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Thread: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

  1. #1051

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    I think Lance values himself way over 8 mil a year, and doesn't want to commit long term to that number. I think he wants a couple of years to prove himself and then hit free agency again with the hopes that an increased Luxury Tax in 2 years means higher contracts being thrown around.

    I don't think Larry wants to budge from the 5 year offer because he knows its a good offer and he could lock Lance in for 5 years at that price, instead of lowering it to two years and then entering a bidding war with teams if Lance were to break out.

    Also we have no idea how much is guaranteed in the 5 year offer, it could be that starting in year 3 is Team Option, so Lance wanting a two year deal wouldn't really be less guaranteed money for either party.

    Hasn't it been determined that the new CBA only allows options in the last year of a contract?

  2. #1052
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    I really dont' understand this $81mil hard cap and illegal to go over it bit. There are teams spending way over that, and I thought the Pacers are allowed to go over the cap to pay for their own players.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I really dont' understand this $81mil hard cap and illegal to go over it bit. There are teams spending way over that, and I thought the Pacers are allowed to go over the cap to pay for their own players.
    Teams can go over the cap to sign players that they have Birds Rights on. Non-Bird rights players, or FA's from other teams have to be signed within the salary cap.
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Much of what you said has some validity, BUT
    1) Beat writers can't be the best source of info, as we've seen in Indy in the past.
    2) Any of the teams can trade players in order to accomodate bringing in Stephenson. The Pacers are
    going to have to, so why won't other teams? If a team wants a player bad enough, they will do what's necessary to get them.
    1) As far as beat writers go, their credibility should be based on what they've done individually and not the name of their job. Some are a lot better than others.

    2) Sure, other teams can make accommodations for Stephenson, but nobody seems to be remotely interested.

  5. #1055
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Teams can go over the cap to sign players that they have Birds Rights on. Non-Bird rights players, or FA's from other teams have to be signed within the salary cap.
    Right but I thought we have his bird rights, hence the 5 year contract.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  6. #1056

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket View Post
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    The article stats that the Pacers can't exceed 80,829,000 mil at any time. It wasn't directly stated in the article, so does that mean if they do they will HAVE to pay the Luxury Tax. Am I understanding this correctly?

  7. #1057
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
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    1) As far as beat writers go, their credibility should be based on what they've done individually and not the name of their job. Some are a lot better than others.
    Luckily the Star doesn't have beat writers. They have Insiders! #credible
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  8. #1058

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The article stats that the Pacers can't exceed 80,829,000 mil at any time. It wasn't directly stated in the article, so does that mean if they do they will HAVE to pay the Luxury Tax. Am I understanding this correctly?
    I think thats wrong.. I have never seen a number where you have to pay the tax if you exceed it at the beginning of the season. I believe what he is stating is that there is no way to get below that number if you exceed it via trade or stretch provision or simply cutting Scola.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The article stats that the Pacers can't exceed 80,829,000 mil at any time. It wasn't directly stated in the article, so does that mean if they do they will HAVE to pay the Luxury Tax. Am I understanding this correctly?
    Yes. This is because they used the full MLE to sign players. Going over that amount would mean they only qualified for the taxpayer MLE, so they can't sign anyone who would put them over that amount at any given time. It's why it is different from the tax which doesn't kick in until the end of the season.
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I think thats wrong.. I have never seen a number where you have to pay the tax if you exceed it at the beginning of the season. I believe what he is stating is that there is no way to get below that number if you exceed it via trade or stretch provision or simply cutting Scola.
    See above. It's not about the tax, it's about the value of the exception they are allowed to use.
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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I really dont' understand this $81mil hard cap and illegal to go over it bit. There are teams spending way over that, and I thought the Pacers are allowed to go over the cap to pay for their own players.
    Side effect of having different MLE's for tax teams and non-tax teams. Non-tax teams have a larger MLE (~$5m, up to 4 years), while tax teams have to make do with a smaller one (~$3m, up to 3 years). So if a team spends the full non-tax MLE, they are effectively saying "we're not going to be a tax team" so they get hard capped. The hard cap is not at the tax line though (which would have made sense), it's at the "apron", which is the tax line + $4m.

    TL;DR. Spending the MLE as we did for CJ Miles puts us under the hard cap rule under the new CBA. We can't exceed the $81m line at any time during the season.

    EDIT: Or, what BillS said

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  14. #1062
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The article stats that the Pacers can't exceed 80,829,000 mil at any time. It wasn't directly stated in the article, so does that mean if they do they will HAVE to pay the Luxury Tax. Am I understanding this correctly?
    The way I understand it is they cannot exceed that number for any reason at any time. It would be illegal, regardless of the tax rules. It is a totally separate rule.

