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Thread: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    What this really boils down to is matchups, and specifically how we match up vs Miami. On paper, Miami is weak at PG with Chalmers, and should be exposed. For whatever reason, George Hill has not out-played Chalmers, and Miami knows we cannot win the PG matchup. Now with Dragic at PG, Miami has their hands full trying to win that matchup
    David "And One" West

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  3. #177
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    The problem is, you're using purely stats around the rim. That's it. How about how many times he got beat on the PnR?
    Not all Centers are able to defend the PnR. If the vast majority of the Centers can defend the PnR and Hibbert can't, I'll consider that a real weakness in his game cuz he can't do what other Centers do. I agree that it sucks that he can't defend the PnR....but I'm not going to knock Hibbert for something that not every Center can do themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    How many times did he repeatedly let Dwayne Wade get into the lane only to drop a tear drop on his face?
    Isn't our Defense designed to allow those 10 feet floaters? Don't we give up the Mid-range jumpshot or anything in that area cuz the defense is designed that way? The defense is designed to funnel the offense to the Center where Teams either run into Center or they take the wide open floater or mid-range jumpshot at the FT line.

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    How many times did he flat out not close out on a three point shot in the Atlanta series? He was bad at a lot of things, defense was one.
    The Centers are supposed to be protecting the paint. I don't expect Hibbert to close out on a Perimeter shooting Player when Hibbert is supposed to stay within 5 feet from the rim. You're asking a Center ( what's worse, someone that is already slow ) to cover a large amount of space. Hibbert certainly can't do that......and I doubt that the majority of the Centers can do the same. If he is able to get within range of doing so.....great....if he can't....I'm not going to knock him for that.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  4. #178
    PD Magician Magic P's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Gortat was torching Hibbert, I won't miss that defense at all. I hope Hibbert reads the board and see's this post.

    I WANT YOU OFF MY TEAM ROY!!!!

  5. #179

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratking View Post
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    I forgot Dragic was a third team all-NBA selection. In that case, no way we can get him.
    Roy was 2nd team all-NBA Defensive squad...but again, according to others we have no assets anyone would want...

  6. #180

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    What this really boils down to is matchups, and specifically how we match up vs Miami. On paper, Miami is weak at PG with Chalmers, and should be exposed. For whatever reason, George Hill has not out-played Chalmers, and Miami knows we cannot win the PG matchup. Now with Dragic at PG, Miami has their hands full trying to win that matchup
    Disagree. And I'm not happy with Hill AT ALL. But Hill smoked Chalmers this year. Maybe that was more about how bad Chalmers was...but Hill easily outplayed him. Pretty sure that was the consensus as well among the experts and talking heads.

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkster View Post
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    Disagree. And I'm not happy with Hill AT ALL. But Hill smoked Chalmers this year. Maybe that was more about how bad Chalmers was...but Hill easily outplayed him. Pretty sure that was the consensus as well among the experts and talking heads.
    Chalmers put the MIA in Miami this past post-season, but he definitely made a positive impact in the previous two series against the Pacers.

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  10. #182

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I like the direction of going for a young, athletic player in Biyombo. Unfortunately, I think he is officially a lottery bust
    I never thought much of him whenhe was being drafted. Project project project nothing.

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Could just be my perception, but it looked like Roy would only hustle on defense if he was scoring the ball. That is my only beef with Roy, that he cares about scoring points. When engaged, Roy is terrific on the defensive end, and we cannot dismiss his impact when he shows up defensively
    This is part of why the team tried to get him the ball early in games. It was the hope that doing this would not only get him going offensively, but that it would carry over to his defense.

  12. #184

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    Think a younger, more athletic Samuel Dalembert as his ceiling.



    If he could be a young Dalembert, that would be great, but just remember MJ doesn't have a good record with drafted players. I'd be leary if he could climb to Dalembert status. Might be worth a chance as a b/u 5 to Mahinmi if Hibbert gets traded.

