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Thread: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

  1. #1

    Default Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Ladies and Gentlemen, lets meet your 2012-2013 Indiana Pacers starting line-up:

    George Hill- 14.2 ppg 4.7 apg 45% shooting
    Lance Stephenson- 8.8 ppg 3.9 rpg 46% shooting
    Paul George- 17.4 ppg 7.6 rpg 42% shooting
    David West- 17.1 ppg 7.7 rpg 50% shooting
    Roy Hibbert- 12 ppg 8.3 rpg 45% shooting

    So whats changed? Well Paul George is a much better offensive player, and is still improving on that end. Gone is Lance as the 5th starter, but we insert C.J. Miles who can easily give us those offensive numbers in a starting role, Miles can just spot up and knock down 3's, which is no doubt a better fit for us. George Hill is going to take a bigger role offensively, and he can replicate these numbers if not improve on them. David West may not be as good no, but Paul George improving off-sets it, and D-West still proved he has it in the playoffs, averaging over 15 ppg on 50+% shooting. Finally that leaves us with Hibbert, who, unless you have been living under a rock, clearly did not play well with Lance. He didn't like Lance, and Lance probably wasn't a big fan of Hibbert's. Roy was a beast the 2nd half of this season, and without Lance now and us going back to our inside-out style, who's to say he can't replicate that?

    Now onto the bench, in the 12-13 season, our bench was as made up of an Augustin/Young/Hansbrough/Mahinmi line-up. Which to be honest, was terrible. Our bench as of now, consists of a Watson/Hill/Scola/Mahinmi line-up. Is that bench great? No, but I think it is certainly better than the one we trotted out in 12-13, especially if Solomon Hill turns out to be as good as Vogel has described him.

    Now for my final part, the results of each season. In 13-14 our most recent season, the Lance/PG led Pacers team took an old Miami team to 6 games and lost. In 12-13, the Pacers took a superior Heat team to the 13-14 one to 7 games, and lost on Miami's floor. So in a way, you could say our 12-13 Pacers were actually the better team than the 13-14 Pacers. So the bottom line to me is, why can't we be a better team than without Lance?

    Go Pacers!

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  3. #2
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    West is the big ?

    If he can return to that 2012-2013 efficiency then yeah we can 100% survive this especially with Paul's continued improvement. But if West is just too old it will hurt us by 5-6 games in the regular season IMO

    That being said it's not really a great comparison. I still think we'll be very very good, but that's just mainly because I think Paul is top 5 player in the league this year which is independent of Lance or anyone else.

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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    We can be a decent team, but with or without Lance I am not sure we were ever true title contenders.

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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Could have added this to the other thread...
    Why so SERIOUS

  7. #5

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    West is the big ?

    If he can return to that 2012-2013 efficiency then yeah we can 100% survive this especially with Paul's continued improvement. But if West is just too old it will hurt us by 5-6 games in the regular season IMO
    West is certainly a question mark, but if we get all-star Hibbert that we saw in 12-13 once he got healthy, I think we can survive West not living exactly up to his 12-13 numbers, in-fact we would be better off that way to me. I think people underestimate Miles a bit too, he is inconsistent yes, but when he is hot he can win you a game off his shooting alone. He would be worth 9-10m on the open market if he was consistent.

  8. #6

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    West is the big ?

    If he can return to that 2012-2013 efficiency then yeah we can 100% survive this especially with Paul's continued improvement. But if West is just too old it will hurt us by 5-6 games in the regular season IMO

    That being said it's not really a great comparison. I still think we'll be very very good, but that's just mainly because I think Paul is top 5 player in the league this year which is independent of Lance or anyone else.
    We also did this with a worse bench, he had the Hansbros, if Scola can learn how to shoot again and CJ Miles can score some buckets, we might be in the same boat.

  9. #7

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    We haven't been a title contender since 03-04.

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  11. #8

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    We haven't been a title contender since 03-04.
    We went to the ECF and took the eventual champions to 7 games...... Is this supposed to be green?

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  13. #9
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    We went to the ECF and took the eventual champions to 7 games...... Is this supposed to be green?
    I am starting to remember why I put him on ignore this past season. Despite his name he is eternally pessimistic to the point I wonder if he is actually a fan.

  14. #10

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I am starting to remember why I put him on ignore this past season. Despite his name he is eternally pessimistic to the point I wonder if he is actually a fan.
    Im starting to agree with that.

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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    I'm really interested to see what happens. I didn't think we were in title contention next year, especially with a front line of Hibbert and West. West didn't look like he wanted to be here for the last couple months, and Hibbert didn't look like he was here. Now I think West can turn it around no problem, but I have little faith in Hibbert turning it around while he is here. I think he needs a new start somewhere else. Also, if we play inside to out I think we're totally screwed. If we do stay a power in the East I think it'll be more due to Hill saying F this and having a great year than anything else (and I do think that could happen).
    Danger Zone

  17. #12
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Still think we will be the best Defensive Team in the League. I just don't see that changing. Rebounding will be tough for this group though.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  18. #13
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Personally I don't see losing Lance as that fatal to our team. If we lose, PG or West, I would agree but Lance can be replaced.


