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Thread: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

  1. #26

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Snell is an athletic two way player, not nearly the shooter Miles is but has the potential to be Jimmy Butler like on the defensive end. He's had a monster summer league but we can all agree and just say "yea but its the summer league". But he is a decent rebounder, physical defender and not a horrid shooter.

    Miles is a better shooter to be sure but I'm not sure he does everything else the way that Snell can.

    I like Hinrich, he is a physically tough player. However you are correct he is getting long in the tooth. But he is still a solid point guard who can run an offense better than Hill can IMO because of his ability to make entry passes better.

    However what I am saying is that even if I give you both of our players being a little better than theirs, I don't btw but let's pretend I do, then really is our unit so much better as to feel comfortable going into crunch time with either lineup?

    Personally I say no.
    See the problem is to me, look at how you just described Tony Snell, you know who else has been described that way? Solomon Hill. Develop a 3, can be physical, Vogel said can be elite defensively etc. So do you have that same faith in Solomon Hill? A lot of what you said was in theory of what Snell can be, but will he get there who knows? Miles will always be the better pure scorer just because of how good of a shooter is, and Miles is also a very good one-two dribble drive player. I don't see any evidence currently that Tony Snell will be a much better player than Solomon Hill, let alone C.J. Miles (and no summer league is not evidence ). I get what you're saying about Hinrich being better at post passes sure, but in no way shape or form is Hinrich a better player than George Hill, and it is not even close to be honest.


    Again as far as crunch time, yes I am fine with it. I will just point it out to you, I don't have any stats or anything and don't know where to look, but to me, and my eye test, George Hill has always exceeded in crunch time (besides free throws), and has hit multiple big shots for us.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    I would think that any trade for Love would include Noah, and probably Butler/Gibson, as well.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    See the problem is to me, look at how you just described Tony Snell, you know who else has been described that way? Solomon Hill. Develop a 3, can be physical, Vogel said can be elite defensively etc. So do you have that same faith in Solomon Hill? A lot of what you said was in theory of what Snell can be, but will he get there who knows? Miles will always be the better pure scorer just because of how good of a shooter is, and Miles is also a very good one-two dribble drive player. I don't see any evidence currently that Tony Snell will be a much better player than Solomon Hill, let alone C.J. Miles (and no summer league is not evidence ). I get what you're saying about Hinrich being better at post passes sure, but in no way shape or form is Hinrich a better player than George Hill, and it is not even close to be honest.


    Again as far as crunch time, yes I am fine with it. I will just point it out to you, I don't have any stats or anything and don't know where to look, but to me, and my eye test, George Hill has always exceeded in crunch time (besides free throws), and has hit multiple big shots for us.
    Man am I glad you mentioned the free throw shooting thing. Is there or has there ever been a player less clutch than George Hill when it comes to free throws at the end of a game?

    As to Solomon Hill? I am not high on him at all to be honest with you. I'll take Frank's word on it but I got a real sour taste in my mouth about him with the entire Ft. Wayne debacle. What I've seen of him has not really made me think any more of him than I did Orlando Johnson.

    Hope I'm wrong there.


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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    To be fair right now we are rolling with Hill & Miles at crunch time, is that really any better?
    If S. Hill is what Franks says he is on defense, maybe Paul George can move back to SG. Big maybe

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  7. #30

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Man am I glad you mentioned the free throw shooting thing. Is there or has there ever been a player less clutch than George Hill when it comes to free throws at the end of a game?

    As to Solomon Hill? I am not high on him at all to be honest with you. I'll take Frank's word on it but I got a real sour taste in my mouth about him with the entire Ft. Wayne debacle. What I've seen of him has not really made me think any more of him than I did Orlando Johnson.

    Hope I'm wrong there.
    I am just saying Tony Snell hasn't proved anything more than Solomon Hill, since Solo also had a very good D-league stent (18/5/4 I think? Or something similar). My just overall point is Hinrich/Snell isn't even close to Miles/Hill. Miles has proven to be a capable double digit scorer and deadly shooter who brings competent defense, what has Snell proved? Nothing. Hinrich like i said is a decent bench player, but he isn't even close to the caliber of player George Hill is right now.

  8. #31

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    I am just going to compare our roster with, I think for the most part, the "favorites" to win the east, or Chicago.

    As for starters:

    George Hill < Derrick Rose (Obviously Rose wins here, but he has to stay healthy, which who knows how likely that is.)