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Game has changed a lot over the years. Ball handling duties are not only inclusive with PG's. I would argue Lebron James was more of a PG than Mario Chalmers. Lebron ran the offense
    Same thing with the other two wings he mentioned, Kobe and MJ.

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Not all Centers are able to defend the PnR. If the vast majority of the Centers can defend the PnR and Hibbert can't, I'll consider that a real weakness in his game cuz he can't do what other Centers do. I agree that it sucks that he can't defend the PnR....but I'm not going to knock Hibbert for something that not every Center can do themselves.


    Isn't our Defense designed to allow those 10 feet floaters? Don't we give up the Mid-range jumpshot or anything in that area cuz the defense is designed that way? The defense is designed to funnel the offense to the Center where Teams either run into Center or they take the wide open floater or mid-range jumpshot at the FT line.


    The Centers are supposed to be protecting the paint. I don't expect Hibbert to close out on a Perimeter shooting Player when Hibbert is supposed to stay within 5 feet from the rim. You're asking a Center ( what's worse, someone that is already slow ) to cover a large amount of space. Hibbert certainly can't do that......and I doubt that the majority of the Centers can do the same. If he is able to get within range of doing so.....great....if he can't....I'm not going to knock him for that.
    This is why I think using a zone at times would help this team.

  15. #187

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    I wont miss a 7'2" center missing layups and being to scared to dunk the ball
    This....and I won't miss his 15 foot jump hooks either......

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    This is part of why the team tried to get him the ball early in games. It was the hope that doing this would not only get him going offensively, but that it would carry over to his defense.
    You cannot have this on your team. Roy should be ready to bust his *** on defense, regardless of what is going on offensively. This, in my opinion, is a big problem that needs to be addressed.
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by P_George View Post
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    The problem is, you're using purely stats around the rim. That's it. How about how many times he got beat on the PnR?
    Actually, opposing teams tended to station Roy's man on the opposite side of their PnR and had West's man set the screen. They really didn't want Roy to be the one guarding the PnR since he had excellent numbers there as well.

    I clearly remember Since_81 posting an article that said that out of all the DPOY candidates Hibbert was the one that had the best defensive numbers against the PnR per Synergy.

    The thought that Roy is not a good PnR defender is a misconception that is not supported by any kind of statistical evidence.
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by indyaway View Post
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    Roy was 2nd team all-NBA Defensive squad...but again, according to others we have no assets anyone would want...
    NBA All-Defensive Team voters are all blindered Pacer fans.

    As I understand it, none of the Pacers players are any good except for Lance, who we aren't willing to spend enough money on, and maybe Paul George (who is probably overrated). The coach is horrible. The playoff run means nothing because we're in the East. The regular season means nothing because we're in the East. No other team wants anything but to laugh at our roster. We're doomed to lose in the second round forever because we're not bad enough to be in the lottery in the East.

    Did I get that right?
    BillS

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  21. #191

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    NBA All-Defensive Team voters are all blindered Pacer fans.

    As I understand it, none of the Pacers players are any good except for Lance, who we aren't willing to spend enough money on, and maybe Paul George (who is probably overrated). The coach is horrible. The playoff run means nothing because we're in the East. The regular season means nothing because we're in the East. No other team wants anything but to laugh at our roster. We're doomed to lose in the second round forever because we're not bad enough to be in the lottery in the East.

    Did I get that right?
    You left out how we would need to give up a decades worth of lottery unprotected picks before anyone agrees to trade for any of our players. (Ok, exception for over-rated PG who teams will consider if packaged with a second rounder...assuming we take a bad contract bad as well)

  22. #192

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    NBA All-Defensive Team voters are all blindered Pacer fans.

    As I understand it, none of the Pacers players are any good except for Lance, who we aren't willing to spend enough money on, and maybe Paul George (who is probably overrated). The coach is horrible. The playoff run means nothing because we're in the East. The regular season means nothing because we're in the East. No other team wants anything but to laugh at our roster. We're doomed to lose in the second round forever because we're not bad enough to be in the lottery in the East.

