Too many ifs for a team to really be an title contender. If Roy figures things out. If Hill plays aggressive. If guys can play at a consistently high level (and be more consistently good).
Ultimately, I just don't think Vogel can get it done. Just haven't seen much growth from him as a coach. His offense is a nightmare and still hasn't brought in someone that can take that portion over. He doesn't utilize bench/role players well. Can see that by every bench player he has seems to have a career low in performance. I do think Watson has been pretty steady though. The team just continues to make the same mistakes over and over, most likely due to a poor offensive scheme. And the 1 thing they were great at they completely fell apart on the last half of the season and into the playoffs and that was the #1 defense.
3 scenarios for the draft, starting with my favorite first:
1. Pacers trade up for Justice Winslow
2. Take WCS or Stanley Johnson (this is the theory of a player falling); Make trades (Hibbert/West/others) for additional picks - George Lucas and Rakeem Christmas are players I'd love to have with a late first/early 2nd round
3. Trey Lyles
I'm sure my opinion will change many times before the draft though.
Hill being aggressive is not an if, it is a matter of role. There is no question that he will be the second wing option.
The only other ifs are typical ifs that most teams have. (i.e. will the new players fit in?)
I don't think anyone in the East is a championship contender in the strictest sense of the word, which I take to mean the 3-4 teams with the best chance of winning the title.
After what we saw last year Post ASB, why would anyone believe our Championship window was solely dependent on whether or not Lance was here. We were pretty average the second half of the season, and tended to lean on PG and West after game 5 debacle against the Hawks in the first round. That's not to say that Lance wasn't an intrical part of what helped us get to ECF, but we weren't as dependent upon him as some would make it seem.
And given that older, veteran teams usually win titles, one could say that the Pacers window is just opening.
I believe our window closed when we lost Brian Shaw as an assistant. I also believe we are in a position where our window could easily open again.
I'm with Peck, even with Lance we weren't real contenders. People can talk about all the ECF they want, it's still the eastern conference. The west had at least 4, arguably 9 teams better than anyone but the Heat last year...and 2-4 of those teams were better than the Heat. I really think the Suns, who didn't even make the playoffs, would have bounced us in a 7 game series. If the goal is a title then the team, even with Lance, wasn't a real threat to take home the hardware.
That said, you don't get closer to taking home the hardware by losing young talent without getting anything for it. Whether you love or hate Lance, you should have wanted us to sign him, if for no other reason then the trade him later. You can't give stuff away for nothing, that's not how you improve.
I'm not so sure now the window was ever really open last season.
After seeing the Spurs put on their clinic on how to play the game the right way
at its highest level, it seems to me like there was only one contender.
Until the Pacers (or anyone else) show they can execute at that level on a
consistent basis, forget about contending.
Spurs lose to Heat in 7 games "Eh, that's just the Eastern Conference......."
It just amazes me how people like to de-value what the Pacers have done the past two seasons. Almost like it's agenda driven, not fact driven. In the last 3 years, the Pacers have lost to the NBA champions twice and the runner-up once. But the Pacers just play in the EC so, what they do isn't reflective of the entire NBA.
Last edited by Since86; 07-25-2014 at 01:17 PM.
“Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.
What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?
Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.
Even as the year ended on a sour note I said that getting to the E.C. finals officially made last year a success.
So, no I don't look at it as "its the east" because honestly I think some of that is overblown.
Something went horribly wrong last year. Team sports is a weird dynamic, and when something goes as wrong as it did last year, you just don't know if the team will recover. On paper I feel we are a less talented team, and that our window has closed. However, if Hibbert turns into good Hibbert for a full year and PG improves his offensive team play, then the window can quickly reopen. Add to that the play of Miles and Stuckey, and Vogel improving as a coach, and the team could very well continue to contend. I just don't think we will. Hope they prove me wrong.
Has the window closed?
No, I think we still have an opening. DW will play at his high skill level, PG will be improved, I think GH will play better, Solo will have a role and Roy will be better than the second half of the season.
Pacers are still going to win 50+
Hibbert will play better because its a potential contract year. Luis will find his game and have a good year. With Lance I doubt the Pacers have the same depth in terms of Allen and Luis, along with some other potential moves going forward.
Hill will play like the guy we originally signed to 40 and 5.
Lance is way over rated on this board. Teams dont want nothing to do with Lance, Boston Phx NY Heat all passed him by. Phx would have been ideal for stephensons talents.
personally never a big fan of lanceys hottdawging and showboating and 1 rucker park game. liked the passion and fire he gave most nites but feel it was contract driven.
nothing special defensively from Lance was shown in the playoffs,, in fact almost the opposite,, if not for turner setting the bar so low defensively most of pacer fans would have seen lance pretty much sucked. losing his man mulitple times vs korvers, beal, ariza.... and a balky knee'd dwade lit up stephensons big mouth that he couldnt back with his play. offensively lance standing around not knowing plays.. his half a** effort to get back defensively on plays.
ohter than the sudden scoring spurt that lance was capable of i really am not going to miss his crazy *** antics on the court. Lance just never struck me as a team first type of guy and still shocked Bird coddled this kid as much as did in spite of the obvious talent he has Lances immaturity cost him millions.
again, woulda been fine seeing lance return at charlottes offer but not overly dissapointed either way seeing Lance walk. For all those saying the Pacers window has closed.. does that mean Charlotte's window has now opened???
If CJ miles can play defense and hit the 3 Pacers should be fine and win another 50.
Alot of the teams success is gonna to hinge on Hibbert. this teams second highest player cannot be putting up rebounding and scorign goose eggs.
To answer the topic question, as long as PG is on the team and Bird running the Franchise the window will remain open.
When the season ended, I felt that our window had closed. However, I also felt that Lance was a significant part of the reason we fell apart down the stretch. With him gone and LeBron returning to Cleveland, I feel we have one more shot, this year, to at least make it to the Finals. We'll need a back court upgrade to become true title contenders, though.
What you own is your own kingdom
What you do is your own glory
What you love is your own power
What you live is your own story