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Thread: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

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    Default Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Starting Miles is an option, and the Pacers’ four-year, $18 million deal for him is a big bet on his becoming a more well-rounded player. He’d certainly provide more spacing for the starters, and the Pacers could slot Stuckey in as co-point guard with C.J. Watson on second units — a role that Stephenson played last season. But starting Miles would place an enormous burden on George to create damn near everything from the perimeter, and as great a two-way player as George is at his peak, he hasn’t proven up to that kind of responsibility.
    Scoring will be a major challenge for Frank Vogel and his staff. Vogel has done well in Indiana, but the team’s offense has stagnated as the defense developed into a juggernaut. The defense should remain stout next season, though Miles and Stuckey mark a step down from Stephenson on that end. Stuckey can’t slide over to small forwards like Stephenson can, and Miles, though rangy, has occasional lapses in alertness that have frustrated prior coaches. George is going to be exhausted by the end of next season.


    Still: The system will work as long as George and Hibbert are around. Indy was a borderline top-five defense even as the team fell apart after the All-Star break. Joke about Hibbert’s bricky shooting and lack of rebounding, but recognize he was still scaring the crap out of John Wall and Bradley Beal in the conference semifinals.


    The offense needs more care. Really, it needs a total revamp, a task that gets harder without Stephenson. Vogel has to make better use of his bench, including the duo of stretch power forwards he now has in Copeland and Rudez. There just needs to be more continuity — more movement, more cohesion, no more dudes mucking up the team’s spacing by standing in random spots inside the 3-point line. A one-way team can get only so far. The Pacers stand as the best current evidence of that.
    Looks like Vogel is going to have his work cut out for him, hopefully we can see some creativity.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Scoring was a major problem with Stephenson because he was a massive ball stopper.

    If we insert Miles we may be less talented, but I am sure we will be a better passing team with a smoother offense.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Zach Lowe is one of the best, in this article he's leaning towards Hornets being very good and Pacers taking a step back, but acknowledges the complete opposite is very possible.

    I'm takin the latter...

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    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    signing Lance would have been worth it just so that Bird is forced to cut Scola...I am becoming very worried that they actually do mean to keep him next year...throwing good money after bad...

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    I don't think we would have spent on Allen if we actually planned on keeping Scola long term JMO

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't think we would have spent on Allen if we actually planned on keeping Scola long term JMO
    I don't think Lavoy Allen's deal has anything to do with any long term plans.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    A lot is going to depend on Hibbert going forward, he needs to bounce back in a big way because it appears we are going to be running a lot of offense inside out through the post again. My bet is that CJ Miles and improved spacing should help in this department. The defense should be just as good as ever, the offense will continue to be the question mark. Paul George improving his handle would also be a big deal.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Zach Lowe is one of the best, in this article he's leaning towards Hornets being very good and Pacers taking a step back, but acknowledges the complete opposite is very possible.

    I'm takin the latter...
    Yeah. Basically he covered himself no matter what actually happens.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Consider me worried about our allready pretty bad ball-handling taking another step back and us becoming (much) more vulnerable when opposing teams increase the pressure on our ball-handlers , aswell as trapping them.

    Complain about Lance beying a ballhog, he is, all you want aswell as his TO's, but he OTOH was pretty damn good when facing intense pressure and keeping the ball.

    So, PG, besides beying our primary offensive and defensive player with IMHO too much ball-handling duties allready this pastseason probably gets even more ball-handling duties now. Swell... Lets burn our starplayer out even more and btw increase the probability/chance of him suffering a major injury in the process.
    Last edited by Mourning; 07-17-2014 at 05:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't think we would have spent on Allen if we actually planned on keeping Scola long term JMO
    Any chance Allen has more of an effect on Mahinmi's future than Scola's future?

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    A lot is going to depend on Hibbert going forward, he needs to bounce back in a big way because it appears we are going to be running a lot of offense inside out through the post again. My bet is that CJ Miles and improved spacing should help in this department. The defense should be just as good as ever, the offense will continue to be the question mark. Paul George improving his handle would also be a big deal.


    IMF....... Miles is a great shooter. I think what could work is CJ Miles starting at the two? And us getting an elite point guard. Stuckey and Watson coming off the bench. The question is, who to deal where we don't leave too many holes behind? Hibbert being dealt means we need a replacement center. If you package him and Hill together, you can get a dynamic PG, and a replacement center.

  20. #12

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Well this is where George Hill comes in on the creating side of the offense. Paul George will have to create more offense yes, but George Hill will now be tasked to be a creator as well. I think something the national media misses is how good of a player Hill actually is when aggressive. I think everyone who watched Hill in SA and here when aggressive knows he can create, and without Lance, he will be forced to be aggressive. Stuckey isn't a bad creator himself either.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    IMF....... Miles is a great shooter. I think what could work is CJ Miles starting at the two? And us getting an elite point guard. Stuckey and Watson coming off the bench. The question is, who to deal where we don't leave too many holes behind? Hibbert being dealt means we need a replacement center. If you package him and Hill together, you can get a dynamic PG, and a replacement center.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Well this is where George Hill comes in on the creating side of the offense. Paul George will have to create more offense yes, but George Hill will now be tasked to be a creator as well. I think something the national media misses is how good of a player Hill actually is when aggressive. I think everyone who watched Hill in SA and here when aggressive knows he can create, and without Lance, he will be forced to be aggressive. Stuckey isn't a bad creator himself either.
    And our courtvision and our ability to actually deliver the ball quickly and accurately? What do you think about that part of the equation for next season?
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    And our courtvision and our ability to actually deliver the ball quickly and accurately? What do you think about that part of the equation for next season?
    Pacers offense delivered the ball quickly and accurately? What team were you watching?

