handily by the Wiz. Noah was badly exposed in that series. Nene and Gortat kicked his ***.

    He had a very good regular season and he is a really tough player, but I think Noah's individual skill is extremely overrated. I honestly thought it was pretty silly he got so much MVP love.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I saw this over at Indy Cornrows and it started my thinking about our top defensive starters:

    "The starting backcourt will consist of GHill and two of: Watson, Stuckey, Miles, and Solo. I, personally, want to see Watson start at point with GHill at the 2 and Solo at the 3. The defense of a Watson/GHill/Solo/West/Hibbert starting five would still be a top 5 defense. Then, Stuckey would be the backup PG and run the bench units like Lance did last year and would be surrounded by shooters like Miles, Cope, and Rudez.

    "Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon!"
    by jdsdrummer on Aug 2, 2014 | 4:12 PM"

    Taking off from jdsdrummer's defensively oriented starters, we would have depth like this:

    Watson GHill/Stuckey/Sloan
    GHill Miles/Stuckey
    SHill Rudez/Copeland
    West Allen/Scola
    Hibbert Mahinmi/Allen/Whittington

    Although Paul George's injury is a huge loss, I don't see this lineup as at all hopeless. I think we should at least make it to second round. And who knows what might develop?

  3. #203

    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    we've got a shot to still make the playoffs but in no way are we winning a round. we'll be pretty massive underdogs.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by johndozark View Post
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    I saw this over at Indy Cornrows and it started my thinking about our top defensive starters:

    "The starting backcourt will consist of GHill and two of: Watson, Stuckey, Miles, and Solo. I, personally, want to see Watson start at point with GHill at the 2 and Solo at the 3. The defense of a Watson/GHill/Solo/West/Hibbert starting five would still be a top 5 defense. Then, Stuckey would be the backup PG and run the bench units like Lance did last year and would be surrounded by shooters like Miles, Cope, and Rudez.

    "Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon!"
    by jdsdrummer on Aug 2, 2014 | 4:12 PM"

    Taking off from jdsdrummer's defensively oriented starters, we would have depth like this:

    Watson GHill/Stuckey/Sloan
    GHill Miles/Stuckey
    SHill Rudez/Copeland
    West Allen/Scola
    Hibbert Mahinmi/Allen/Whittington

    Although Paul George's injury is a huge loss, I don't see this lineup as at all hopeless. I think we should at least make it to second round. And who knows what might develop?
    I would consider a GH/Watson/Solo/West/Hibbert Starting 5 as well. I think the offense and defense in the Starting lineup would be centered around GH/West/Hibbert as the #1 to #3 Scoring options with Watson and Solo as complementary Players that are much better at playing "off the ball" than Stuckey is. I would then build the 2nd unit around Stuckey where he's basically allowed to run the 2nd unit alongside Watson. KStat suggested that it would be best to surround Stuckey with shooters....while allowing him to dominate the ball, drive to the basket or kick it out to a waiting 3pt shooter. My preference would be to simply pair Stuckey with Watson, Miles and Copeland ( at the 4 spot ) while leaving Mahinmi to ONLY rebound and defend the paint.

    But my guess is that Vogel will simply start GH, Stuckey and Miles with Watson and Solo coming off the bench at the Wing Spots.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    we've got a shot to still make the playoffs but in no way are we winning a round. we'll be pretty massive underdogs.
    Well, if last season taught us anything, it's that NOTHING is a sure thing. Maybe this year some of that fortune will flip over to the 'good' category for us?
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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    we've got a shot to still make the playoffs but in no way are we winning a round. we'll be pretty massive underdogs.
    This is a transition year in the EC. I expect there to be less difference between the 1 and 8 seed than we've seen in this conference in a while. All of the projected top teams are, in essence, new (Chicago's been without Rose for a while). Be 8 months before we know for sure but those teams tend to be vulnerable.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  8. #207

    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Well, if last season taught us anything, it's that NOTHING is a sure thing. Maybe this year some of that fortune will flip over to the 'good' category for us?
    Last year we had a lot of good fortune. We got the 1 seed after choking down the stretch.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Well, if last season taught us anything, it's that NOTHING is a sure thing. Maybe this year some of that fortune will flip over to the 'good' category for us?
    I would already say fortune has rolled crap before anything has even started Pacers wise...can look at it from 2 perspectives, one being that this season is a total waste of time and that very little good will come from it as far as trying to win the Eastern Conference...or two, trying to see if George Hill, and Roy Hibbert can be revitalized where most the pressure will be on them and seeing what the team has in players like CJ Miles, Solomon Hill, and Damjan Rudez.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    That brawl team wasn't supposed to win dick either and they made the second round. So anything is possible I guess.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    In one sentence you have managed to trivialize a player who was first team all defense in the NBA as voted on by the media, and generally a player who is considered one of the if not the best two way players in the NBA.
    If I am trivializing him it is because I understand two things. The first being that the success and failure of this team has always hinged more on the play of Hibbert than George both defensively and offensively. Secondly being that a great defensive team does not need to be made up of great defensive players. Give a great defensive minded coach 5 average defenders, and if he can get them to buy into that system and put effort into that system they will have one of the best defenses in the league.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I don't understand why people want to rebuild al freaking ready. FOUR of the starters haven't even hit 30 yet. Back to back ECF. I get wanting to "tank", but gambling is only going to set this team back even farther. Lets go ahead and waste Paul George's prime years rebuilding. If the young guys don't work out then we'll be rebuilding for the rest of his career. You don't need to go trade his supporting cast. Just decrease their minutes while increasing the young and new guys' minutes.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    George Hill has to be one of the most underestimated players in the league. He's put on a show every time his usage rate has been high.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    If only David West were 10 years younger, I wouldn't be leaning towards a rebuilding mode.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmHoosier View Post
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    If only David West were 10 years younger, I wouldn't be leaning towards a rebuilding mode.
    I'd even go 5


