now go get him, NBA2K it and sprinkle all the Spurs dust on it. good luck.
now go get him, NBA2K it and sprinkle all the Spurs dust on it. good luck.
On the bright side I'm not close to being sure this team was ever going to fully recover back into a title contender after the collapse. They "may" have but once something breaks with any product or profession it usually requires a new part or piece to repair it. You can't glue or tape something & have it come out being better or even as good as new likely.
This Pacer team looked broken to me. The East was weak. San Antonio proved that. Miami proved we were no longer the pre-all star break legit team or even the suprising, scrappy underdogs the year prior. We weren't championship worthy as currently constructed. We got the 1 seed because Miami, while better than us was also not playing well. We could have had hopes to challenge in the East this year due to Miami breaking up, Rose's suspect health, & hopes that our young players improved.
I still think this team before today was broken. Even if the East sucked next year & guys came back improved individually we were broken. The unknown issue that cropped up was still there with Lance staying.
I wanted Lance back but felt either Hibbert would need to go or that we needed a pure PG. I liked how we looked with letting our small lineup run & gun style last year. The sample size was beyond small for that though.
Lance would roam the baselinethis year if he didn't have the rock, so a Rondo type guard would not be an ideal guy to pair with a SG like Lance. The collapse made Lance walking bearable to me. Pre allstar the thought of him leaving was very scary to me.
At the end of the day I think our offer to Lance was better & the deal he took proves we didn't low ball him or go cheap. He chose to leave. We could have matched the Hornets offer. Cut Scola & it's there. Lance either wants to be the man or there were just hard feelings with people here in Indy.
I'd bet our chemistry will improve. It dipped this year only after Lance got better & better. Lance was saying he would be willing to be a 6th man behind Granger last offseason. He was happy to just have a major role early. Like him or not the humble Lance was gone by the all star break. He became entitled by season's end.
Yes, our overall talent will go down, but were the Spurs the most talent loaded team? Probably not. They were loaded for sure, but they just fit well as a team.
I remember losing Antonio Davis after the ECF in 99. We expected to make the Finals in 99 too. Instead we lost in 6 & that year was a bit disappointing. Antonio was emerging into a border line allstar like Lance. He asked to be moved, was moved, & Austin Croshere came from nowhere to HELP guide us to the Finals in 2000. If you watched every game that year you know Austin was playing awesome & you weren't shocked by his Finals performance. We actually got Jonathan Bender for Davis that year. Bender didn't contribute in 2000, yet we still improved team wise despite losing Davis.
Yes it's true we already had Dale Davis in front of Antonio Davis & this time we dont have a great guy to just plug in at SG for Lance.
So in summary we became less talented but probably less broken today. How that translates to team success NOBODY knows.
In my humble opinion something had to change anyways. A new coach, going smaller, or trading for a new PG.
Making constant changes to a core would have been an overreaction had the Heat just edged us. I could see keeping our team exactly the same another year if we hadn'tn't imploded. Just remember that the collapse did happen, so standing pat wasn't our answer anyway.
It will be interesting to see if we get lucky & get to watch a guy from out of nowhere give us a Croshere type boost .
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1 - 2, Tinsley's coming for you.
3 - 4, You're not a team no more.
5 - 6, He's gonna plead the 5th.
7 - 8, He's gonna stay out late.
you typed all that on a phone?
Lebron & Wade
Korver Jeff Teague and Paul Milsap
Lowry & Ross
Those are from the east alone. My point is, those are decent players list hence signing Stuckey ain't that bad for me
Seriously people our stubborn coach will be our demise not the players. I guess most of you are ignoring it. Vogel is as stubborn as Obrien, unwilling to play guys to their strengths. He believes this and that's it. We're gonna ball to one and one song only.
I'm not perfect and neither are you.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv
Our stubborn coach who is working on a one year contract? The one that hasn't been extended? Hopefully Bird will have a few Come to Heaven talks with him.
If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..
reading this post feels like trying to figure out what stages of the kubler-ross everyone is on. kstat is probably laughing his *** off at this thread.
