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Thread: Our starting backcourt

  1. #51
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    That's one of your criteria for judging a player ?? You're starting to confirm what some of us have been thinking.
    That would explain why we never won a title with Larry Bird coaching. He lacked desire in his outer (facial), with that stoic demeanor, and that set a bad example for the team.
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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Paul George doesn't have all of Lance's antics either but he reminds me of Tracy McGrady. They have that sleepy-eyed/laid back thing going but they have the pure talent and desire to score 20 easy in a game. If Hill was like that I'd be cool with him starting for us. But he isn't. He lacks desire on his outer (facial) and his inner (heart). That's a bad mix, sorry to tell ya.
    I don't see how one can judge GH ( much less any Player ) by his outer facial expression or his inner "heart" whether he has the desire or not to play at a high level. GH personality is more reserved, but just because he doesn't have the personality of Lance or LeBron....doesn't mean that he doesn't have the desire to be excel at what he does. I can see how one may question his desire to play at a high level due to his lack of aggression at times throughout last season. I don't absolve him of any of the blame for his lack of aggression....but I also attribute his lack of production to the different role that Vogel had him play on the Team ( more off the ball and less on the ball ).
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Mavericks - Felton/Ellis
    Jazz - Burke/Burks (unless Hayward starts then no)
    Magic - oladipo/???
    Hawks - Teague/Sefalosha
    Nets - Williams/Anderson (???)
    Knicks - Calderon/Hardaway

    Not to start a flame war, but I would absolutely take Hardaway and Calderon over what we have.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Not to start a flame war, but I would absolutely take Hardaway and Calderon over what we have.
    How is Hardaway any better than Miles? He sucks on defense. I also see no reason to want Calderon over Hill, imagine us having Calderon try to guard John Wall in the playoffs, it would be awful, as well as George Hill being the better scorer.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 07-31-2014 at 10:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Not to start a flame war, but I would absolutely take Hardaway and Calderon over what we have.
    Offensively maybe.

    The point of my post was to show that there are quite a few backcourts where its debatable as to who is better and who isn't

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    I've mentioned this before, but a lot of SF/SG are interchangeable in today's NBA. Teams with all star caliber, scoring backcourts tend to have a specialist at the 3. (defensive minded, 3pt shooting, jack of all trades, athlete, etc). We have a superstar at the SF spot, and our specialist at the 2-Guard. The "fit" of these 3 players is nearly as important as the individual talent of the 3.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    The monta Ellis I saw last season was better than any two players on that list.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  12. #58
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Mavericks - Felton/Ellis
    Jazz - Burke/Burks (unless Hayward starts then no)
    Magic - oladipo/???
    Hawks - Teague/Sefalosha
    Nets - Williams/Anderson (???)
    Knicks - Calderon/Hardaway
    Summer...

    Ellis, Teague and Deron Williams are far better than CJ freaking Miles and George Hill. They are near all-star level.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I've mentioned this before, but a lot of SF/SG are interchangeable in today's NBA. Teams with all star caliber, scoring backcourts tend to have a specialist at the 3. (defensive minded, 3pt shooting, jack of all trades, athlete, etc). We have a superstar at the SF spot, and our specialist at the 2-Guard. The "fit" of these 3 players is nearly as important as the individual talent of the 3.
    There is a difference between a highly skilled specialist on a contender and a team who plays a backup as their starter.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The monta Ellis I saw last season was better than any two players on that list.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly, and I've long been an Ellis fan. But Felton is not a very good PG anymore. I'm assuming we are talking about thw entirety of the backcourt and not just who has the best player

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    but I also attribute his lack of production to the different role that Vogel had him play on the Team ( more off the ball and less on the ball ).
    I agreed with the rest of your post, but that's just plain wrong. Hill had the ball far more than any other player on our team last year, and when he had it, he had it for much longer periods of time than any other player. I know he frequently (and slowly) brought the ball up court, but not enough to account for his time of ball possession.
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I've mentioned this before, but a lot of SF/SG are interchangeable in today's NBA. Teams with all star caliber, scoring backcourts tend to have a specialist at the 3. (defensive minded, 3pt shooting, jack of all trades, athlete, etc). We have a superstar at the SF spot, and our specialist at the 2-Guard. The "fit" of these 3 players is nearly as important as the individual talent of the 3.
    This is why the backcourt/frontcourt paradigm is outdated, and useless in any conversation about modern basketball. The SF position isn't a forward position anymore, but a guard position. You have wings and post players. Backcourt and frontcourt needs to die.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 08-01-2014 at 10:15 AM.

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  19. #63

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    Is there a worse starting backcourt in the NBA than what we are likely to roll out?
    The Kings with Collison and McLemore, the Pistons with Jennings and Jodie Meeks or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Bucks with Brandon Knight and the Greek Freak or Fat OJ Mayo, Jose Calderon and JR Smith in New York, MCW and whatever garbage SG the Tanking Sixers start (although they don't count as an NBA team), maybe the Lakers if Kobe is somehow not ready to play.

    So there are about 6 teams with a worse starting backcourt.

