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Thread: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

  1. #176

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think it is VERY important to consider what happens to a just-recovered attendance if the Pacers decide to dump their remaining decent players and go for the lottery. Here on PD we like to talk that people won't go to games if we're "stuck in mediocrity", that people will go to "see young talent" even ifg we're getting our heads handed to us every week, but I think the reality for most casual fans is that they want a reasonable (not guaranteed) chance of winning the games THEY go see. The rest of the record only matters as a predictor of that. It's why I figure that if we went 41-41 winning every home game and losing every away game we'd be sold out more likely than if we went 61-21 but all 21 of those losses were at home.
    Really interesting point. But if Bird knows he can't go with some version of the Philly route because of this, he also knows from the Murphleavy years that the almost adequacy route doesn't drive interest or (more to your point) attendance. Our current group without George is better than the Murphleavy Pacers, but by how much really?

    I hope he chooses something of compromise strategy. Solo Hill is intriguing, but if he somehow becomes a more offensively-oriented Derrick McKey, I'd be thrilled. Even if that happens, what casual fan came to games to watch Derrick McKey? So, I'd like to see another young player with real potential to watch develop this year.

    Trading David West would have to be the key. Hibbert has some value, but with likely less potential return value, and Hill is more valuable to us than to any other team IMO (however valuable that might be). Lot of teams looking to compete this season would give up potential for the proven of what West delivers.
    Last edited by Chuck Chillout; 08-03-2014 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #177
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    You also don't have anyone like Aldridge.
    We didn't last year either.

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  4. #178
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We didn't last year either.
    The offense didn't work like portland's last season either.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  6. #179
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    we don't have competent defenders to replace Lance (who wasn't as good as people seem to think, but far better than anything we've got left) and PG, we've got friggin Rodney Stuckey and CJ Miles. maybe Solo'll surprise, all for giving him heavy minutes but it's not like any of us actually know anything about what he can do at this level. I'm assuming right now the lineup is Hill/Stuckey/Miles/West/Roy. only two of those guys are good defenders and Roy's a backline guy that's not about to step out on the PnR or something.

    I have no clue what we're going to look like next year to be honest. if nothing else we'll see how versatile Frank can be, we clearly can't just take the put PG on the best wing and funnel everybody else to Roy approach, Roy'll be fouled out by half. regardless of how we play it's going to be ugly, that's fine, but I'm really interested in how Frank and the staff gameplan this year. I think it's pretty obvious we're going to have the slow the offense down to a snail's pace, McMillan will be big there.
    I keep seeing the Stuckey/hill/miles/west/hibbert line-up. The line-up itself doesn't scare me as much as what it does to the bench. We only have two SG on the team Miles and G.Hill, starting both IMO is a bad idea. I still like a line-up of watson/hill/Rudez/west/hibbert with stuckly/miles/solo/scola/ian. Gives a good balance with O and D with both the reserves and starters. If Rudez is the same shooter in the NBA (hopefully not Sauranus 2.0), he can replace some of the lost O in the starting line-up. I hear he is weak on D, if that's the case I would much rather have him in the starting line-up with guys that make up for it than to run a watson/solo/rudez/scola/ian reserve line-up.

  7. #180
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    As great of a defender Paul is, he wasn't the reason, or even the most important reason, why our defense is as good as it has been. If you throw in a couple of very competent defenders to replace Lance and Paul I don't think we miss a beat as long as Hibbert is here.

    It is the offense that is more in question. This is Roy's chance to show what kind of offensive player he is capable of being. As well I think Hill is going to step up and show everyone that $8 million might be a bargain. Overall though, I am hoping this forces Vogel to really get creative on offense, and actually implement an offense instead of relying on wing and post isos all of the time. One thing I do not want to see is relying on West to be our first option on offense. In crunch time that is fine, but on your average play I really do not want to see him being any higher than the third option.

    Right now I could see this team being anything from a bottom 10 team to the 4 seed. It all hinges on how well Hibbert and Hill step up as offensive options.
    In one sentence you have managed to trivialize a player who was first team all defense in the NBA as voted on by the media, and generally a player who is considered one of the if not the best two way players in the NBA.

