# Thread: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

1. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Well, in my view if you are a C you definitely are not a starter quality player, and Hill is definitely a starting quality player.

As well, usually grading on a curve is used to increase people's grades, not decrease their grade. So if you are discretely a B, once you add the curve the lowest you can be is a B.

3. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

I give subjectively grading players an F.

5. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Since86
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I'm trying to figure out why letter grades are dependent on the total number of players being ranked, and how many are below or above the player you're trying to give a letter grade to. That's not how letter grades work.

If you have 10 PGs you're trying to rank, and say hypothetically all of them are good, you don't rank the top one an A and the last one a F.
With NBA players, you almost have to give everyone an A, if you grade on basketball ability. Everyone in the league can play.

But if you are attempting to describe the best players by using a letter system, there will be differences between their games that allow you to say one player is the best player, he gets an A and one player is the worst player, he gets a F. In an absolute sense, of course, both players are A players.

JMO, but our attempts to assign letter grades are basically worthless. Since our viewpoints are subjective. If you hate GHill, he gets a low grade. If you like him, he get a higher grade. The same with pretty much everyone except Paul. Even the dumbest of us can tell that he can play.

To answer your first question last, the number of players being evaluated determines the number of A's, B's etc you will get. If you are rating only starters, there are about 15 or so A players in the league. If you are rating the entire league, there are about 50 or so.

7. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by TinManJoshua
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This is definitely you saying George Hill sucks really bad. I don't like your back-peddling trying to shame someone out of a perfectly good rebuttal.
Obvious hypothetical to explain a point, not actually talking about any of our personnel. Could and if are key words to indicate depiction of a scenario. I'm not back pedaling at all. I'm very clearly not talking about our roster when I make this statement, I mean come on, you think we have the best 3-4-5 in the league?

8. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

For the record, I'd grade GHill as a "B-/C+." I think a focused/aggressive GHill would be a solid "B."

10. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Since86
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I'm trying to figure out why letter grades are dependent on the total number of players being ranked, and how many are below or above the player you're trying to give a letter grade to. That's not how letter grades work.

If you have 10 PGs you're trying to rank, and say hypothetically all of them are good, you don't rank the top one an A and the last one a F.
That is a very small sample size, but if you are rating them in order to compare them to each other you absolutely do. I really enjoy Dominoes pizza, but if I am asked to grade it against Giordano's, Uno and some other outstanding establishments Domnioes would get an F. I enjoy it, but compared to what I am grading it against that is an appropriate grade.

11. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by PacersHomer
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I give subjectively grading players an F.
Don't we evaluate players every day on this forum? What is the difference in attaching a grade to it? I give your post an F.

13. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by joew8302
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That is a very small sample size, but if you are rating them in order to compare them to each other you absolutely do. I really enjoy Dominoes pizza, but if I am asked to grade it against Giordano's, Uno and some other outstanding establishments Domnioes would get an F. I enjoy it, but compared to what I am grading it against that is an appropriate grade.
But using what you'd said with regards to players, you'd have to rank 10% of all pizza places as A's, 10% of all pizza places B's, etc. Using one place as your standard as an "a" and then evaluating each individual place thereafter from that standard, has nothing to do with how many overall pizza places there are. But it's neither here nor there.

15. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts
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Does it matter if he is 20th if the other 20 players are all very good players? When George Hill didn't take a backseat to Lance he averaged 14.2 ppg and 4.7 apg on 45% shooting, calling Hill a bad player is comical
I think that he simply doesn't understand that we're in the golden era of PGs. It's a fact that we are in an era in which the majority of the talent is concentrated in the PG position. In fact, I'd say that there are more starting level quality players playing the PG spot than teams in the league.

That's also why I don't think that a PG can lead his team to a title on his own in this current era. That's why a player as great as Chris Paul cannot really reach the likes of LeBron and Durant. Chris Paul is guarded and has to guard another great PG night in and night out. LeBron and Durant don't have to do that. There aren't as many great SFs as there are PGs.

That's why it makes a lot more sense for a team to have a star SF, PF or C at the moment. That way their stars are not going to be constantly faced with good match-ups and they get to trounce on weaker competition a lot more often.

16. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Dece
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Your obvious trolling is pretty fun. I have never said he sucks or is bad. I have said he is about the 20th best at his position, which is below average. You are the one turning it up with the inflammatory language, putting words in my mouth. I've stated my position very clearly. Mods should warn you for this nonsense.

Originally Posted by Dece
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You could have the best 3-4-5 tandem in the league, but if your 1-2 suck really bad and can't get them the ball, you are in trouble.
Yeah, you kinda said that he sucks.

18. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by dal9
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Well it matters to the extent we are competing against those other 20 players and teams? We're not watching George Hill put on a ****ing solo dribbling demonstration
And that's exactly why we can beat those other 20 teams. Those teams have a better PG than us but in order to do so they have sacrificed their other positions. For example, the Clippers have Chris Paul at the PG spot who is one of the best PGs in the game.