    C.J. Miles > Kirk Hinrich (I think Hinrich will start so Rose has a second ball handler so he doesn't have to create everything, but Hinrich is on the decline and shot less than 40% from the field last season, while Miles is a dead-eye shooter and capable defender)

    Paul George > Jimmy Butler (Butler is a very, very good defender, but clearly he is no PG)

    David West >/= Taj Gibson (I think they are pretty even here, Gibson had a very good season last year, but West has always been solid and very good in crunch time, so I gave him the slight slight edge, though since they are so close, I think they are closer to even which is what >/= means)

    Roy Hibbert < Joakim Noah (Noah takes this one as well, though it depends on how big the gap is between these 2 centers on if we get All-star Hibbert or the bad Hibbert)

    So I think the starters are overall pretty even, lets move onto the benches:

    C.J. Watson = Aaron Brooks (Brooks may be a better pure scorer, but Watson is better in other areas)

    Rodney Stuckey > Tony Snell (Snell was underwhelming last season, and Stuckey has proven he can put the ball in the hoop and create shots)

    Solomon Hill - Doug McDermott (Not enough known about these two players to actually make a decision, is Solo as good defensively as Vogel says, and is his 3 pt shot improved after working with a shooting coach? Who knows, can McDermott translate his college game to the pros? Once again who knows, so no decision here)

    Luis Scola > Nikola Mirotic (This is my upset pick, most Euro players struggle at first when coming to the NBA to play, and i expect the same from Mirotic, and remember how good Scola was until he suffered that elbow injury last season? Well if he is healthy, we should expect more good bench play from Scola.)

    Ian Mahinmi < Pau Gasol (Obviously Gasol wins here, who is clearly the best back-up center in the league, though he struggled last season, he is still a very good player, and a very solid pick-up for the Bulls)



    I think we are actually very close in terms of overall talent. Obviously the games aren't played this way, this is just something i did for fun.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I am just going to compare our roster with, I think for the most part, the "favorites" to win the east, or Chicago.

    As for starters:

    George Hill < Derrick Rose (Obviously Rose wins here, but he has to stay healthy, which who knows how likely that is.)

    C.J. Miles > Kirk Hinrich (I think Hinrich will start so Rose has a second ball handler so he doesn't have to create everything, but Hinrich is on the decline and shot less than 40% from the field last season, while Miles is a dead-eye shooter and capable defender)

    Paul George > Jimmy Butler (Butler is a very, very good defender, but clearly he is no PG)

    David West >/= Taj Gibson (I think they are pretty even here, Gibson had a very good season last year, but West has always been solid and very good in crunch time, so I gave him the slight slight edge, though since they are so close, I think they are closer to even which is what >/= means)

    Roy Hibbert < Joakim Noah (Noah takes this one as well, though it depends on how big the gap is between these 2 centers on if we get All-star Hibbert or the bad Hibbert)

    So I think the starters are overall pretty even, lets move onto the benches:

    C.J. Watson = Aaron Brooks (Brooks may be a better pure scorer, but Watson is better in other areas)

    Rodney Stuckey > Tony Snell (Snell was underwhelming last season, and Stuckey has proven he can put the ball in the hoop and create shots)

    Solomon Hill - Doug McDermott (Not enough known about these two players to actually make a decision, is Solo as good defensively as Vogel says, and is his 3 pt shot improved after working with a shooting coach? Who knows, can McDermott translate his college game to the pros? Once again who knows, so no decision here)

    Luis Scola > Nikola Mirotic (This is my upset pick, most Euro players struggle at first when coming to the NBA to play, and i expect the same from Mirotic, and remember how good Scola was until he suffered that elbow injury last season? Well if he is healthy, we should expect more good bench play from Scola.)

    Ian Mahinmi < Pau Gasol (Obviously Gasol wins here, who is clearly the best back-up center in the league, though he struggled last season, he is still a very good player, and a very solid pick-up for the Bulls)



    I think we are actually very close in terms of overall talent. Obviously the games aren't played this way, this is just something i did for fun.
    I HOPE you are right with your predictions, but I think you are comparing players with blue and gold glasses on.

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  11. #33
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Doesn't this just signal that the Wiggins to Minny talks have stalled and whoever has an interest is putting Love's name out there for news/rumors/farts?

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Man am I glad you mentioned the free throw shooting thing. Is there or has there ever been a player less clutch than George Hill when it comes to free throws at the end of a game?

    As to Solomon Hill? I am not high on him at all to be honest with you. I'll take Frank's word on it but I got a real sour taste in my mouth about him with the entire Ft. Wayne debacle. What I've seen of him has not really made me think any more of him than I did Orlando Johnson.