    Roy does one thing, he protects the rim. That's it. He's very good at it I'll give you that but beyond that Roy defensively is nothing special. He's not a particularly good post defender, he is okay for his size and speed at covering the P&R and obviously if a team can take him away from the basket he loses his ability to defend the rim.

    By mid season teams had us scouted and started changing up their offense accordingly. This is why I am one of those people who actually think that there was a locker room issue but still believe a large part of what happened in the second half was that teams adjusted to us and we did not or could not adjust back.

    Also there is another thing to consider, by the midway point of last season I started to notice the refs no longer giving Roy the benefit of the doubt on the verticality rule. I think there was some politicking by Doc Rivers & LeBron James (among others) that made the league office take notice and Roy was now getting some fouls called that he wasn't before. They extend that into this season or worse yet start going against him and he becomes useless on the floor.

    To me one does not work particularly well without the other, that is why this year is going to be the year that we see how good Frank really is.


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  9. #181
    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    What will hurt worse is this team clawing and fighting like mad to make the playoffs. This team will be better served by getting a high lottery pick.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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  11. #182
    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    What will hurt worse is this team clawing and fighting like mad to make the playoffs. This team will be better served by getting a high lottery pick.
    how is 2015 draft? anyone knows?

  12. #183

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    how is 2015 draft? anyone knows?
    Lots of undersized forwards, international players and incomplete players with a skill but only a skill. It does have several centers that could develop in time to a usable player though.

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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    About 8 months too early to make a definitive call on next year's prospects.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Lance was only a good defender when he put his mind to it. He let a banged up D Wade light him up in the ECF this year because he was too worried about getting his on the other end, not to mention the Lebron antics.
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    We didn't last year either.
    Agree. As much as I love West, Lamarcus eats him for breakfast.

  18. #187
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    Agree. As much as I love West, Lamarcus eats him for breakfast.
    Paul George has (or had) a higher ceiling than Aldridge, but no Pacer played as well as him last year. He is in his prime and had the best year of his already very good career.

  19. #188

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I don't see it. We don't have the scrappy slap the floor kind of defenders and dirty workers to play like that.
    I don't think people give guys like Noah, Gibson, and Boozer enough credit particularly Noah. He is still getting better.

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  21. #189

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    I don't think people give guys like Noah, Gibson, and Boozer enough credit particularly Noah. He is still getting better.
    I think Noah gets too much credit, people were talking about him being the best center in the league and being better than Paul George at times.

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  23. #190
    A Hill to get over a hill Richard_Skull's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    The Lakers Franchise is an entirely different beast. In LA the Lakers are the hot ticket. From an outsiders perspective, perhaps it is out of the realm of possibility. But there are alotta variables involved that the common fan will rarely understand.

    Again, let me make it as clear as I can. Out of RESPECT and GRATITUDE too DWEST where would you like to see him end up? Maybe the PG injury has influenced my judgement but I want to see DWEST have another shot at a TITLE. I SINCERELY do. Even to the point that I would likely root for the Lakers, a team ive despised more than many for years.

    So again, out of RESPECT to DWEST where would you all see him fitting best. Kobe has an old mans game I believe would work very well with David. Charlotte is another spot if somehow they would give up Zeller, but I am sure that would take Roy and they are capped out.

    I guess it comes down to how good can Kobe still be. Honestly, I have concluded that despite the fact I am not a fan of Kobe or will I ever be, he is one tough *** competitor you can never count out. He could play 3 more seasons at a very high level and it would not come as a surprise to me one bit.

    Is there a trade that works with them, right now I dont care to scrutinize in such detail. But my assumption is after they lost Gasol and were pursuing Melo that there is some trade that could be assembled. After all its LA, they will pay the tax without hesitation.

    Hell for all we know, Bird could literally gutt the core of the team. Hill, DWEST, Roy. To LA to join Kobe and Nash. Thats the core of a back to back ECF. Say what you want of the EAST. Pacers have still won about 100 regular season games the previous two seasons.