    This may be a situation where PG is forced to be more involved (which is great for us)
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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  20. #14
    Member Eleazar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Still think we will be the best Defensive Team in the League. I just don't see that changing. Rebounding will be tough for this group though.
    We averaged 45.9 RPG in 12-13 when Lance only averaged 3.9, compared to 44.7 this year. We miss Hansbrough's rebounding more than we will miss Lance's. Like I have said many times before. Lance wasn't in there fighting for tough rebounds, most of his rebounds were easy rebounds that the defensive team would normally get anyways. So replacing his rebounding should be quite easy.

  21. #15
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    We averaged 45.9 RPG in 12-13 when Lance only averaged 3.9, compared to 44.7 this year. We miss Hansbrough's rebounding more than we will miss Lance's. Like I have said many times before. Lance wasn't in there fighting for tough rebounds, most of his rebounds were easy rebounds that the defensive team would normally get anyways. So replacing his rebounding should be quite easy.
    That is so false, Lance was rebounding in traffic. He crashed the boards alot. He was the reason we were able to offset the loss of Psycho-T. I would not be surprised to see our Rebound drop to around 40 RPG.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  23. #16

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    I agree with many of the OP's points that says this year's team could mostly replicate and in some ways improve on the 2012 squad. Where I stop is analyzing the 2012 team just on the results. That was a 49 win team. They then went 11-10 in the playoffs with only the 8th best playoff scoring differential (despite winning the 3rd most games of anybody). They won some close games, and also got the matchups that fit their team that year.

    Basically, the regular season results and the playoff results did not match up. The predictive indicators matched up much better with the regular season record than how far they advanced in the playoffs. Either way, it was a good team, but that particular year's Pacers team was not a typical almost making to the NBA finals type of team.

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  25. #17

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Sometimes fit is more important than talent. If Miles excels in his 3&D role, we could replicate the success of last year and go beyond it, easily.

    Roy Hibbert is really what matters in this equation. And having a player that can shoot can only help him.

  26. #18

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Still think we will be the best Defensive Team in the League. I just don't see that changing. Rebounding will be tough for this group though.
    Why? We were a good rebounding team before Lance took a big step in that department.

  27. #19

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    I agree with many of the OP's points that says this year's team could mostly replicate and in some ways improve on the 2012 squad. Where I stop is analyzing the 2012 team just on the results. That was a 49 win team. They then went 11-10 in the playoffs with only the 8th best playoff scoring differential (despite winning the 3rd most games of anybody). They won some close games, and also got the matchups that fit their team that year.

    Basically, the regular season results and the playoff results did not match up. The predictive indicators matched up much better with the regular season record than how far they advanced in the playoffs. Either way, it was a good team, but that particular year's Pacers team was not a typical almost making to the NBA finals type of team.
    That was a 49 win team because of their slow start they got off to with the Granger news. That team was a 54-55 win team in terms of how good they were. Remember their last game vs Boston got canceled, so they likely would have went 50-32

  28. #20

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Why? We were a good rebounding team before Lance took a big step in that department.
    For all his faults Tyler was a good rebounder Scola is not at all and likewise neither is Miles so unless Roy finds his inner Hans I think we are signifincantly worse rebounding team.

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  30. #21

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Just realized that Shelvin Mack might be available. Atlanta has made a qualifying offer. I don't know if they would match a higher offer or not. But he is underutilized by Atlanta. He has a great assist/turnover ratio and shoots pretty well. He is unusually mature and a solid citizen. He is loved in INDY. We ought to take a shot at him. Maybe a sign-and-trade.

  31. #22

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Losing Lance DOESN'T take us out of title contention. Replacing him with RODNEY STUCKEY... DOES. Look, when good players move on it's a business, I get it. But on some level it's also exciting (unless they're franchise changers like KD). Because it becomes a time where you get to see what your front office is "really", made of. And what they can come up with as a replacement. But IF, we adjourn our off season with Rodney Stuckey at SG, and Hill and Hibbert still here. Then I think it's time maybe to break up this front office.

  32. #23
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention because we were never in title contention.

  33. #24
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    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    Losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention because we were never in title contention.
    Depends on which team you're referring to. The 1st or 2nd half team...

  34. #25

    Default Re: Why losing Lance doesn't take us out of title contention

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    For all his faults Tyler was a good rebounder Scola is not at all and likewise neither is Miles so unless Roy finds his inner Hans I think we are signifincantly worse rebounding team.
    Scola was actually a decent rebounder for us this past season.

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