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Thread: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

  1. #301
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Edit: Guys like Tony Allen, Danny Green, Patrick Beverly, Avery Bradley, Kirk Hinrich, etc look good...
    Guys like that look good because they play next to Harden, Conley, Parker, Rondo, and Derek Rose... you know, top 20 in the NBA guards. Our best guard doesn't belong in the same sentence as any of them.

  2. #302

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Paul George- A
    Roy Hibbert- A- to B-
    David West- B
    George Hill- B- to B+
    CJ Miles- C
    PG-A
    West B
    Hill B-
    Roy - C (if you like you can average an A and a F but most recently he was closer to an F)

  3. #303

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    PG-A
    West B
    Hill B-
    Roy - C (if you like you can average an A and a F but most recently he was closer to an F)
    Roy can't really be an F though, offensively yes, but he plays great defense.

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  5. #304

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Guys like that look good because they play next to Harden, Conley, Parker, Rondo, and Derek Rose... you know, top 20 in the NBA guards. Our best guard doesn't belong in the same sentence as any of them.
    Does it matter if Hill is for sure top 20 when the other 20 players are all also really good players?

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  7. #305
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Does it matter if Hill is for sure top 20 when the other 20 players are all also really good players?
    It does matter because someone has to handle the ball. You could have the best 3-4-5 tandem in the league, but if your 1-2 suck really bad and can't get them the ball, you are in trouble. Ball handling and passing are always relevant. You need someone with above average handling/passing, and currently no one on our roster can claim that.

  8. #306

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    It does matter because someone has to handle the ball. You could have the best 3-4-5 tandem in the league, but if your 1-2 suck really bad and can't get them the ball, you are in trouble. Ball handling and passing are always relevant. You need someone with above average handling/passing, and currently no one on our roster can claim that.
    Are you saying George Hill sucks really bad? Seriously?

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  10. #307
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Are you saying George Hill sucks really bad? Seriously?
    He's ~20th best point guard in the league. There aren't 40 teams. He is a below average point guard, by definition. CJ Miles is significantly worse than that. We have zero players who are above average ball handlers or passers. I'm not sure why you take such exception to this rather obvious fact.

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  12. #308

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    He's ~20th best point guard in the league. There aren't 40 teams. He is a below average point guard, by definition. CJ Miles is significantly worse than that. We have zero players who are above average ball handlers or passers. I'm not sure why you take such exception to this rather obvious fact.
    Does it matter if he is 20th if the other 20 players are all very good players? When George Hill didn't take a backseat to Lance he averaged 14.2 ppg and 4.7 apg on 45% shooting, calling Hill a bad player is comical

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  14. #309
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    We have zero players who are above average ball handlers or passers.
    Rodney Stuckey...he's the next Chauncey Billips.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Does it matter if he is 20th if the other 20 players are all very good players? When George Hill didn't take a backseat to Lance he averaged 14.2 ppg and 4.7 apg on 45% shooting, calling Hill a bad player is comical
    Your obvious trolling is pretty fun. I have never said he sucks or is bad. I have said he is about the 20th best at his position, which is below average. You are the one turning it up with the inflammatory language, putting words in my mouth. I've stated my position very clearly. Mods should warn you for this nonsense.

  16. #311

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    Rodney Stuckey...he's the next Chauncey Billips.
    Stuckey actually drew some D-Wade comparisons in the draft. :P

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  18. #312

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Based on positions compared to other players in the league.

    PG: George Hill - Grade: D

    SG: CJ Miles or Stuckey - Grade: D

    SF: Paul George - Grade: A

    PF: David West - Grade: B-

    C: Roy Hibbert - Grade: C

    We went from one of the best starting lineups to just above average.

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  20. #313

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Your obvious trolling is pretty fun. I have never said he sucks or is bad. I have said he is about the 20th best at his position, which is below average. You are the one turning it up with the inflammatory language, putting words in my mouth. I've stated my position very clearly. Mods should warn you for this nonsense.
    warn me for what...? Was he ranked 20th 2 years ago at his position? I will say I am sorry for taking you saying below average and saying sucks by the way.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 07-22-2014 at 10:55 PM.

  21. #314

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    Based on positions compared to other players in the league.

    PG: George Hill - Grade: D

    SG: CJ Miles or Stuckey - Grade: D

    SF: Paul George - Grade: A

    PF: David West - Grade: B-

    C: Roy Hibbert - Grade: C

    We went from one of the best starting lineups to just above average.
    So we had one of the best starting line-ups, lose one player who had ONE GOOD SEASON, and now we are barely above average?

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  23. #315
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    warn me for what...? Was he ranked 20th 2 years ago at his position? I will say I am sorry for taking you saying below average and saying sucks by the way.
    Here is how argument/debate works.

    A: Statement
    B: Refutation of statement and/or counter statement.
    A: Further explanation of original statement or refutation of counter statement

    Here is our exchange

    Me: We have below average ball handling
    You: OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID GEORGE HILL SUCKS!
    Me: That's not what I said, I said he's below average and not a great ball handler
    You: OMG OMG OMG NOTHING OF VALUE

    You still need to go back to turn two and state why you think I'm wrong about us having below average ball handling. Anything else is nothing but zero value flame bait, and you repeatedly use excessively inflammatory words. You aren't debating, you are trolling.