    Hope I'm wrong there.
    I hear you with Solo and the Ft Wayne situation. I do however have faith that he can be a really slid player. Granted he has played limited time, but that last Orlando game showed me he can be a terrific defender. If he ever develops some range we could have a really good player on our hands.

  13. #35

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I HOPE you are right with your predictions, but I think you are comparing players with blue and gold glasses on.
    Well I am a Pacers fan so I probably am , but which predictions seem biased to you?

  14. #36
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    What happened in fort Wayne?

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Well I am a Pacers fan so I probably am , but which predictions seem biased to you?
    Well, their are certainly degrees to which one player is better than another. For example, lets pretend CJ Miles> Kirk Hinrich (I am certainly not sure this is true, but work with me) then a healthy Derrick Rose>>>>>>>>George Hill. Joakim Noah>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy Hibbert, PG>>>>>>>>Butler.

    A lot of the matchups are tossups too. I am not sure we have an advantage in a Hinrich/Miles matchup or a Stuckey/Snell matchup. Also, Scola is not good for what he is used for here and Mirotic was the best big in Europe. I find it tough to believe we win that matchup. I think in paper Chicago is better, but Gasol is old and Rose is hurt, so who knows.

  17. #38

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Well, their are certainly degrees to which one player is better than another. For example, lets pretend CJ Miles> Kirk Hinrich (I am certainly not sure this is true, but work with me) then a healthy Derrick Rose>>>>>>>>George Hill. Joakim Noah>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy Hibbert, PG>>>>>>>>Butler.

    A lot of the matchups are tossups too. I am not sure we have an advantage in a Hinrich/Miles matchup or a Stuckey/Snell matchup. Also, Scola is not good for what he is used for here and Mirotic was the best big in Europe. I find it tough to believe we win that matchup. I think in paper Chicago is better, but Gasol is old and Rose is hurt, so who knows.
    I think we certainly win the Miles-Hinrich match-up, Hinrich is just a flat out liability on offense, he can't shoot the 3 ball great (35%), and he really offers nothing in terms of 2 pt shooting (he shot 39% from the field last year), he can handle the ball, but thats about all he can do, and he isn't great on defense. Miles is a better offensive player and I think we all can agree to that, and Hinrich is not some star defensively. Hinrich has Miles beat in ball handling (well considering he is naturally a point guard he should) and passing, but i'll take Miles in every other area.

    I also don't agree Noah is that much better than Hibbert. The second half of this past season? Yes he was, but I don't think that will be the case this season. Stephenson is gone, who basically played the anti-Hibbert style of play, so I expect Hibbert to give us the 12/8 on 46% shooting and great defense. I thought Noah was overrated a bit last season as well, look Noah is a very good player, but he isn't some star offensively, he can pass well for a big, but he isn't a great scorer overall.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 07-22-2014 at 07:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    I think Pau Gasol and Taj Gibson are both better than West. I'd also take Mirotic over Scola. I think it's very clear they have the superior roster if Rose is even 70% of his former self, and it's arguable even without him.

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  20. #40

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I think Pau Gasol and Taj Gibson are both better than West. I'd also take Mirotic over Scola. I think it's very clear they have the superior roster if Rose is even 70% of his former self, and it's arguable even without him.
    Put D-West on a team where he is the #1 option and he will put up 17.5 ppg too, I can see an argument for Gibson though. Which is why I said they are very close.

    As for the bolded part, no its not.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    Doesn't this just signal that the Wiggins to Minny talks have stalled and whoever has an interest is putting Love's name out there for news/rumors/farts?
    Could be, or it could be they need to sign him first to get salaries balanced. If he is traded before he signs, then they are only trading his rights, not a salary amount.

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  23. #42

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I am just going to compare our roster with, I think for the most part, the "favorites" to win the east, or Chicago.

    As for starters:

    George Hill < Derrick Rose (Obviously Rose wins here, but he has to stay healthy, which who knows how likely that is.)

