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Thread: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

  1. #76
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    I don't want to over-analyze his game, I just want to make one observation:

    I noticed something physically wrong with him after the All-Star break. He had no elevation, and he ran down the court like he was running on a turf of spikes.

    I've been suspecting something ailing him and he didn't disclose it to the public. It's not the first time he's done this; he injured his hand previously and went through a bad slump and then during the off-season disclosed he had been playing through a hand injury, he couldn't feel his hand or something... which MIGHT have a slight impact on your shot, I dunno, just a hunch.

    I suspect that a large part of his poor play was something physical with him... feet... back.... something... I would not be shocked at all if it came out that he's having feet problems, guys his size typically struggle with that.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 07-25-2014 at 02:48 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    OP - you've used statistics to create the illusion of consistency with Roy. That's all well and good assuming the playoffs are played out over 4 years, but they aren't. The singular expectation for this team is to win a championship. You don't win a championship by averaging decent or even great numbers over your career. Ask Kevin Love. Or Charles Barkley.

    You win a championship by sustained excellence, a little luck, and the correct mindset. Not wildly fluctuating from one extreme to the other during the course of ONE SEASON. This is indicative of a problem beyond physical limitations. I agree with you that the problem isn't that the league has "figured Roy out." The problem is that Roy hasn't figured himself out.

    Roy quit on this team last year. He slumped (forgivable), his teammates went away from him (understandable), and he quit (unforgivable). Simple as that.

    My issue with Roy isn't his career block or rebound numbers. It's his consistency and his attitude. If the expectation is to win a championship then he cannot be a major contributor in his current state. I'm putting that as nicely as I can. In my opinion Roy needs to go. We can't leverage our future on an inconsistent head case, and that's exactly what we did when we gave him a max contract.

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  5. #78

    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    What's Kareem going to teach Roy in 3-4 days that he couldn't learn from Walton or Tim Duncan?
    How to win?

  6. #79
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife View Post
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    How to win?
    Walton and Duncan are winners.

    Hopefully Kareem is a better teacher.

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  8. #80

    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    Walton and Duncan are winners.

    Hopefully Kareem is a better teacher.
    Walton has 2 NBA Championships, Duncan has 5 and Kareem has 6. Not sure your point is valid.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Walton has 2 NBA Championships, Duncan has 5 and Kareem has 6. Not sure your point is valid.
    He wasn't refuting Kareem's status as a winner, he was just pointing out that Hibbert's already spent a great deal of time around other winners. Anyway, I trust the Big Dawg. He knows this past season was a disappointment and I think he'll use it as fuel all season long.
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    Walton and Duncan are winners.

    Hopefully Kareem is a better teacher.
    No one is a good enough teacher to make significant changes to a grown basketball player in a few days. Muscle memory doesn't work like that.

    If Kareem were hired as a full time personal trainer or assistant coach or something, that might be one thing, but this is fluff.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  13. #83
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    No one is a good enough teacher to make significant changes to a grown basketball player in a few days. Muscle memory doesn't work like that.

    If Kareem were hired as a full time personal trainer or assistant coach or something, that might be one thing, but this is fluff.
    It will give the coaching staff and Roy some drills and exercises to continue working on after he's done directly teaching Hibbert. Just because he leaves doesn't mean the work will stop.
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    It will give the coaching staff and Roy some drills and exercises to continue working on after he's done directly teaching Hibbert. Just because he leaves doesn't mean the work will stop.
    That's the equivalent to buying Kareem's workout video. Again, not that simple. Making real, legitimate changes to Hibbert's game would take months if not years of constant personal attention.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  16. #85

    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That's the equivalent to buying Kareem's workout video. Again, not that simple. Making real, legitimate changes to Hibbert's game would take months if not years of constant personal attention.
    How do you know Roy won't be doing these drills Kareem himself showed him for months? It wouldn't take years, guys make changed to their game over the summer all the time.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That's the equivalent to buying Kareem's workout video. Again, not that simple. Making real, legitimate changes to Hibbert's game would take months if not years of constant personal attention.
    I disagree. While obviously having him there as a paid assistant would be better, there's a clear benefit to getting help from other professionals in person, even if its only for a short time.

    Workshops >>>>>>> informational videos simply because you can get positive and negative feedback on how you're already doing things and then on how you're trying out new drills or processes. As long as you continue working on it, you can increase the benefit beyond the weeklong sessions or however long it is.