  24. #316
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Does it matter if he is 20th if the other 20 players are all very good players?
    Well it matters to the extent we are competing against those other 20 players and teams? We're not watching George Hill put on a ****ing solo dribbling demonstration

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  26. #317
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Lance slapped his daddy Bird in the face.

  27. #318

    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Here is how argument/debate works.

    A: Statement
    B: Refutation of statement and/or counter statement.
    A: Further explanation of original statement or refutation of counter statement

    Here is our exchange

    Me: We have below average ball handling
    You: OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID GEORGE HILL SUCKS!
    Me: That's not what I said, I said he's below average and not a great ball handler
    You: OMG OMG OMG NOTHING OF VALUE

    You still need to go back to turn two and state why you think I'm wrong about us having below average ball handling. Anything else is nothing but zero value flame bait, and you repeatedly use excessively inflammatory words. You aren't debating, you are trolling.
    Not even worth it
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 07-23-2014 at 12:50 AM.

  28. #319
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanPelley View Post
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    Lance slapped his daddy Bird in the face.
    Yeah. The cat had a freaking top 5 NBA legend take a chance on him and mentor him for multiple years. Most young guys would give their left you-know-what for that type of setup. Then he leaves for a worse offer. Maybe he's banking on Jordan giving him the same sort of love, but 45 still loves hitting the links and burning stoggies. It will be interesting to see if he gives Ready the same attention that Legend gave him.

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  30. #320
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Yeah. The cat had a freaking top 5 NBA legend take a chance on him and mentor him for multiple years. Most young guys would give their left you-know-what for that type of setup. Then he leaves for a worse offer. Maybe he's banking on Jordan giving him the same sort of love, but 45 still loves hitting the links and burning stoggies. It will be interesting to see if he gives Ready the same attention that Legend gave him.
    When it comes to Lance, he can't get enough attention.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    It does matter because someone has to handle the ball. You could have the best 3-4-5 tandem in the league, but if your 1-2 suck really bad and can't get them the ball, you are in trouble. Ball handling and passing are always relevant. You need someone with above average handling/passing, and currently no one on our roster can claim that.
    This is definitely you saying George Hill sucks really bad. I don't like your back-peddling trying to shame someone out of a perfectly good rebuttal.

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  33. #322
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    I don't know how some of you grade, but in my view if you are giving George Hill a B or B- you are telling me he is a top 10 to 15 starting point guard in the league. Look, I like George Hill, but in no universe is that the case. By just looking at play and not contracts you must put Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Kemba Walker, John Wall, Tony Parker, Russell Westbrook, Damien Lillard, Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Goran Dragic, Eric Bledsoe, Ty Lawson, Mike Conley, Jeff Teague and Jose Calderon firmly ahead of him. Guys like Trey Burke, Jameer Nelson, Reggie Jackson, Brandon Knight, and Brandon Jennings are debatable to some extent. Given these facts I think the absolute FRIENDLIEST grade you can give Hill as a starting PG would be a C-. I would be inclined to give him a D (again, being judged as a STARTING PG).

    Same deal with Hibbert. He is really tough to grade. He can be an outstanding defender, but is absurdly bad on offense and demands the ball. Still, if you are going to rank centers he probably falls between 10-15. To me that qualifies as a C+/B- grade (although his grade probably fluctuates more than anyone in the league).

    Paul George is great, no question. But remember, he was 3rd team all NBA and was not consistent. Yes, he is young and can get better, but you would certainly put Lebron, Durant and Blake Griffin firmly ahead of him. Anthony Davis, Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge are certainly debatable. To me Paul George is an A-/B+ guy.

    There would be my logic in terms of handing out grades. I mean, if you give George Hill a B does that mean 20 other point guards have a B or an A? Isn't that a tad bit inflated? The purpose of grading players is to compare them, which is tough to do if 20 players all have A's and B's.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    I'm trying to figure out why letter grades are dependent on the total number of players being ranked, and how many are below or above the player you're trying to give a letter grade to. That's not how letter grades work.

    If you have 10 PGs you're trying to rank, and say hypothetically all of them are good, you don't rank the top one an A and the last one a F.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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  37. #324
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm trying to figure out why letter grades are dependent on the total number of players being ranked, and how many are below or above the player you're trying to give a letter grade to. That's not how letter grades work.

    If you have 10 PGs you're trying to rank, and say hypothetically all of them are good, you don't rank the top one an A and the last one a F.
    You're grading objectively against a set of criteria. They are grading on a curve.

    The latter is like a company ranking where everyone performs exceptional but the rules require that someone be ranked "poor" and be fired anyway
    BillS

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    I know what grading on a curve is, and it's a *******ized system of actual letter grades.

    Let's say we have 20 PGs we're trying to rank them by their ability to score and all 20 of them score inbetween 25pts and 15pts. Are we really going to try and argue a PG that scores 15pts deserves a "F?" Probably not.

    EDIT: Or how about this, using non-hypotheticals. Are we really going to say that there are only 40 some odd "A" players in the NBA? There's 400 some odd players in the NBA, so the top 10% would all be A players.
    Last edited by Since86; 07-23-2014 at 12:40 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

    Larry Bird: Yeah, patience.

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