    How often do "prospects" not work out. Im sure detroit basketball knows a thing or two about this with darko. we all experienced another #2 overall bust this season in Turner.

    The window for championships is often a fleeting one. As again Pacer fans will likely have to endure for the next couple of seasons. Hell the Lakers would have paid the Luxury Tax to sign Melo and retain Gasol.

    If Kobe and Nash have anything left, Hill, Hibbert, West give them a "chance" to win a Championship. Are they willing to give that up for a 19 year old kid with potential.? I claim to be no expert with the NBA drafts, but ive seen a time or two these top overall picks turn out to be complete garbage. Maybe this Randle kid is the next Karl Malone, only time will tell.

    But LA's not gauranteed another Kobe anytime soon. The thread is "expectations" for the 2014-2015 season. My response that I may be a part time laker fan if DWEST were to get dealt there is apparently not welcome by some in this thread. Fair enough, but I am still entitled to my opinion and reserve the right to post wherever I deem most relevant.

    I believe Larry Legend will trade DWEST to a contender and its the right move to be made. Not a move I was hoping to see but at this time its the best chance for West to get a ring. With Kareem working out Hibbert maybe its not a bad idea to include Roy as well.

    Kobe, Roy, West, Nash, Hill would be damn near a top 4 team out West if Kobe still has any game. By the time PG is back to 100%, DWEST skills will have diminished. I prefer to not see his career end that way.

    Much like Reginald Wayne Millers. His final season in the NBA with Title aspirations was dashed due to some idiot fan all liquored up throwing a beer cup and a dickhead for a league commissioner.

    I would like to see DWEST have one more shot at a Title, and LA is the best bet with Kobe.
    Best place to trade DWEST for the sake of DWEST would be Houston imo. I think he would also fit nicely with Charlotte, but I wouldn't consider them contenders.
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  25. #191
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I think Noah gets too much credit, people were talking about him being the best center in the league and being better than Paul George at times.
    Not that it really matters much but there was a lot of discussion about Noah being an MVP candidate last season. He was never going to beat out Durrant but there was talk.

    Also he was the best center in the NBA last year.


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  27. #192
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Not that it really matters much but there was a lot of discussion about Noah being an MVP candidate last season. He was never going to beat out Durrant but there was talk.

    Also he was the best center in the NBA last year.
    Noah was very deserving of his accolades but in no way was he the best center in the nba last season. He was a guy that made his teammates better but individually was not a dominant player.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  28. #193
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Noah was very deserving of his accolades but in no way was he the best center in the nba last season. He was a guy that made his teammates better but individually was not a dominant player.
    Who was a better center? Dwight? Marc Gasol? Other?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  29. #194

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Who was a better center? Dwight? Marc Gasol? Other?
    I would take Dwight over Noah every day of the week.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Who was a better center? Dwight? Marc Gasol? Other?
    Dwight for one. Even with a bad back and zero intangibles he's still a more productive player than Noah. Gasol is about on par with Noah overall.

    I'd take Al Jefferson over Noah as well.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-03-2014 at 05:33 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  31. #196

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Who was a better center? Dwight? Marc Gasol? Other?
    Gasol and Dwight were both pretty good, Dwight carried the Houston Rockets in the playoff series, he just didn't get any help.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I don't think it'll be much longer before drummond blows by Noah as well. Only reason Noah ranks above him at the moment is experience. Physically there's no comparison.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  33. #198
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    I tend to forget that Howard still puts up big stats so I guess I will say he is better but I'm not sure by how much. They just don't play the same way.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  34. #199

    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I tend to forget that Howard still puts up big stats so I guess I will say he is better but I'm not sure by how much. They just don't play the same way.
    He also put up 26 ppg and 13 rpg on about 60% shooting in the playoffs. Im sorry but Noah doesn't effect the game even near that much.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 180 Turn: 2014-2015 Season Expectations and Thoughts

    Noah is a jack of all trades type, probably the best in the nba at it. He just isn't great in any one area, and isn't a major threat to score or shut down the paint by himself.

    Again, great intangibles. Just not great by himself.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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