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Thread: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

  1. #51
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    Seconded. I clearly missed something...?

    Actually, I missed a lot. My new avatar explains why!
    He agreed to go to Ft. Wayne to get playing time. He got playing time, but opined publicly that it wasn't enough and therefore he wasn't sure he'd agree to go back if asked to do so again.

    One side of the argument is that he felt it would be better to be practicing against the starters. The other side is that he felt he was too good to be playing in the D-League.

    If you believe the latter, you want him out of here. If you believe the former, meh.
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  3. #52

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I don't think Noah is better than Roy at all. Just people don't expect Noah to score much or at all on his own. So when he doesn't do anything no one is surprised. Roy on the other hand people expect to be decent offensively, so when he isn't it is a big deal, and people downgrade him even if he is still providing great defense on par or better than Noah. I don't consider a single stretch of terrible play as the end all be all of Roy Hibbert.
    I think this helps my point. Fairly equal stats from 2 players. 1 who is expected to produce, the other isn't expected to produce much. That doesn't say much for the guy that's expected to put up numbers.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Lol you seem to think damn near everyone on every other roster is better than anybody on the Pacers.
    I don't think that highly of our roster, that much is true. I think we're in for a 45-48 win year barring any further significant changes. So yes, I think the rosters of ~10-12 teams are better than ours. ~7-9 Western teams and ~3-5 eastern. We are a lot closer to mediocre right now than we are to great. I don't think we'd make the playoffs in the West as currently constructed.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    He agreed to go to Ft. Wayne to get playing time. He got playing time, but opined publicly that it wasn't enough and therefore he wasn't sure he'd agree to go back if asked to do so again.

    One side of the argument is that he felt it would be better to be practicing against the starters. The other side is that he felt he was too good to be playing in the D-League.

    If you believe the latter, you want him out of here. If you believe the former, meh.
    Seems like a bunch to do about nothing. For whatever reason he had a bad experience there, and would prefer to be with the team. While playing in the D-League would probably keep him more ready at a moments whim, I'm not convinced that it is better than being with the team. For some reason it seems like whenever we send players who were average at best scorers in college they go to the D-League and suddenly look like MJ or Chamberlain.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I think this helps my point. Fairly equal stats from 2 players. 1 who is expected to produce, the other isn't expected to produce much. That doesn't say much for the guy that's expected to put up numbers.
    My point is, expectations affect people's view of how good players are. Often in a way that is wrong. If your expectations for player A are too high suddenly you have a much worse opinion of player A than player B and you like player B better even if player A is still actually playing just as well or better than player B. If you want to analyze and judge players you need to be able look beyond your expectations, and see the players for what they are not how they compare to expectations. Roy having higher expectations is meaningless in how they compare to each other. If anything that says Roy is the better player, because he is good enough to get those higher expectations.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 07-23-2014 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    Seconded. I clearly missed something...?

    Actually, I missed a lot. My new avatar explains why!
    CONGRATS!!!

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Seems like a bunch to do about nothing. For whatever reason he had a bad experience there, and would prefer to be with the team. While playing in the D-League would probably keep him more ready at a moments whim, I'm not convinced that it is better than being with the team. For some reason it seems like whenever we send players who were average at best scorers in college they go to the D-League and suddenly look like MJ or Chamberlain.
    Because every D-league coach wants to get noticed for "improving" an NBA prospect, so they gameplan around them as if they were MJ or Wilt to inflate his stats.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    So let me get this straight...

    Instead of offering their 4th, 5th and 6th best players, the Bulls are offering their 4th best player and two rookies (assuming #6 and #7 on their projected depth chart)...and that is supposed to trump Andrew Wiggins? And this is considered their "all chips on the table" offer?