How did our games against the Clippers went? We beat them both times. Why did we beat them both times even though their PG is so much better than ours? Because the WHOLE team matters!

For an example, here is our first game against the Clippers -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/...312010LAC.html

Chris Paul outplayed George Hill and Jamal Crawford scored more than Lance (Lance had a significant advantage in rebounds and assists, though, and that's why I don't think that Jamal outplayed him) but it didn't really matter. Why didn't it matter?

It didn't matter because David West outplayed Blake Griffin. It didn't matter because Roy Hibbert outplayed DeAndre Jordan. It didn't matter because Paul George played better than anyone else on the court that night.

Basketball isn't an one-man game. It's a team game. That's how our team was able to win so many games at the start of the season. It's because they played as a team and every player did his part. Unfortunately, they lost that attribute down the road and it caused our collapse.

20. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Nuntius
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Yeah, you kinda said that he sucks.
Your inability to grasp higher level English due to it being not your primary language makes sense, but as I explained that was an obvious hypothetical scenario to explain a concept and not a depiction of our current personnel. Clearly I don't believe we have the best 3-4-5 in basketball and clearly I don't think George Hill sucks, I've said a hundred times on this board that he's a better 2 than a 1, and a likely sixth man of the year candidate in the best case scenario. Either read it all or none at all, you're better than this cherry picking, or I'd like to think so.

21. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Dece
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Your inability to grasp higher level English due to it being not your primary language makes sense, but as I explained that was an obvious hypothetical scenario to explain a concept and not a depiction of our current personnel.
Let's not go down this road. Making such a remark is disrespecting to others and would be the confirmation of the same stigma some place on Americans. Just because your country is bigger, it does not make you better or smarter. Some Americans might not grasp the language to the same extent as some people from different countries do..

23. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Nothing to do with bigger, better, or smarter or nationalism in anyway. The words, "could," and, "if," are contextual based words that direct the reader to the understanding that we are now talking about a hypothetical situation. It's not simple straight forward English, it's a higher order concept that first language English speakers should grasp very easily. Non-native speakers are less likely to pick up on such contextual clues, the same way that I speak Spanish, but obviously not nearly as well as a Spaniard, and due to that I can easily miss contextual clues that are obvious to them.

24. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Dece
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Nothing to do with bigger, better, or smarter or nationalism in anyway. The words, "could," and, "if," are contextual based words that direct the reader to the understanding that we are now talking about a hypothetical situation. It's not simple straight forward English, it's a higher order concept that first language English speakers should grasp very easily. Non-native speakers are less likely to pick up on such contextual clues, the same way that I speak Spanish, but obviously not nearly as well as a Spaniard, and due to that I can easily miss contextual clues that are obvious to them.

Disclosure: I'm a native English speaker as well as a licensed attorney...

26. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

My client could have done the crime, and if he did then this evidence should exist... could and if, it's not that complicated, it clearly indicates a hypothetical, the lawyer saying that phrase isn't saying his client is guilty. I'm not sure how you could miss this or think it's a reach. Anyway, this is PD not let's teach Pacer fans English, if people want to believe I think George Hill sucks, so be it. I think he's a below average starting point guard, a solid 2 guard and a likely 6th man of the year. I've said so a hundred places. Still leaves us with below average ball handling.

27. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Okay, enough of the grammar lessons and discussion. Either back on topic or these posts will be removed.

29. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Dece
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Your inability to grasp higher level English due to it being not your primary language makes sense, but as I explained that was an obvious hypothetical scenario to explain a concept and not a depiction of our current personnel. Clearly I don't believe we have the best 3-4-5 in basketball and clearly I don't think George Hill sucks, I've said a hundred times on this board that he's a better 2 than a 1, and a likely sixth man of the year candidate in the best case scenario. Either read it all or none at all, you're better than this cherry picking, or I'd like to think so.
I'll start by saying that it's true that the words "could" and "if" are commonly used in conjuction when describing a hypothetical scenario (although, both of them can be used to express something different like probability). However, the issue here is that the scenario that you're describing isn't as far-fetched as you seem to think.

Our frontcourt has been widely praised as one of the league's best ever since David West came here and Paul George developed into the player he is now. One can easily claim that we have the best 3-4-5 tandem in basketball. In fact, here's an article by Dime Magazine that claims that the Pacers truly have the best 3-4-5 tandem in basketball -> http://dimemag.com/2013/12/nbas-10-best-frontcourts/5/

When you are describing a scenario that is close to reality you should do a better job at clarifying that you are talking hypothetically. If you don't clarify your position from the get-go then it's possible that your words are going to be misinterpreted like it happened in this case.

You did a great job at clarifying your position in the post that I'm currently quoting. If you did the same in your initial post then this argument would never happen.

30. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Peck
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Okay, enough of the grammar lessons and discussion. Either back on topic or these posts will be removed.

eye two hoaped thatt itt woodn't goa doawn thiz rhode thiz bored iz beddar thain thiz

31. ## Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

Originally Posted by Natston
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eye two hoaped thatt itt woodn't goa doawn thiz rhode thiz bored iz beddar thain thiz
tru dat

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