  20. #64

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    That's one of your criteria for judging a player ?? You're starting to confirm what some of us have been thinking.
    When I watch Hill play, if he doesn't look annoyed he looks depressed. That's not a good sign for a point guard unless he just missed an and 1 or turned the ball over. He always looks this way.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    When I watch Hill play, if he doesn't look annoyed he looks depressed. That's not a good sign for a point guard unless he just missed an and 1 or turned the ball over. He always looks this way.
    How much Pacers basketball did you watch prior to this past season?

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    When I watch Hill play, if he doesn't look annoyed he looks depressed. That's not a good sign for a point guard unless he just missed an and 1 or turned the ball over. He always looks this way.
    Great therapeutic breakthrough, Dr. Grimp!

    Seriously, if he ALWAYS looks that way, maybe it's just his natural expression and not an externalization of overwhelming internal angst that can never be banished from his tortured uncaring soul.
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Seriously, if he ALWAYS looks that way, maybe it's just his natural expression and not an externalization of overwhelming internal angst that can never be banished from his tortured uncaring soul.
    lol

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    I seriously hope we make some addition to our roster. We need a another starting caliber swingman.

    I would love Ray Allen (but he probably wont come here...Marion would also be a great addition (moving George to SG and letting Marion start at SF)...
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  26. #69

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    How much Pacers basketball did you watch prior to this past season?
    A lot. I don't think facial expressions tell the whole story, but when you show no life as a player. Obviously, the face tells the whole story.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    This is true and that's a good thing. Using the traditional term "backcourt" is a painful thought when it's just CJ and GHill. Once you throw Paul in with that it's not so bad.

  28. #71

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Summer...

    Ellis, Teague and Deron Williams are far better than CJ freaking Miles and George Hill. They are near all-star level.
    Deron Williams? Williams sucks now.

  29. #72
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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I would take our Starting Backcourt over the:

    Bucks - Knight/Mayo
    Knicks - Jose/JR
    Pistons - Jennings / Meeks
    Heat - Chalmers / Wade
    Kings - Collison / McLemore

    I'm not a fan of either Knight or Mayo so I will take Hill over either of them however I would think Miles would be below Mayo (although I don't like Mayo) so the Bucks I'll give us a slight edge but only based on Hill.

    Sorry I don't agree about the Knicks. I hate Smith and would never want him on our team but he is a two way player on occasion. Jose while a horrid defender is a true point guard and he can also shoot. So no I won't give us an edge over the Knicks, I'd put them slightly ahead of us.

    I hate Brandon Jennings and wouldn't want him anywhere near our team. However he can score, I'm not all that familiar with Meeks so I'll give us the edge on the Pistons but again only based on Hill.

    Chalmers/Wade? I mean honestly is this just hate talking on your part? Wade on one leg hauling an oxygen tank up and down the court is better than either Hill or Miles and while Mario had a bad playoff series he has more than once in the past dominated Hill. Sorry but this isn't close, the Heat by a mile.

    I like McLemore I think he has real honest potential to be a solid NBA player. Collison is what Collison is. I will take Hill over Collison any day of the week so we win that one however I would take McLemore over Miles. So to me this is a wash.


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  31. #73

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    A lot. I don't think facial expressions tell the whole story, but when you show no life as a player. Obviously, the face tells the whole story.
    No the face doesn't tell the whole story.

  32. #74

    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I'm not a fan of either Knight or Mayo so I will take Hill over either of them however I would think Miles would be below Mayo (although I don't like Mayo) so the Bucks I'll give us a slight edge but only based on Hill.

    Sorry I don't agree about the Knicks. I hate Smith and would never want him on our team but he is a two way player on occasion. Jose while a horrid defender is a true point guard and he can also shoot. So no I won't give us an edge over the Knicks, I'd put them slightly ahead of us.

    I hate Brandon Jennings and wouldn't want him anywhere near our team. However he can score, I'm not all that familiar with Meeks so I'll give us the edge on the Pistons but again only based on Hill.

    Chalmers/Wade? I mean honestly is this just hate talking on your part? Wade on one leg hauling an oxygen tank up and down the court is better than either Hill or Miles and while Mario had a bad playoff series he has more than once in the past dominated Hill. Sorry but this isn't close, the Heat by a mile.

    I like McLemore I think he has real honest potential to be a solid NBA player. Collison is what Collison is. I will take Hill over Collison any day of the week so we win that one however I would take McLemore over Miles. So to me this is a wash.
    I don't see much in McLemore, I mean he shot 37% from the field this past season, thats terrible. I feel like McLemore's ceiling is C.J. Miles, a good 3 pt shooter and off-ball player who can play some defense, nothing more.

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    Default Re: Our starting backcourt

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    A lot. I don't think facial expressions tell the whole story, but when you show no life as a player. Obviously, the face tells the whole story.
    I know people are making fun of the facial expression thing, but in truth, he didn't seem to care as the season went on. Studies show approximately 55% of our communication is non-verbal. Obviously for basketball players to us fans it's much higher than that as we're not on the court talking to them, but we do get some post-game interviews and in-game communication with other players, coaches etc... Hill looked fed up with the entire team for the last couple months.
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