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Thread: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

  1. #226
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    New coach.... better offense.... Less reliance on Hibbert.
    This idea that Charlotte is a better offense is just laughable to me.

    Anyone up for a signature bet? I bet the Pacers will have a higher ranked offense next year than Charlotte. Easily.
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  3. #227
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I'm talking about Bird's quote from the article. Here's what Bird said:

    "I really feel bad about losing him,'' "I hope it doesn't interfere with our relationship. But I did what I could possibly do to keep him here. Even if he didn't have any other offers, I was committed to giving him that $44 million because I believe in the kid. If you look at our roster, we have five or six guys in the last year of their deals, plus David (West) and Roy (Hibbert) can opt out, so don't you think I wanted to keep Lance and Paul (George) locked into long-term deals?''

    That leads me to believe that if Lance told Bird that he wanted us to offer the same contract that Charlotte did then Bird would do in a heartbeat.
    I took that to mean that Bird's hands were tied by upper management, namely Simon. I agree that Bird would do whatever it took to keep Lance, but Bird doesn't write the checks. That "firm" offer that we heard so much about, my guess is that came from Simon in a "this is what we can spend" understanding. That's where Bird's disappointment comes from, I think. He wanted to do more to keep Lance. He simply couldn't due to our aversion to paying the luxury tax and our previous contracts already on the books. That's why we saw the team move quickly to spend their MLE. They had decided they wouldn't risk running a thin roster at the expense of keeping one player, so they went with the "by committee" approach.

    Actually, trading another starter for a cheaper player wouldn't be necessary.

    Take a look at this thread by T-bird -> http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...ance-after-all

    Look at option 3. We could release Scola, trade Mahinmi to Cleveland in a S&T for CJ Miles and we would be at $74,937,884 after signing Lance to our 5 year offer with our $7.6M starting salary.

    If we offered Lance the same deal that Charlotte did we would need to move up Lance's starting year salary at $9M which would still leave us under the luxury tax. $74,937,884+$1,400,000 = $76,537,884.

    The estimated salary cap was at $77,000,000 so we would still barely under it without having to trade another starter.
    Why would Cleveland help us to unload Mahinmi, though? It seems that they've been focused on Love and filling out the rest of the roster with cheaper deals like Mike Miller and potentially Ray Allen. And for whatever reason, per Candace, the Pacers have been determined to keep Scola for next season. Maybe it's part of a win-now mentality while we still have West and Roy on the books, or maybe it's to save face considering the assets we gave up for him. Regardless, Scola's spot on the roster seems secure (barring a trade for a point guard).

    Plus, if you match Lance's $9 million starting salary and push the total team salary to $76.5M, you only have $500k to fill the rest of the roster. You'd have only 13 players (considering the above scenario of releasing Scola and trading Ian happened) pushing the luxury tax. And that's with tbird's option 3. Without it, we'd have to get very creative to wiggle under the $77M while keeping a full roster.

    I think that the report is that Jordan pressured Lance and his agent to take the offer at that very moment or leave it. I don't really think that Lance had a choice here and that's why I don't believe that the report is disingenuous.
    I agree that Lance didn't have a choice. But it wasn't because of MJ, it was because of the Pacers inability to offer that specific contract structure. If they wouldn't budge on their five year contract starting at $7.6M, they helped to make Lance's decision for him, especially once Dallas fell through.

    Did the Mavs ever actually submit that offer? I remember hearing that they had interest in Lance but I never heard that they actually offered him a contract.