  15. #1063

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I really dont' understand this $81mil hard cap and illegal to go over it bit. There are teams spending way over that, and I thought the Pacers are allowed to go over the cap to pay for their own players.
    There are two forms of the mid-level exception. The one that non-taxpayers use that is larger, and the smaller one that luxury tax teams have available to them. The question comes though about which one a team can use. Can a team use the larger exception if they are not over the luxury tax at the time? Can they use the larger exception and then go under the luxury tax during the season before it's calculated? There was lots of potential for abuse.

    The NBA because of this compromised. If a team uses the larger mid-level exception, they cannot go more than four million above the luxury tax line at any point of the season. If they limit themselves to the lower taxpayer MLE, there is no restriction. The Pacers have used the higher MLE on Miles and Rudez, so they cannot break that salary line at any point until next year.

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  17. #1064
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Teams left with major cap space:
    CHA- beat writer assures us there's no interest
    HOU- only 8M or so under the cap by my count, with ~3 spots to fill, Harden holds down the SG spot, no fit
    PHO- have a boatload of guards- likely no interest
    UTA- Burke, Burks, Exum- also no need for another G

    PHI, MIL, ATL, DET all make some sense, but only ATL seems to be a winning situation, which Lance or his agent mentioned as being important. But they like Schroeder, Teague, Mack, and Korver so I'm not sure they're a fit.

    I can see us winning this by the process of elimination very soon, 1-2 weeks tops.
    Utah Also has Hayward who might play some 2 when Rodney Hood gets some time at the 3.

    Yeah I came to this conclusion a while ago, it is going to tough for Lance to get big money anywhere unless teams are ready to ship off contracts, or if he is ready to play for a losing squad.

    The Pistons might not be a bad option, but they just gave Meeks a 3 year 18 million dollar contract and still have to pay Monroe, so I could see them passing on Lance too. I only bring them up because Detroit is a team that is coming up, a long way to go but they are coming up.
    Why so SERIOUS

  18. #1065

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    See above. It's not about the tax, it's about the value of the exception they are allowed to use.
    Even if you have Bird rights? I guess it really doesn't matter since that number won't be exceeded if we sign Lance.

  19. #1066

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Utah Also has Hayward who might play some 2 when Rodney Hood gets some time at the 3.

    Yeah I came to this conclusion a while ago, it is going to tough for Lance to get big money anywhere unless teams are ready to ship off contracts, or if he is ready to play for a losing squad.

    The Pistons might not be a bad option, but they just gave Meeks a 3 year 18 million dollar contract and still have to pay Monroe, so I could see them passing on Lance too. I only bring them up because Detroit is a team that is coming up, a long way to go but they are coming up.


    The Floor Spacing with Jennings, Stephenson, Smith, Monroe, and Drummond would be lolworthy.
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  20. #1067
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    I still believe he'll be a Hornet with an average salary of at least $10 million per year.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  21. #1068
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    1070thefan has something referenced about Lances latest Instagram, but its an audio link about them talking about it. Anyone know what its about?

  22. #1069
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    are sixers an option?

  23. #1070
    Get well soon PG! Believe_in_blue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    1070thefan has something referenced about Lances latest Instagram, but its an audio link about them talking about it. Anyone know what its about?
    He posted a selfie with a caption about how his previous mistakes shouldn't define his future or something.

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  25. #1071
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Even if you have Bird rights? I guess it really doesn't matter since that number won't be exceeded if we sign Lance.
    That is the problem. Current salaries + Lance's offer takes the team above that limit. So, if Lance actually accepts that offer, then someone else has to go. One way or another.

  26. #1072
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Below is his instagram from today...

    "We all make mistakes, have struggles, and even regret things in our past. But you are not your mistakes, you are not your struggles, and you are here NOW with the power to shape your day and your future."


    Last edited by The Sleeze; 07-15-2014 at 12:42 PM.

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  28. #1073

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    are sixers an option?
    I would not expect them to offer any more than 3 years, when they have to start paying non-rookie salaries first to MCW, then Noel, then Embiid.

    Plus MCW and Lance seems to be a duplication of skills (and of liabilities, particualarly with respect to perimeter shooting)
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  29. #1074
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Lance's camp seems pretty desperate at this point.

  30. #1075
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Even if you have Bird rights? I guess it really doesn't matter since that number won't be exceeded if we sign Lance.
    Yes, because Bird rights apply to your own players.

    The issue isn't that Lance is being signed for a larger amount even though they are above the cap (Bird Rights). The issue is that if the salary is over the $80M+ they aren't allowed to use the Full MLE on another player - but they have already used it, therefore they are not allowed to sign ANYONE to a contract that would cause the payroll to exceed that amount.

    Now, I'm not certain where the Miles being S&T'd option comes, but I think that would avoid it. Did CJ and Damjan already sign their contracts (as I recall they are the ones who total the Full MLE)?
    BillS

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