    Let's flip that on its side, if the Bulls offered that Package straight up for Wiggins, Bennett and a 2015 #1 pick, how quickly would LeBron's puppet hang up the phone?
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-23-2014 at 01:36 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I don't think that highly of our roster, that much is true. I think we're in for a 45-48 win year barring any further significant changes. So yes, I think the rosters of ~10-12 teams are better than ours. ~7-9 Western teams and ~3-5 eastern. We are a lot closer to mediocre right now than we are to great. I don't think we'd make the playoffs in the West as currently constructed.
    I can certainly appreciate your honesty. I seriously can.
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    Yeah, that's the problem. I don't think anyone on this board is as big of a jerk in person as they come across on here. Except maybe Nuntius. Dude is impossibly nice.
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    He is a saint, cdash. If a mosquito landed on his arm trying to bite him he would tell it " Go on son, do your thing".

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    My new avatar!
    Gratz man!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    Seconded. I clearly missed something...?

    Actually, I missed a lot. My new avatar explains why!
    Woohoo!! Awesome! Congrats! I'm guessing our starting back court in 22 years.

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  21. #62
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Just FYI Solomon Hill acknowledged this issue in this article on the star.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...ason/12110567/

    Solomon Hill spent most of the season's second half and playoffs on the bench. On most nights, he didn't even dress.

    Looking back, the Indiana Pacers' first-round pick in the 2013 draft wishes he would have been about two hours north in Fort Wayne, where he probably would have received substantial playing time for the Mad Ants, the Pacers' affiliate in the NBA Developmental League.

    "I should have just stayed down there," Hill said. "I had to learn that nothing revolves around me. If I don't play, and the team got the win, that's fine. There's always a next game. If I could do things differently, I would have stayed down there and licked my wounds. I let myself down and let the Pacers down as well."

    Hill now is playing for the Pacers summer league team for the second consecutive year. He's vowed he's learned from last season's experience.

    "The D-League is there for you to get experience and (getting sent there) is an experience in its own," he said. "It's not just all about playing or what you're doing on the court. There's going to be real-life situations and you have to deal with that. I adapted the wrong way."

    Statistically, Hill didn't play poorly in Fort Wayne. He averaged 17 points and 3.5 rebounds in two games in late December. Pacers coach Frank Vogel said at the time of Hill's return that, while it was important for Hill to get playing time, he didn't want him away from the parent NBA team for long.

    Hill never had the reputation of being a pouter. Pacers officials cited his maturity after a four-year collegiate career at Arizona as one of the reasons they drafted him. Media reports from Fort Wayne were generally positive about his attitude. Hill didn't publicly voice any disappointment in his role at the time and noted he agreed to the move after Pacers officials asked him to consider it.

    But he admitted this week he thought he should have been getting more playing time. He wasn't happy when he got just 26 minutes in his final game there, a 133-113 victory over Iowa on Jan. 1.

    "I just had to go down with no expectations and fit in instead of being somebody different," he said.

    Pacers assistant coach Dan Burke, who is coaching the summer league team, said Hill has shared similar sentiments with him and he wishes Hill would have spent more time in Fort Wayne. But Burke added he is seeing improvement in his play with the summer team this week.

    "It's part of your growth when you come into the league," Burke said. "You're top dog at your university. You come in here, you're the 13th or 14th player on the team. You get sent down to the D-League. Maybe there's some embarrassment."

    Opportunity may be knocking for Hill, too. No one is suggesting he's going to challenge All-Star forward Paul George for playing time. But with Lance Stephenson exploring the market as an unrestricted free agent and the uncertain return of some backup wing players such as Rasual Butler, he may have a chance to move up the depth chart and be more of a contributor.

    "I would like to see him be a Doberman on defense," Burke said when asked what he wants to see from Hill during summer league play in Orlando beginning Saturday.

    "In a lot of these summer leagues, guys think, 'This is my chance,' and they shoot every time they touch it. We don't want him to do that. We want him to be a leader and when you come (off screens), take good shots out of this system. Defend, run and get easy baskets."

    Hill said he will do what it takes after last season's experience. For instance, he's staying off social media more and getting better sleep recently, he said. He's also working with a shooting coach. His rookie season taught him the importance of staying sharp even when you're getting limited playing time, he said.

