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Thread: Noncompete agreements

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    Default Noncompete agreements

    Anyone experienced with non-compete agreements? Especially when you are being asked (required) to sign on after 11 years on the job?

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Anyone experienced with non-compete agreements? Especially when you are being asked (required) to sign on after 11 years on the job?
    Do you mean noncompete agreements in the sense that you have to pledge to not work for a competitor company (that could theoretically offer you more money)?

    I have nothing good to say about them, they're the epitome of crony capitalism and I think they're illegal in California. My Dad had to sign one for his job and he had a miserable time finding something else when he was trying to leave (although it did eventually work out for him).

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    I've dealt with them several times (you see them a lot in the IT field), to be honest, in most cases, they generally are not worth the paper they are written on. And depending on how broad the NCA is, it may not hold up in court: http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x...pete+Agreement
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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Anyone experienced with non-compete agreements? Especially when you are being asked (required) to sign on after 11 years on the job?
    How long do they want to restrict you for?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    How long do they want to restrict you for?
    1 year after voluntary or involuntary termination, the restrictive covenants are so vague and ambiguous it is quite silly and unfair. I could not work in the overall industry in 40 states for that year.

    I'm trying to negotiate specifics but they aren't very willing to do so.

    May have to involve an attorney on this one.

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Call a lawyer tomorrow. There's NO WAY in Hell that preventing you from working in the industry in 40 states would hold up in court.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I've dealt with them several times (you see them a lot in the IT field), to be honest, in most cases, they generally are not worth the paper they are written on. And depending on how broad the NCA is, it may not hold up in court: http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x...pete+Agreement
    They need to scrap the entire process. Legally, it's really hard to tell someone they *can't* take a job.

    The essence of the entire thing is they don't want you disclosing confidential information... as long as you use common sense, everyone will be alright.

    No one adheres to these things. I know hundreds of ex-co-workers who have moved on to not only companies in their field, but many go to direct competitors.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    I dealt with one YEARS ago that ended up amounting to absolutely nothing.

    Quit company A, they found out I was going to work for company B. Was met at the office of company B by a deputy with papers on Monday morning. A few phone calls between A & B lawyers took care of things.

    Still a pain in the glutes though. Maybe they can force you to sign it, but it won't mean much after that.

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Well, the Devil is in the details. What does it say will happen if you breach the agreement? I don't think the 40 states is necessarily relevant as an escape clause for you if it's a national company or a company with a presence in several states. Now, if they were an Indpls only company doing business primarily in central Indiana with no reach or real plans to expand beyond that then it might be a point worth fighting or a point they wouldn't win in court if you had a good lawyer. But you don't really want to find yourself in court in the first place.

    The contract can't just say you won't go to work with a competing company "or else". It has to spell out what that 'else' means. And if it says if you quit and go to work with a competing company you pay 100,000.00 (or whatever), plus any damages, plus legal fees then that is pretty clear and it would take some work (and maybe luck) to get a judge to side with you. Plus the trouble and expense of fighting it in the first place.

    Seek legal advice is my advice... Don't assume!!!

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    I'm not a lawyer, but any competent judge would look at that 40 state restriction and rule in favor in Stryker. That's simply not a reasonable NCA. Hell, I'm not sure your example of having to pay a $100k to work at company B would hold up in court.

    And if they involuntary terminate you, I don't think a NCA has ANY real weight period.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I'm not a lawyer, but any competent judge would look at that 40 state restriction and rule in favor in Stryker. That's simply not a reasonable NCA. Hell, I'm not sure your example of having to pay a $100k to work at company B would hold up in court.

    And if they involuntary terminate you, I don't think a NCA has ANY real weight period.
    I don't think it would actually be 100,000.00 that would be written in the contract (I just threw out a number) but if that is what the agreement said and you signed it, you are more likely than not going to owe 100,000.00 if you break the agreement.

    And as I said, the 40 state thing would totally be relevant to a national company with a presence in 40 states or more. So again, you're stuck fighting a clause that you agreed to if the company wants to hold you to it.

    I also thought about the termination clause and whether that would really be relevant. Depending on how well the agreement is written, of course it would be relevant. They wouldn't want you being able to slack off, miss work, miss deadlines, etc. all in a ploy to get fired so you can accept a standing offer with a competing company. You might have an argument if there were layoffs and you were casualty of a layoff and looking for new work, but if you did anything to cause your firing then you're going to have a tough row to hoe to try and use that as a release from the agreement. But even then, this could be written into the contract to tie your hands and cover their bases. If the wording is plain to see then your arguing the point just got harder.

    Like I said, the Devil is in the details on something like this. If they tie up the loose ends then you're pretty much screwed. Unless there is a case or state law that negates a NCA out of the gate then the terms of the contract will hold the day in court. No matter how unreasonable they might sound. And if the employer is willing to take you to court for breaching the agreement (which is probably the real question here) then you'd really have a tough row to hoe if you want to challenge the agreement on being overly broad or signed under duress or some other challenge of the sort. There is no guarantee that you'll win... and some judges will be less sympathetic than others to your argument... and the words on the paper will matter as to how they relate to the law. You and me might think the 40 state clause is over the top, but if you signed the agreement, you signed the agreement.

    You can always say "Well, let them sue me" and gamble they won't.... But what if they do? Is the new job going to be worth the legal costs or trying to fight a contract that you signed? Let alone paying damages and attorney fees?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    Never had one like that come up. My non-compete agreement for where I work just says no "moonlighting" with similar businesses.

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    Default Re: Noncompete agreements

    I had to sign one under duress at my current job. Was given a 7 day notice to sign it or I would no longer be employed. I talked it over with the owners of the company and got assurance that it was only for the purposes of sharing confidential information. Which apparently a former employee was doing. It was a very stressful week in the company, and we lost several employees over the whole thing.

    There isn't really a judge in the country who would hold these up in the case of just leaving your job for a competitor. So i wasn't scared to sign it anyways. You'd have to leave your current job on really bad terms that indicates that you had nefarious motives for seeking out employment with another company.
    Judges are not in the business of denying you employment in your area of expertise. Pretty much every NCA is not able to be upheld in court unless you seriously damaged your company in tangible means by sharing information.
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