    It depends on whether the Mavs offer was actually submitted or not. There is no reason to raise your offer if no one else actually submits a better offer than you did.
    From ESPN after Lance signed:
    http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...7-million-deal
    The Dallas Mavericks had a two-year, $20 million offer on the table to Stephenson, contingent on the Houston Rockets matching their offer for forward Chandler Parsons. If Houston had matched, Stephenson would have signed with Dallas, sources said.
    Once Chandler went to Dallas, Lance's options were to stay in Indiana and take $3 million less for the term of the contract he wanted or sign with Charlotte and cash-in in three years when more lucrative contracts are handed out. That team option he gave Charlotte, to me, seems like a "give and take" of negotiations. Charlotte said, we can give you a shorter contract than Indiana, but you give us one option year, otherwise no deal. Unless Lance wanted to sign in Indy for five years, he didn't have a choice but to take on that team option in order to get the shorter contract he wanted.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Nuntius and other interested parties, here's the Mavs reported bid for Lance.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...7-million-deal

    The Dallas Mavericks had a two-year, $20 million offer on the table to Stephenson, contingent on the Houston Rockets matching their offer for forward Chandler Parsons. If Houston had matched, Stephenson would have signed with Dallas, sources said.
    It's by Broussard, but his source is clearly Lance's agent, so take that for what you will.

    Also, Mark Cuban at that time was openly talking about Lance, which suggests strong interest at least:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...nson/12586265/

    EDIT: ninja'd by Kuq

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I hope your right but at the end of the day I am not happy with depending on Roy Hibbert.

    Not only do I think we have taken a step back though I think several teams in the East have made improvements. But again, it's only July, there is a lot to be said and done between now and the start of the season.
    I don't think his teammates are all that happy depending on Roy either. At best the solution in the near future is to have a committee play the 5 with Roy as the senior committee member. There are just some bad match ups for Roy.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    I don't think his teammates are all that happy depending on Roy either. At best the solution in the near future is to have a committee play the 5 with Roy as the senior committee member. There are just some bad match ups for Roy.
    Can Roy become who he was lets say 2 seasons ago? I am not sure. Can we make his life easier? Yes. Four shooters around him ='s less double teams. True point guard ='s better passes. When Roy gets it going offensively because of those 2 factors? His confidence will increase, and any problems he has will be a distant memory.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I don't believe that was ever reported, just speculated on by a person or two here on PD.
    I think that it was a tweeted by a beat writer (either Candance or a national writer) but I'm not entirely sure about it so you could be right.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I do believe that was reported, that they planned to offer the contract. They never did, because they couldn't when Parsons was made available.
    I see. Thanks for the info. If the Mavs never submitted the contract offer then it wouldn't make sense to increase our offer.
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  11. #232
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'm not disagreeing (I think you and I have shared enough in person to interactions to know I am not slave to stats), but posts like "I just watch the games" or something of that ilk adds nothing to the conversation. Clearly everyone here watches the games or at least tries to catch as many as possible otherwise we wouldn't be on this message board. Stats are just a tool just as our ability to watch the games is also a tool. I just think it's very frustrating to inject stats into a conversation and be countered with something like "I just watch the games", ok, great? So does everyone here, but what else do you see when you watch? There is a balance to both. But being hard line on one side or the other just kills the conversation, it doesn't advance it at all.
    I get that.

    I also think people were not understanding Mckey fans nuanced humor there.

    But I will say that while I agree with you that stats have their place, you have to admit there are some people who are slaves to them.

    They are the numbers are a religion crowd and you meet them in all walks of life. I'll just go ahead and admit to being to stupid to understand half of it and the other half that I do understand I don't care about half of them so that leaves me with about a quarter that I understand and care about. See how I broke that down into basic stats for everyone.

    Having someone regurgitate TSP, EFP, PER, per36, etc., etc. is equally as irritating as someone saying I just watch the game.

    At the end of it all it doesn't really matter as I always just say two words and win.

    Dale Davis.

    Yes, that's right I don't care what the argument is or is about whoever utters the words Dale Davis first wins. Even if you try and make some crappy joke at the expense of Dale Davis by saying "what player sucks the most in the world" just by uttering the words Dale Davis you have utterly and totally destroyed any negative connotations that were to be laid at the feet of Dale Davis and whosoever tried to have fun at the expense of Dale Davis will ultimately suffer the stench of eternal damnation by being forced to smoke a turd in hell.