    "Just always be ready," he said. "You never know what can happen. (Chris Copeland) probably didn't see the minutes he thought he would, but when he was in, he was always ready. Same with Rasual. He understood what can happen when someone goes down."


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  23. #63
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    He agreed to go to Ft. Wayne to get playing time. He got playing time, but opined publicly that it wasn't enough and therefore he wasn't sure he'd agree to go back if asked to do so again.

    One side of the argument is that he felt it would be better to be practicing against the starters. The other side is that he felt he was too good to be playing in the D-League.

    If you believe the latter, you want him out of here. If you believe the former, meh.
    Ahhh. I knew he went up to the Fort. Didn't know about his subsequent comments. Thanks!

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    CONGRATS!!!


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    Gratz man!
    Thanks. And, in this case it's probably relevant to mention that it's wo-man. I hauled those two around in my very own body. Only for 7 months as it turns out, but still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Woohoo!! Awesome! Congrats! I'm guessing our starting back court in 22 years.
    Let's hope! My dad and his brothers were all great athletes (golden glove boxers, track and field/football/basketball all-state), including some pros (my uncle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Bright). So there's a teeny, teeny, teeeeeny, tiny chance that might be a sliver better than average. Gonna get a basketball in their hands as soon as they can grasp it and a soccer ball at their feet when they can stand on their own!
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    The bulls are offering Taj Gibson and others....is a deal centered around Roy really that much worse? Like Roy and Ghill

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg44 View Post
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    The bulls are offering Taj Gibson and others....is a deal centered around Roy really that much worse? Like Roy and Ghill
    Love would have to agree to sign an extension or he would be a one year rental. Not sure how he feels about Indiana, but he's kind of picky right now it seems, I could see him not wanting to come here.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I can certainly appreciate your honesty. I seriously can.
    I know I probably have a reputation on this board by now of a debbie downer or whatever phrase you want to use. Probably at least a few people think I come here for the sole purpose of antagonizing people and crapping on the Pacers. I don't really feel like that's the case. I really come here because I've loved the Pacers since I was 5, I desperately want to see them win a championship, and it's the best place I can talk to other Pacer fans. What's unfortunate is whether it's due to my desire to offer my honest opinions, my general sarcastic/cynical tone, or a combination of the above and just the general way I come across in text; I don't tend to find a ton of common ground with other fans here. You can love something and still recognize it's flaws...and finding and fixing flaws is how you become the best. That's my view at least. Our roster is flawed, a starting back court of Hill/Miles is flawed, relying on a guy who has proven to vanish for months of each year is flawed, letting young talent leave without compensation is flawed, and so on.

    47 wins and the playoffs doesn't suggest I'm saying we're terrible, but it does suggest we're not championship bound, and we have a lot of work to do if that's the goal...and for me, that's always the goal. It's the only goal. Other people have different goals, and that doesn't make them wrong or better or worse or anything, but for me, that's what this is about. Cheering for my team to become the best and take home the hardware.

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  29. #67
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I know I probably have a reputation on this board by now of a debbie downer or whatever phrase you want to use. Probably at least a few people think I come here for the sole purpose of antagonizing people and crapping on the Pacers. I don't really feel like that's the case. I really come here because I've loved the Pacers since I was 5, I desperately want to see them win a championship, and it's the best place I can talk to other Pacer fans. What's unfortunate is whether it's due to my desire to offer my honest opinions, my general sarcastic/cynical tone, or a combination of the above and just the general way I come across in text; I don't tend to find a ton of common ground with other fans here. You can love something and still recognize it's flaws...and finding and fixing flaws is how you become the best. That's my view at least. Our roster is flawed, a starting back court of Hill/Miles is flawed, relying on a guy who has proven to vanish for months of each year is flawed, letting young talent leave without compensation is flawed, and so on.