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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by IAmHoosier View Post
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    If only David West were 10 years younger, I wouldn't be leaning towards a rebuilding mode.
    He is only one player.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Chillout View Post
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    Really interesting point. But if Bird knows he can't go with some version of the Philly route because of this, he also knows from the Murphleavy years that the almost adequacy route doesn't drive interest or (more to your point) attendance. Our current group without George is better than the Murphleavy Pacers, but by how much really?
    The MurphLeavy years were mired in mediocrity AFTER having alienated the fanbase via Brawl/Thuggishness. That surely isn't a valid comparison to a year of mediocrity after several really good years, including immediately following the most well-attended season in the fieldhouse yet..

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Very best thing that could happen is Solo Hill breaks out and looks like your starting wing of the future, next to PG. Sorry trying to pull some kind of awesome thing that could happen out of all of this mess.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Very best thing that could happen is Solo Hill breaks out and looks like your starting wing of the future, next to PG. Sorry trying to pull some kind of awesome thing that could happen out of all of this mess.

    He better get a crap ton of minutes this season. I don't care how sloppy he looks at the beginning of the season. Accept that he will have growing pains and keep playing him. We have to see what we have in this guy so we have a good idea a year from now as to whether he'll be a future piece or not.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    That brawl team wasn't supposed to win dick either and they made the second round. So anything is possible I guess.
    difference was that the team didn't lose its best player for the entire year but I agree anything can happen.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    That brawl team wasn't supposed to win dick either and they made the second round. So anything is possible I guess.
    OK, but don't forget Dale Davis and Reggie Miller were key memebers of that team late in the season. Dale played 25 games and averaged 29.5 minutes per game. Jackson, JO and JT all played in the playoffs. So that was a much more talented team I believe than the team we are likely to have this upcoming season
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-05-2014 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    difference was that the team didn't lose its best player for the entire year but I agree anything can happen.
    Ron Artest was out the whole year that season after the brawl.

    I like JO well enough but Ron was absolutely the best player on that team early in the year.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-04-2014 at 02:26 PM.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, but don't forget Dale David and Reggie Miller were key memebers of that team late in the season. Dale played 25 games and averaged 29.5 minutes per game. Jackson, JO and JT all played in the playoffs. So that was a much more talented team I believe than the team we are likely to have this upcoming season
    Hmmm, I guess.

    You had very old Reggie and very old Dale. JO was good, but already suffering greatly from his body breaking down and Jackson and Jamaal were certifiably crazy at times.

    I have a lot of faith in George Hill's talent. I think we will all see him play very good basketball this year. Don't know if it will be enough, but he has always produced extremely well when he has been given a high usage rate which Frank pretty much has to do this year.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    All that being said, Paul George is a significantly more impactful player IMO than Artest or JO were in 2004.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I've had enough time since the injury to wrap my head around the scenario and break my silence. We have to play with the hand dealt to us, and I think there is certainly some things to be gained from a season like the one we are about to enter, as crushing as this event is for all of us. With limited expectations, we can now look to Paul's return, and have the freedom to treat this season as a prolonged training camp. Think of all of the young players who might not make the cut for their respective teams. Think of the young unsigned guys who are looking for the right system to find a niche in (Marshon Brooks?). I think the Pacers FO should look to this season to mine free agency for young players who might fill a role that would complement the complete team once Paul returns. We are now in a position where we can take low-risk high-gain chances on these types of players. It's a huge stretch, but maybe see if a guy like Royce White is ready to be given a 4th chance at being something in this league. Similar to what happened in Chicago, this season could shape a lot of our players into a great scaffold of role-players in which to plug in our star, Paul, when he is healthy. I am very hopeful about all of the reports that his recovery will likely be 100%, and even like to dream of the scenario in which he has some sort of added bone calcification and gets stronger from all of this, due to the intense rehabilitation workouts he will be undergoing.

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    Default Re: 180º Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    My expectations at this point it to develop Solo and make it to the 1st round of the Playoffs....anything beyond that is icing on the cake.

    Local Indy Fans won't tolerate a season of tanking where the Team intentionally loses.....fans wants to go out and enjoy a competitive game. Getting blown out in games won't help that at all.

    What I do not know is how Vogel will make changes to the offense/defense. Will he adapt to the current Players on his roster and play to their strengths or not?

    My hope is that he tailors the Starting Lineup to focus the offense/defense around GH/West/Hibbert as some combination of 1st through 3rd scoring options. This also means getting more complementary Players into the Starting Lineup...like some 2 man combination of Watson/Miles/Solo.

    Is it possible to change the offense/defense and how it is run between the 1st and 2nd Units?

    I think that the way that the Starting Lineup is run should be different than how it is run in the 2nd Unit. In the Starting Lineup...I want it built around taking advantage of the strengths of GH/West/Hibbert with Players that complement ( not take away ) from them ( like only having Watson/Miles/Solo play with them ).

    In the 2nd unit...I want the offense built around Stuckey with Players that complement him ( specifically surrounding him with 3pt shooters ) and Mahinmi in the Paint doing nothing but defend/rebound/block shots.

    If it means Mass substitutions ( assuming that no one is on a scoring tear ) where 5 sits and 5 get substituted.....then I am fine with that.

    The question is what Vogel will do with Stuckey.....I don't want him to play with the Starting lineup....I want him running the 2nd Unit alongside GH/Watson with some combination of Miles/Solo/Copeland at the Wings.
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-04-2014 at 04:09 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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