    Dale Davis FTW



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  13. #233
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I took that to mean that Bird's hands were tied by upper management, namely Simon. I agree that Bird would do whatever it took to keep Lance, but Bird doesn't write the checks. That "firm" offer that we heard so much about, my guess is that came from Simon in a "this is what we can spend" understanding. That's where Bird's disappointment comes from, I think. He wanted to do more to keep Lance. He simply couldn't due to our aversion to paying the luxury tax and our previous contracts already on the books. That's why we saw the team move quickly to spend their MLE. They had decided they wouldn't risk running a thin roster at the expense of keeping one player, so they went with the "by committee" approach.
    I took that to mean as "if we were told to offer a shorter contract we would absolutely do it". We will probably never learn which of the two interpretations is correct unless Bird comes out and clarifies his statement more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    Why would Cleveland help us to unload Mahinmi, though? It seems that they've been focused on Love and filling out the rest of the roster with cheaper deals like Mike Miller and potentially Ray Allen. And for whatever reason, per Candace, the Pacers have been determined to keep Scola for next season. Maybe it's part of a win-now mentality while we still have West and Roy on the books, or maybe it's to save face considering the assets we gave up for him. Regardless, Scola's spot on the roster seems secure (barring a trade for a point guard).
    Cleveland could always use some big man depth. Varejao is injury prone and Brendan Haywood cannot play 30+ MPG anymore on a team that wants to win the East.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    Plus, if you match Lance's $9 million starting salary and push the total team salary to $76.5M, you only have $500k to fill the rest of the roster. You'd have only 13 players (considering the above scenario of releasing Scola and trading Ian happened) pushing the luxury tax. And that's with tbird's option 3. Without it, we'd have to get very creative to wiggle under the $77M while keeping a full roster.
    Are we required to have a full roster? I thought that NBA teams were only required to have a minimum of 13 players (12 active players 1 inactive).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I agree that Lance didn't have a choice. But it wasn't because of MJ, it was because of the Pacers inability to offer that specific contract structure. If they wouldn't budge on their five year contract starting at $7.6M, they helped to make Lance's decision for him, especially once Dallas fell through.
    There is nothing that indicates that the Pacers weren't willing to offer Lance the contract that Charlotte offered him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    From ESPN after Lance signed:
    http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/...7-million-deal


    Once Chandler went to Dallas, Lance's options were to stay in Indiana and take $3 million less for the term of the contract he wanted or sign with Charlotte and cash-in in three years when more lucrative contracts are handed out. That team option he gave Charlotte, to me, seems like a "give and take" of negotiations. Charlotte said, we can give you a shorter contract than Indiana, but you give us one option year, otherwise no deal. Unless Lance wanted to sign in Indy for five years, he didn't have a choice but to take on that team option in order to get the shorter contract he wanted.
    I see. Thanks a lot for the link. It confirms that the Mavs planned to offer Lance a 2/20 contract but they didn't do it in the end because Houston didn't match their offer sheet for Chandler Parsons.

    I absolutely understand why Lance wanted a shorter contract. It does make a lot of sense from his perspective. However, I believe that if Lance told us to offer him the exact same contract we would have done so.

    In any case, I don't think that Lance chose to go to Charlotte because he didn't like our contract offer. This was about having the opportunity to be the #1 option and lead a team. Lance wants to be the star of a team because he wants to ensure that he is going to get the max when he becomes a FA again. That's why it makes a lot of sense from his perspective to go to Charlotte.
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Nuntius and other interested parties, here's the Mavs reported bid for Lance.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...7-million-deal



    It's by Broussard, but his source is clearly Lance's agent, so take that for what you will.

    Also, Mark Cuban at that time was openly talking about Lance, which suggests strong interest at least:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...nson/12586265/

    EDIT: ninja'd by Kuq
    I never doubted that interest, my friend. I remember reading about it. I just didn't know if the Mavs actually submitted their offer or not. That's all. It appears that the Mavs never actually submitted that offer because Houston didn't match Chandler's offer sheet and thus they didn't have enough cap space anymore.