    47 wins and the playoffs doesn't suggest I'm saying we're terrible, but it does suggest we're not championship bound, and we have a lot of work to do if that's the goal...and for me, that's always the goal. It's the only goal. Other people have different goals, and that doesn't make them wrong or better or worse or anything, but for me, that's what this is about. Cheering for my team to become the best and take home the hardware.

    I think there are quite a few individuals that can have an over the top outlook of the team, either positive or negative--but there's a difference between that and being honest. Your point of view is a tad more pessimistic than others, but its honest analysis based on facts-- as opposed to personal vendettas. I appreciate posters like you and Taterhead who seem to know the game and can post their ideas and opinions without being foolish.

    I can see your point of view regarding our backcourt though I don't completely agree with it. I also have a belief that teams with great backcourts rarely compete for championships. Its typically a team with a backcourt that compliments a superstar wing, superstar big, or a combination of both. We have the emerging superstar wing. And though we dont have a superstar big, we have two former all stars who have come up big in playoff games in the past. People should remember are essentially attempting to follow the mid 2000 pistons model where we win as a team with defense, rebounding and riding the hot hand offensively.

    I agree we will take a step back in wins, but our style of play is tailormade for the playoffs - which is why we have been fairly successful. Teams that rely on the shooting anf scoring of their backcourt for the majority of their points struggle in the playoffs historically. There are certainly combinations that buck this trend but it's often the exception to the rule.

    For us to be successful we HAVE to have guys like Stuckey and Miles step up big time. There have been crazier things that have happened in this league IMO.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 07-24-2014 at 08:49 AM.

  30. #68

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Love would have to agree to sign an extension or he would be a one year rental. Not sure how he feels about Indiana, but he's kind of picky right now it seems, I could see him not wanting to come here.
    Sounds like his goal is to win. Playing next to PG automatically gives him that opportunity. Sounds like TWolves want to contend next year rather than plan for the future from some things I have read. Could Hill, West, Scola, Copeland possibly get Love and fillers here? Would leave us with a weak back court, but PG, Love, Roy would be the best front court in the NBA for a long time.

    Gives TWolves: Rubio, Hill, Martin, West, Pek with Scola and Copeland as key reserves.

  31. #69

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    No it can't.

  32. #70
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    If he comes to the Central then we're screwed.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
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    If he comes to the Central then we're screwed.
    If he goes to either Chicago or Cleveland, it will be tough on the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Head to Head last year:

    Noah - 7.5 ppg, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 blk - 2 wins
    Hibbert - 9.25 ppg, 9 reb, 1.25 ast, 3 blk - 2 wins

    I don't think Noah is THAT much better than Roy
    I think that Hibbert is more durable than Noah....but Noah is far more consistent, IMHO stronger and provides more energy than Hibbert.

    JMHO, but I'd take Noah over Hibbert as long as we have a somewhat decent backup Center.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDawg44 View Post
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    The bulls are offering Taj Gibson and others....is a deal centered around Roy really that much worse? Like Roy and Ghill
    Not like it would happen.....but between the 2 options that u suggest....I would take Taj and Butler over GH and Hibbert any day for financial and consistency reasons.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think that Hibbert is more durable than Noah....but Noah is far more consistent, IMHO stronger and provides more energy than Hibbert.

    JMHO, but I'd take Noah over Hibbert as long as we have a somewhat decent backup Center.
    I would agree for the most part. Hibbert has the higher highs and the lower lows whereas Noah is much more consistent. With that said, I think Hibbert will be able to sustain his level of play far longer than Noah who depends on his speed and athleticism.

    When both are playing at their best, I believe they are neck and neck. Noah just happens to be more consistent and therefore the better player.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    No way Bulls get Love for that if the Cavs are offering Wiggins. NO WAY.

    I would take a Golden State deal over that.

    If I were the Wolves I would take Wiggins/Bennet/Pick(s) and run with it. FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!
    It's obvious that the TWolves are waiting to see if the Warriors, Bulls and Cavs up their offer. They are in no rush to pull the trigger on any trade involving KLove. Maybe they make a decision right before training Camp?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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