    Now, if somebody thinks he's going to jump to being a 15/10 center because of his work with Kareem, they're going to be disappointed. But getting outside help is a valuable part of growing and stabilizing your game.
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  19. #87
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    How do you know Roy won't be doing these drills Kareem himself showed him for months? It wouldn't take years, guys make changed to their game over the summer all the time.
    Like I said, if it were that simple, then Kareem should make a fortune selling workout tapes.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I disagree. While obviously having him there as a paid assistant would be better, there's a clear benefit to getting help from other professionals in person, even if its only for a short time.

    Workshops >>>>>>> informational videos simply because you can get positive and negative feedback on how you're already doing things and then on how you're trying out new drills or processes. As long as you continue working on it, you can increase the benefit beyond the weeklong sessions or however long it is.

    Now, if somebody thinks he's going to jump to being a 15/10 center because of his work with Kareem, they're going to be disappointed. But getting outside help is a valuable part of growing and stabilizing your game.
    I agree that outside help is always important. There simply isn't enough time here to make much of an impact outside of maybe changing Roy's mental approach. Changing his actual game is not happening in this short window.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    It will give the coaching staff and Roy some drills and exercises to continue working on after he's done directly teaching Hibbert. Just because he leaves doesn't mean the work will stop.
    Does anyone know if any of the coaching staff, from Vogel on down, been attending these sessions?

    We know Pritchard has been around a bit, but are our coaches observing this teaching?

  23. #90
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Does anyone know if any of the coaching staff, from Vogel on down, been attending these sessions?

    We know Pritchard has been around a bit, but are our coaches observing this teaching?
    I don't know for sure but if coaches attend it may be considered a practice, and I think those are restricted during the off-season by the CBA. Players can do what they want individually and severally, but except for specific activities like Summer League no formal team workouts can take place.
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I don't know for sure but if coaches attend it may be considered a practice, and I think those are restricted during the off-season by the CBA. Players can do what they want individually and severally, but except for specific activities like Summer League no formal team workouts can take place.
    Good point. I had not thought if it from that angle. Might explain why Pritchard was there instead. Hope the team film crew was around.

  25. #92
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I agree that outside help is always important. There simply isn't enough time here to make much of an impact outside of maybe changing Roy's mental approach. Changing his actual game is not happening in this short window.
    But that would at least be a start...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  26. #93
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    I am not reading this entire thread.

    But CJ Miles does not need to replace 11/12 Danny Granger. WE have Paul George exceeding that. We need CJ Miles to replace Paul George's offense from that season. Which is a spot up shooter and a player that makes you pay for poor rotations.

    What we may miss is Lance's defense from last year. Lance is a better complete defender than a consistent offensive player. We will miss the dribble penetration. But not the over dribbling. I won't say that Hill is as good as dribble penetrator, but his dribbling is less detrimental to the team than Lance's had on occasion to be. So I agree that the offense could be better with spacing throughout the season. And we will be more consistent. But we do not have the player in the half court who can break down a superior defense and make them pay 1 on 1 that Lance could. I do not think Hibbert will ever be the back to the bucket type player who garners double teams on a consistent basis.

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  28. #94
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    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I am not reading this entire thread.

    But CJ Miles does not need to replace 11/12 Danny Granger. WE have Paul George exceeding that. We need CJ Miles to replace Paul George's offense from that season. Which is a spot up shooter and a player that makes you pay for poor rotations.

    What we may miss is Lance's defense from last year. Lance is a better complete defender than a consistent offensive player. We will miss the dribble penetration. But not the over dribbling. I won't say that Hill is as good as dribble penetrator, but his dribbling is less detrimental to the team than Lance's had on occasion to be. So I agree that the offense could be better with spacing throughout the season. And we will be more consistent. But we do not have the player in the half court who can break down a superior defense and make them pay 1 on 1 that Lance could. I do not think Hibbert will ever be the back to the bucket type player who garners double teams on a consistent basis.
    Paul George was an all-star last year. CJ Miles isn't going to replace him unless we are talking 8th grade Paul George. Summer...

  29. #95

    Default Re: Lets talk about Roy Hibbert

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Paul George was an all-star last year. CJ Miles isn't going to replace him unless we are talking 8th grade Paul George. Summer...
    He said 11-12 Paul George, who averaged 12ish ppg. Which Miles is very easilu capable of doing, Miles averaged 10 ppg in 19 mpg last season.... Thats a very good Per 36 ratio.

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