    In any case, thanks a lot for the info and the links
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    So I guess the night of July 1st, Larry should have shown the movie and then had Dale Davis bring out the contract and pen. Dale looks at Lance and says "Sign it". Lance's agent says "We can't sign until the 10 days are up". Dale says again to Lance "Sign it". Lance says "Ok" :signs contract:

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  17. #236
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Fine it wasn't you, someone did, it's been stated numerous times in this thread, and it's not correct. Regardless, it doesn't make the one time you stated it any less incorrect. Midway does not equal year 3. The essence of the article is fine.

    Except as was further explained, there is no definition of midway that makes this article correct. There cannot be a player option in any year except the final year of a contract. Unless you have some convoluted way to make midway and final synonymous, you're simply wrong. There's no semantics here.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    There is nothing that indicates that the Pacers weren't willing to offer Lance the contract that Charlotte offered him.
    Well, sure, the CBA does. Can't expect Lance to wait--to tell Charlotte to wait--while you try to convince someone to take Mahimi in a S & T. (And do you take the risk of dumping the backup center, given how shaky Roy looks?) And I can't believe this, but it looks that Bird means to keep Scola around. (Somebody email him about the sunk cost fallacy.)

    Also, again, note how weasely (sp?) the Kravitz article is on this. "Except that according to Bird, the Pacers were willing to offer a shorter-term contract that would have given Stephenson the chance to cash in should his game continue to grow the way both he and Bird believe it will." If that shorter contract was for the same $/year, why not say so? Because it wasn't, and putting it this way gives the impression that it was for people who don't read carefully. (And look at the IndyStar comments: casual fans are eating this up...)

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Believe_in_blue View Post
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    So I guess the night of July 1st, Larry should have shown the movie and then had Dale Davis bring out the contract and pen. Dale looks at Lance and says "Sign it". Lance's agent says "We can't sign until the 10 days are up". Dale says again to Lance "Sign it". Lance says "Ok" :signs contract:
    is Suge out of jail yet?

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    Well, sure, the CBA does. Can't expect Lance to wait--to tell Charlotte to wait--while you try to convince someone to take Mahimi in a S & T. (And do you take the risk of dumping the backup center, given how shaky Roy looks?) And I can't believe this, but it looks that Bird means to keep Scola around. (Somebody email him about the sunk cost fallacy.)
    Wait, can't you sign your own FAs even if that takes you over the salary cap? If that's the case then Lance really wouldn't have to wait about anything. We could sign Lance and work the S&T for Ian later.

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    Also, again, note how weasely (sp?) the Kravitz article is on this. "Except that according to Bird, the Pacers were willing to offer a shorter-term contract that would have given Stephenson the chance to cash in should his game continue to grow the way both he and Bird believe it will." If that shorter contract was for the same $/year, why not say so? Because it wasn't, and putting it this way gives the impression that it was for people who don't read carefully. (And look at the IndyStar comments: casual fans are eating this up...)
    I really, really don't give a crap about Kravitz. I only care about what Bird said.
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I guess if you boil all my thoughts on Lance and the Pacers down to two sentences it would be this. Lance is an extremely talented player who would be hard to replace on a 1 to 1 basis, but I believe the Pacers can and have attempted to replace him by committee. The loss of Lance, while a big question mark from a cosmetic perspective, in reality has very little impact on the 2014-2015 Pacers being better or worse than the 2013-2014 Pacers IMO, whether or not Lance had returned, whether this team improves or declines will be determined by 4 people in particular George Hill, Paul George, Roy Hibbert, and Frank Vogel.
    Now that I've had time to read through the whole thread, I just want to say this sums up my perspective as well.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I also think people were not understanding Mckey fans nuanced humor there.
    I was responding to Since86. I think he got it.