    C.J. Miles > Kirk Hinrich (I think Hinrich will start so Rose has a second ball handler so he doesn't have to create everything, but Hinrich is on the decline and shot less than 40% from the field last season, while Miles is a dead-eye shooter and capable defender)

    Paul George > Jimmy Butler (Butler is a very, very good defender, but clearly he is no PG)

    David West >/= Taj Gibson (I think they are pretty even here, Gibson had a very good season last year, but West has always been solid and very good in crunch time, so I gave him the slight slight edge, though since they are so close, I think they are closer to even which is what >/= means)

    Roy Hibbert < Joakim Noah (Noah takes this one as well, though it depends on how big the gap is between these 2 centers on if we get All-star Hibbert or the bad Hibbert)

    So I think the starters are overall pretty even, lets move onto the benches:

    C.J. Watson = Aaron Brooks (Brooks may be a better pure scorer, but Watson is better in other areas)

    Rodney Stuckey > Tony Snell (Snell was underwhelming last season, and Stuckey has proven he can put the ball in the hoop and create shots)

    Solomon Hill - Doug McDermott (Not enough known about these two players to actually make a decision, is Solo as good defensively as Vogel says, and is his 3 pt shot improved after working with a shooting coach? Who knows, can McDermott translate his college game to the pros? Once again who knows, so no decision here)

    Luis Scola > Nikola Mirotic (This is my upset pick, most Euro players struggle at first when coming to the NBA to play, and i expect the same from Mirotic, and remember how good Scola was until he suffered that elbow injury last season? Well if he is healthy, we should expect more good bench play from Scola.)

    Ian Mahinmi < Pau Gasol (Obviously Gasol wins here, who is clearly the best back-up center in the league, though he struggled last season, he is still a very good player, and a very solid pick-up for the Bulls)



    I think we are actually very close in terms of overall talent. Obviously the games aren't played this way, this is just something i did for fun.
    Oops, just realized I forgot Mike Dunleavy, ok replace Tony Snell with Dunleavy. I think the decision is the same for me, I would take Rodney Stuckey over Dunleavy.

  24. #43

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    A very good player that's started 13 games over the last 3 seasons because he couldn't beat out the legendary Carlos Boozer....

    Couldn't beat Boozer out or the Bulls couldn't justify having Boozer come off the bench with his salary?

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I think Pau Gasol and Taj Gibson are both better than West. I'd also take Mirotic over Scola. I think it's very clear they have the superior roster if Rose is even 70% of his former self, and it's arguable even without him.
    Lol you seem to think damn near everyone on every other roster is better than anybody on the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Well, their are certainly degrees to which one player is better than another. For example, lets pretend CJ Miles> Kirk Hinrich (I am certainly not sure this is true, but work with me) then a healthy Derrick Rose>>>>>>>>George Hill. Joakim Noah>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy Hibbert, PG>>>>>>>>Butler.
    .
    Head to Head last year:

    Noah - 7.5 ppg, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 blk - 2 wins
    Hibbert - 9.25 ppg, 9 reb, 1.25 ast, 3 blk - 2 wins

    I don't think Noah is THAT much better than Roy

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    No way Bulls get Love for that if the Cavs are offering Wiggins. NO WAY.

    I would take a Golden State deal over that.

    If I were the Wolves I would take Wiggins/Bennet/Pick(s) and run with it. FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!

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  31. #47

    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Head to Head last year:

    Noah - 7.5 ppg, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 blk - 2 wins
    Hibbert - 9.25 ppg, 9 reb, 1.25 ast, 3 blk - 2 wins

    I don't think Noah is THAT much better than Roy
    You forgot the EEAIOTG* stat:

    Noah: EEAIOTG - Huge.
    Roy: EEAIOTG - Insignificant.


    EEAIOTG = Energy, Effort and Impact on the Game.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    No way Bulls get Love for that if the Cavs are offering Wiggins. NO WAY.

    I would take a Golden State deal over that.

    If I were the Wolves I would take Wiggins/Bennet/Pick(s) and run with it. FAR AWAY!!!!!!!!
    I agree, I don't see the Bulls reported offer even that good. If they are entertaining Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler, the Pacers ought to put an offer on the table. I like both of those Bulls, but I don't see either of them better than pretty good to good starters', imo.

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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    What happened in fort Wayne?
    Seconded. I clearly missed something...?

    Actually, I missed a lot. My new avatar explains why!
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    Default Re: Bulls Making A Push For Kevin Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Head to Head last year:

    Noah - 7.5 ppg, 9 reb, 6 ast, 1 blk - 2 wins
    Hibbert - 9.25 ppg, 9 reb, 1.25 ast, 3 blk - 2 wins

    I don't think Noah is THAT much better than Roy
    I don't think Noah is better than Roy at all. Just people don't expect Noah to score much or at all on his own. So when he doesn't do anything no one is surprised. Roy on the other hand people expect to be decent offensively, so when he isn't it is a big deal, and people downgrade him even if he is still providing great defense on par or better than Noah. I don't consider a single stretch of terrible play as the end all be all of Roy Hibbert.

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