  27. #16

    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    I don't know how you can read this and not come to the conclusion that he thinks this is a serious downgrade. Of course he's gonna leave himself an out, but he clearly thinks this team will have serious issues in the playmaking department. Also, the stat about having the 3rd lowest field goal attempts in the paint is absolutely pathetic for a power post team, and we just let our best player at attacking the paint walk lol.

    Feel free to spin it however you want though.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    If we just had a PG we would be in a lot better shape. Too bad we couldn't have worked something out with Lance and acquire one.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    If we just had a PG we would be in a lot better shape. Too bad we couldn't have worked something out with Lance and acquire one.
    I feel the FO is gonna get us a new PG before the season starts. And one of our bigs will be replaced as well. If they can pull that off, and you add in Miles and Paul George we are still contenders.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    And our courtvision and our ability to actually deliver the ball quickly and accurately? What do you think about that part of the equation for next season?
    I don't think that should be a problem, Lance and PG were the worst at that from simply trying to be too fancy with it. Lance is gone now, and PG is young and will improve in that area.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I feel the FO is gonna get us a new PG before the season starts. And one of our bigs will be replaced as well. If they can pull that off, and you add in Miles and Paul George we are still contenders.
    Grimp we could be 50-1 and you would still feel a trade is coming.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Pacers offense delivered the ball quickly and accurately? What team were you watching?
    You might want to read my post again before getting snarky.

    I never wrote we were good passing the ball quickly and accurately this past season, but you can always get worse... and without a significant retooling of our disastrous offense of the past seasons, which I doubt will happen btw, I struggle to see how exactly we will get better offensively when our starting PG is vulnerable to intense pressure, isn't (as far as I know) a very good entry passer (in an offense where that pass is important next to the PF getting the ball at the top of the key and working from there), and IMHO now wont have another ball-handler in the starting line up to whom he might pass and have a decent chance of atleast something decent happening offensively.

    You thought Lance was terrible as a ball-handler, but I think PG is much worse and he will likely be asked to do more of just that, while at the sametime expending huge mounts of energy beying the primary option on both offense and defense. I don't see that working longterm either, because he is good, but he is not LeBron and I think the burden and expectations we are putting on his shoulders will become too big and I think he will be fighting fatigue more and more especially with now Lance gone, but also our PFs, who are important passers in our offense, getting pretty old, meaning a lesser role on the short and longterm.
    Last edited by Mourning; 07-17-2014 at 06:40 PM.
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    You might want to read my post again before getting snarky. I never wrote we were good passing the ball quickly and accurately this past season, but you can always get worse... and without a significant retooling of our disastrous offense of the past seasons, which I doubt will happen btw, I struggle to see how exactly we will get better offensively when our starting PG is vulnerable to intense pressure, isn't (as far as I know) a very good entry passer (in an offense where that pass is important next to the PF getting the ball at the top of the kwy and working from there), and IMHO now wont have another ball-handler in the line up to whom he might pass and have a decent chane of atleast something decent happening offensively.
    Here is the thing, Lance is a ball stopper and there is no doubting that, what if we improve our offense by inserting a shooter and ball mover like Miles into the starting line-up? I wouldn't say Hill is a bad post entry passer either.

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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Consider me worried about our allready pretty bad ball-handling taking another step back and us becoming (much) more vulnerable when opposing teams increase the pressure on our ball-handlers , aswell as trapping them.

    Complain about Lance beying a ballhog, he is, all you want aswell as his TO's, but he OTOH was pretty damn good when facing intense pressure and keeping the ball.

    So, PG, besides beying our primary offensive and defensive player with IMHO too much ball-handling duties allready this pastseason probably gets even more ball-handling duties now. Swell... Lets burn our starplayer out even more and btw increase the probability/chance of him suffering a major injury in the process.
    Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

    This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.
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  40. #24
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Here is the thing, Lance is a ball stopper and there is no doubting that, what if we improve our offense by inserting a shooter and ball mover like Miles into the starting line-up? I wouldn't say Hill is a bad post entry passer either.
    I really think he is. I never said Lance wasn't a ballhog btw. OTOH why would Lance be incapable of improving elements of his game like other players do, while he is still young and has only two starting seasons behind him, in one of which he played a relatively limited role on offense?
    Last edited by Mourning; 07-18-2014 at 06:49 AM. Reason: annoying spelling error...
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    Default Re: Zach Lowe on Lance and Pacer's loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Okay I wish we would dispell this myth that G. Hill turns the ball over. During the 2013 Playoffs series against the the Pacers turned the ball over 111 times. Hill had 14 of them. Hardly a guy that coughs it up under pressure.

    This year against the Heat he had 9 the entire series.
    didn't we basically take the ball out of his hands, tho?

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