    Not sure he laughed, but he got it.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Wait, can't you sign your own FAs even if that takes you over the salary cap? If that's the case then Lance really wouldn't have to wait about anything. We could sign Lance and work the S&T for Ian later.
    It's not that, but now that I think about it, you only need to get below the tax line by the end of the year, I believe. So you're right that you could do a trade later. (Although teams would know you are desperate and could hold you over a barrel).

    EDIT: Actually, once you've used the MLE can't go over the apron (=Tax Line+$4M) at all. So that leaves us about $2M short of signing Lance still, I believe. (And then you'd have to shed $4M later in the year).

    In other words, when a team is below the apron and uses its Bi-Annual exception, receives a player who is signed-and-traded, or uses its Mid-Level exception to sign a player to a contract larger than the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception allows, the team becomes hard-capped at the apron for the remainder of that season. This eliminates any potential loophole where a team could first use one of these exceptions and subsequently add salary to go above the apron, since adding salary first and then using the exception would be illegal.

    If a team is hard-capped, it cannot exceed the apron under any circumstance. If the team subsequently needs to sign a player (for example, to replace injured players) it must first create room under the apron by waiving player(s) with non-guaranteed salary, waiving player(s) with guaranteed salary and utilizing the stretch provision, trading downward in salary, etc. A team that is hard-capped can sign players to non-guaranteed contracts for training camp or the regular season, but must rid themselves of such players before their salary would take the team above the apron. A team subject to the hard cap can also sign players to rest-of-season contracts during the season, as long as the salary pro-ration keeps the team below the apron.

    A modified version of the team salary calculation is used for all transactions related to the apron and to the hard cap. See question number 14 for details.



    EDIT: or see this post linked by DrFife in the other thread
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...174942087.html



    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I really, really don't give a crap about Kravitz. I only care about what Bird said.
    This is Kravitz quoting (or paraphrasing) Bird. At least supposedly. Who knows, he could be making it up, misunderstood something etc.
    Last edited by dal9; 07-21-2014 at 11:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    It's not that, but now that I think about it, you only need to get below the tax line by the end of the year, I believe. So you're right that you could do a trade later. (Although teams would know you are desperate and could hold you over a barrel).

    EDIT: Actually, once you've used the MLE can't go over the apron (=Tax Line+$4M) at all. So that leaves us about $2M short of signing Lance still, I believe. (And then you'd have to shed $4M later in the year).

    In other words, when a team is below the apron and uses its Bi-Annual exception, receives a player who is signed-and-traded, or uses its Mid-Level exception to sign a player to a contract larger than the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception allows, the team becomes hard-capped at the apron for the remainder of that season. This eliminates any potential loophole where a team could first use one of these exceptions and subsequently add salary to go above the apron, since adding salary first and then using the exception would be illegal.

    If a team is hard-capped, it cannot exceed the apron under any circumstance. If the team subsequently needs to sign a player (for example, to replace injured players) it must first create room under the apron by waiving player(s) with non-guaranteed salary, waiving player(s) with guaranteed salary and utilizing the stretch provision, trading downward in salary, etc. A team that is hard-capped can sign players to non-guaranteed contracts for training camp or the regular season, but must rid themselves of such players before their salary would take the team above the apron. A team subject to the hard cap can also sign players to rest-of-season contracts during the season, as long as the salary pro-ration keeps the team below the apron.

    A modified version of the team salary calculation is used for all transactions related to the apron and to the hard cap. See question number 14 for details.



    EDIT: or see this post linked by DrFife in the other thread
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...174942087.html
    I see. Thanks a lot for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    This is Kravitz quoting (or paraphrasing) Bird. At least supposedly. Who knows, he could be making it up, misunderstood something etc.
    I wasn't talking about the part that you quoted that Kravitz paraphrased. I was talking about Bird's actual quote that has been widely reported nation-wide (the "It's just disappointing, I feel bad about losing him and I did what I possibly could to keep him here" etc. parts of the article).
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  29. #244
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    dal9 is right, we're hard capped by the apron because of the CJ Miles signing. (I keep harping on the Miles signing, but it's nothing against him personally - in CBA terms it really took away a huge amount of flexibility.)