    Did I get that right?
    You forgot how we overpaid for C.J. Miles which proves how bad our FO is at handling free agency, even though OKC wanted him for the same price.

  23. #193
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    You would miss Hibbert.

    Our team would miss Hibbert.

    I was very let down by him this year, just like everyone else was. That said, its silly to ignore how much his defense changes a game.
    What good is defense if you don't secure the rebound and are so abysmal on the offensive end?

    I am a Hibbert supporter but at what point does top defender turn into average defender because of how much he hurts the Pacers in other areas?
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 07-03-2014 at 07:03 PM.

  24. #194

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    What good is defense if you don't secure the rebound and are so abysmal on the offensive end?
    Roy is a competent offensive center most of the time, but the end to his season last year was awful, so now he officially sucks and can no longer do anything and has no hope of ever regaining any form of an offensive game. Am I hearing that right?

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Roy is a competent offensive center most of the time, but the end to his season last year was awful, so now he officially sucks and can no longer do anything and has no hope of ever regaining any form of an offensive game. Am I hearing that right?
    Ha, not sure who you're hearing that from because that's certainly not what I said at all.

  26. #196

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Ha, not sure who you're hearing that from because that's certainly not what I said at all.
    Well you talked about how bad he hurts the Pacers in the other areas outside of defense, which includes his offensive game, which really has never been bad before this past half season (The year before he had a wrist injury which he blamed his early season struggles). The comment wasn't solely directed at you, but moreso everyone who talks about how bad Hibbert is and ship him out as soon as possible mindset.

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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Well you talked about how bad he hurts the Pacers in the other areas outside of defense, which includes his offensive game, which really has never been bad before this past half season (The year before he had a wrist injury which he blamed his early season struggles). The comment wasn't solely directed at you, but moreso everyone who talks about how bad Hibbert is and ship him out as soon as possible mindset.
    Let me say I'm 100% okay with staying the course and hoping Hibbert turns it around. But why would I be confident about it?

    You said most of the year Hibbert was a competent offensive player. Shooting around 40% as a big around the basket simply means that's not true.

    I'm not talking about shipping Hibby out for nothing. Unless you get something quality you hope and pray that the real Hibbert comes back. But when something good comes along, lets not trot out his defensive numbers without acknowledging that combined with his overall play, Hibbert had an average season.

    Let that sink in, it can be argued that an All Star, All NBA season was average because Hibbert finished SO poorly. It's very concerning.
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 07-03-2014 at 07:19 PM.

  28. #198
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    We need to let go of the idea that without Hibbert the Pacers are not a contender.

  29. #199
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    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Let me say I'm 100% okay with staying the course and hoping Hibbert turns it around. But why would I be confident about it?

    You said most of the year Hibbert was a competent offensive player. Shooting around 40% as a big around the basket simply means that's not true.

    I'm not talking about shipping Hibby out for nothing. Unless you get something quality you hope and pray that the real Hibbert comes back. But when something good comes along, lets not trot out his defensive numbers without acknowledging that combine with his overall play, Hibbert is average.
    Average players don't go to multiple All-Stars, plus in the runnings for DPOY.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  30. #200

    Default Re: Pacers trying to deal for Dragic

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Let me say I'm 100% okay with staying the course and hoping Hibbert turns it around. But why would I be confident about it?

    You said most of the year Hibbert was a competent offensive player. Shooting around 40% as a big around the basket simply means that's not true.

    I'm not talking about shipping Hibby out for nothing. Unless you get something quality you hope and pray that the real Hibbert comes back. But when something good comes along, lets not trot out his defensive numbers without acknowledging that combine with his overall play, Hibbert is average.
    Hibbert ended up shooting 44% from the field, and yes while that is bad, he was shooting around 47% before his big slump, which is good for Hibbert knowing most of his shots are tough hooks. I think there is no doubt we will be getting a better Hibbert than what we got at the end of the year, and we may even get all-star Hibbert back.

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