I mean holy hell, he was far from the most damaging on-court presence the Pistons had in this era (Will Bynum award), but off the court the guy was peerless.
Look, I get it: hope for the best, worst case he can be released. My worry from the other side of this is another Andrew Bynum effect where he eats away at the team from the inside and by the time he's been dealt with, its too late.
Last edited by Kstat; 07-17-2014 at 06:51 AM.
It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.
Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004
Well if nothing else, you can't say that Rodney doesn't have a nice smile
Said to my flatmate about two-three hours before the Stuckey interest was revealed - "Jameer Nelson, Stuckey or a longer shot, Kent Bazemore to replace Stephenson."
It's the most we could expect to get and I'm not disappointed as it was alongside expectation. Stuckey isn't a bad player from what I've seen, just needs some consistency and a better situation to play in... or he'll be as good as Evan Turner wasn't.
Pacers fan since April 9th 2004 - New Jersey 80 Indiana 90.
Not exactly excited about the signing, but as long as its a cheap deal I really don't mind it.
The one reason that this COULD work is that he is basically playing for his career now. He screws this up, he's done for in the NBA.
Now the question is, does he realize that this could be his last chance?
"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel
"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca
Bazemore signed with Atlanta I think. The only positive from this signing, is many people on real gm seem to see Stuckey as a point guard. And he was used primarily in Detroit as a point guard. This COULD mean.... Stuckey and Miles are coming off the bench. And Watson will be packaged in a trade with someone else for a REAL Lance replacement or a whole new back court altogether.
^This article from 2011 suggests that his best position is point guard. And if that's the case, that means we have four point guards on the roster. Hill, Sloan, Stuckey, Watson.
Vogel isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, so maybe he believes Stuckey can play the two. But I wonder if this addition means a trade is coming.
Last edited by Grimp; 07-17-2014 at 08:53 AM.
I think Stuckey will be a good citizen on a better team with better coaching.
Getting Stuckey at a veteran minimum is a great deal, but it's hard for me to say that a team with CJ Miles + Stuckey is better than the one with Lance, unless Lance truly was a blackhole in chemistry and a stat-padder.
What I think I'll miss the most about Lance is his energy and bulldog mentality, most of our other guys look like they just woke up from a nap some games.
I'll keep saying to myself that (Miles, Stuckey, Rudez) at least equals (Stephenson, Turner, Bynum) because of the suckiness/irrelevance due to health that was Turner and Bynum.
That makes my cope. It's how I roll.
Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-17-2014 at 09:21 AM.
The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)
I feel a trade is coming though. This signing to me looks more and more suspect. Stuckey is a point guard. His shooting is worse than Lance. Especially from 3. If the Lance talks broke down in week 1, like most articles suggest? The front office couldn't have just been sitting around waiting on Lance. I think they were lining up a trade. They talked with Stuckey during that time about maybe being backup point guard? That would mean CJ is going somewhere in a package. It makes sense because CJ for what he brings to the table and his contract has value. CJ and Stuckey's contracts are similar in years too. Both are on 1 year deals now. CJ signed with us for two seasons. He's entering his last season now. Stuckey was signed to a 1 year. Why add a replacement for Lance specifically who is smaller, and not as skilled a shooter as he is? And who isn't starting quality?
And if Miles was gonna start, then that means that we'd need a two guard replacement off the bench..... again. Something doesn't fit here. Not gonna speculate or get peoples hopes up but I suspect at least 45% right now that they've had something cooking for the last few weeks. I just can't see them waiting on Lance, and then choosing Stuckey as a plan B. Because surely, they would've reached out to another two guard on the market and said don't sign with anyone because if Lance leaves, we wanna sign you. That has happened before with teams. They also had time to retain Turner since the Lance talks broke down so quickly. So I think they put together a trade to replace Lance and maybe get a new PG too. Stuckey, could be CJ's replacement. Their deals are similar, except Stuckey is bigger and more physical at the PG spot than CJ is.
I think you are on to something Grimp.
The only reason I think there will be a trade is because Damjan Rudez and Chris Copeland are redundant. They are the same type of player, and there runs the risk that Vogel won't play either one for defensive purposes.