    Lance couldn't even sign our original 5 year $44m offer anymore, unless we waived someone first.

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  31. #245
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Sure, a lot of us have been much more pro or anti Lance, but how you can not see some shift in general with the people with opinions in between (before it was clear he was gone) is pretty much beyond me. Sorry .
    I can see how it appears that way, but it is closer to the truth that people who have been silent are now speaking up.

    Look, I'm actually happy Lance isn't back here and CJ Miles is instead. I think it's going to work. But, I also thought Lance was going to be signed by the Pacers so there was nothing to say.

    I haven't posted much at all over the last few months because there was not much I could add. I didn't believe in the offensive structure, I haven't for a long time (wintermute in another thread linked to me actually criticizing the Pacers offense back in November when the Pacers were crushing the league).

    edit - Please note I'm not saying I predicted the Pacers falling flat on their faces. I never could have seen that coming. I just knew there was something wrong with the Pacers offense at the time I wasn't entirely sure what. I just saw PG playing out of his mind the Pacers offense was still ranked lower than what it should be if you have a guy like PG destroying the league...

    So once George Hill was relegated to basically the two guard position this past season, and his numbers crashed, and his play suffered there wasn't much I could say. He was playing bad in a role that wasn't meant for him but since Lance was playing pretty well, there wasn't a lot I could say. I do believe that I will be validated this upcoming season. The offense should work much better as Hill regains his role as fulltime point guard, and CJ Miles adds much needed shooting. We shall see.
    Last edited by mattie; 07-22-2014 at 06:47 AM.
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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  33. #246
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Also, as happy as I am with the Pacers direction, I don't think it would have been the worst thing if Lance was signed either! Honestly. I think Lance will be a great player some day in the right situation, so if the Pacers kept him, they would have kept what I believe will be a future all-star. I think if they kept Lance tho, the team would have needed to blown it up. I think Roy, Hill and West would have needed to been traded so the team could add some shooting at the 4 and 1 positions, and so that they could speed up the pace and completely change the way the team played.

    With Lance and PG dominating the ball, a starting stretch 4, and an absolute shooter at 1 (not a point guard, but a shooter) would be necessary. Sort of like the Miami heat last year is how the Pacers would have to go. The Heat put shooters around Wade and LBJ, the Pacers would have to do the same. Anywho...
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  34. #247
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Haven't seen this article posted, nothing really new, but does refute Kravitz points as has been done in this thread

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...174942087.html
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-22-2014 at 09:16 AM.

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  36. #248
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Bottomline with me is this. If lance matures, if he truly becomes a team player, if he stops most of his antics, if he learns to play hard when he isn't in the spotlight, if he improves his shooting if he learns to play NBA basketball, and if he becomes a better teammate, all things he is capable of doing, the the pacers made a huge mistake letting him go. And I don't care about salary cap issues or other player issues, but if lance does all those things then he will be too good to have passed up. I doubt he'll be able to do all of that and I seriously doubt lance and PG could have co-existed

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  38. #249
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Haven't seen this article posted, nothing really new, but does refute Kravitz points as has been done in this article

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...174942087.html
    This article references an old article http://8points9seconds.com/2012/07/0...value/#!bjLFRU thats interesting from when they signed Roy/GHill.

    Sorry if this is already posted.

  39. #250
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Larry Bird stunned Lance left

    Let just end this thread with everyone thoughts on the following...

    If Lance blows up over the next 3 years do you want Larry Bird to chase him in Free Agency? Should he be part of Larry's long term plan for this team?
    It seems like several teams begin the targeting process for certain player years in advance now days. If this came to be true, Larry would be paying Lance a bigger contract than PG. Both Hibbert and West expire in 2 years. Would you be willing to see the Pacers make a few stop gap 1 year signings (ie- tread water) for one year to target Lance the All-Star?
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