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Thread: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

  1. #1026
    Member ilive4sports's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    I feel like if another team was going to sign Lance it would have already happened.

  2. #1027
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think that Dallas is out of the picture.....so we're looking at Charlotte, Lakers and ATL?

    What's the current projected Cap situation for the remaining Teams of interest?
    Lakers are out.

    Teams left with major cap space: CHA, ATL, HOU, PHO, MIL, DET, UTA, PHI. They're all capable of $10m+ per year offers, though whether they WANT to is another question.

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  4. #1028
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    What I find interesting is no team to date has offered Lance anything. Not even a two year contract with an opt out in year two?
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Lakers are out.

    Teams left with major cap space: CHA, ATL, HOU, PHO, MIL, DET, UTA, PHI. They're all capable of $10m+ per year offers, though whether they WANT to is another question.
    The pistons only have major cap space if they let Monroe go. Won't happen.

    Outside of that, they signed five players already. Their offseason shopping spree is over.
    Last edited by Kstat; 07-15-2014 at 07:33 AM.

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  6. #1030

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Lakers are out.

    Teams left with major cap space: CHA, ATL, HOU, PHO, MIL, DET, UTA, PHI. They're all capable of $10m+ per year offers, though whether they WANT to is another question.

    You sure about Houston? After they just signed Ariza? I doubt Lance wants to go to Utah. And he wouldn't start over Hayward or Burke anyways. Milwaukee is a losing situation, and guards go there to die. Lance should look that up before he thinks about signing with them if they make him an offer. Philly is at least 5 years from making any noise in the East, and Phoenix after I. Thomas, Tucker, and then having to get Bledsoe done....... I don't think they'll have enough to sign Lance. Plus where's he gonna play?


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  7. #1031
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Guess Lance should have hired an agent that has more than one NBA client. This guy is a terrible agent. Guess Lance when to the bottom of the barrel looking for the cheapest agent he could find. I'm surprised that PG's Agent isnt the guy representing him.
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    I don't know how this all works.

    If Lance turned down IND's offer, can he go back and accept it? And do the Pacer's have cap space for that contract now that they have signed other players?

  9. #1033

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    What I find interesting is no team to date has offered Lance anything. Not even a two year contract with an opt out in year two?
    None that we know of which doesn't mean he hasn't been offered anything.

  10. #1034
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The pistons only have major cap space if they let Monroe go. Won't happen.
    Yeah, you're right. Didn't check that carefully. MIA technically still has major cap space too, but that's probably going to Wade and Haslem. I forgot ORL earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhoLovesYaBaby? View Post
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    I don't know how this all works.

    If Lance turned down IND's offer, can he go back and accept it? And do the Pacer's have cap space for that contract now that they have signed other players?
    As long as IND doesn't take back their offer, then yes Lance can accept it any time. The Pacers don't actually need cap space for Lance, since we have his Bird rights, but signing him to the offer we made would put us over the tax line. If/when he signs, we would probably then make some cost cutting moves to get under the tax.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Yeah, you're right. Didn't check that carefully. MIA technically still has major cap space too, but that's probably going to Wade and Haslem. I forgot ORL earlier.



    As long as IND doesn't take back their offer, then yes Lance can accept it any time. The Pacers don't actually need cap space for Lance, since we have his Bird rights, but signing him to the offer we made would put us over the tax line. If/when he signs, we would probably then make some cost cutting moves to get under the tax.
    Thanks for that.

    I could go along with Lance back on the roster.

  12. #1036
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    As long as IND doesn't take back their offer, then yes Lance can accept it any time. The Pacers don't actually need cap space for Lance, since we have his Bird rights, but signing him to the offer we made would put us over the tax line. If/when he signs, we would probably then make some cost cutting moves to get under the tax.
    Not quite that easy. We're going to have cut some salary to fit him under the hard cap:

    http://8points9seconds.com/2014/07/1...witter#!bfud9Z

    Something is going to have to give (Probably one of Ian/Scola/Copeland) to retain Lance.
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  14. #1037
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Not quite that easy. We're going to have cut some salary to fit him under the hard cap:

    http://8points9seconds.com/2014/07/1...witter#!bfud9Z

    Something is going to have to give (Probably one of Ian/Scola/Copeland) to retain Lance.
    Oops. Yeah, Tim is right. We've moved past the hard cap number with Lavoy's signing.

    I don't think it's a big difference though. I never believed that we'll pay the tax, so it's a matter of getting under the tax sooner rather than later. So we'll cut some salary first, then sign Lance. Waiving Scola's partially guaranteed deal still seems like a given to me.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Oops. Yeah, Tim is right. We've moved past the hard cap number with Lavoy's signing.

    I don't think it's a big difference though. I never believed that we'll pay the tax, so it's a matter of getting under the tax sooner rather than later. So we'll cut some salary first, then sign Lance. Waiving Scola's partially guaranteed deal still seems like a given to me.
    Unfortunately we keep seeing reports that Scola is in the teams plans for next season.

  16. #1039

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Lakers are out.

    Teams left with major cap space: CHA, ATL, HOU, PHO, MIL, DET, UTA, PHI. They're all capable of $10m+ per year offers, though whether they WANT to is another question.

    With 7 or so teams still having cap space why would Stephenson be in a hurry to sign the Pacers offer?
    I look for this to drag out, so those that want a quick signing better get use to it as long a another team has cap space.

  17. #1040

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Yeah, you're right. Didn't check that carefully. MIA technically still has major cap space too, but that's probably going to Wade and Haslem. I forgot ORL earlier.

    WOW, I thought I had kept up with the teams who still had cap left, so this is a real eye opener for me. Thanks for the update!!

  18. #1041
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    It could be that Lance and his agent are trying to get the Pacers to lower the amount of years on the deal, and Larry is standing firm with the 5 year offer.

  19. #1042
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    With 7 or so teams still having cap space why would Stephenson be in a hurry to sign the Pacers offer?
    I look for this to drag out, so those that want a quick signing better get use to it as long a another team has cap space.
    Keep in mind that some of these teams are planning not to spend at all (like Philly, for sure).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
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    It could be that Lance and his agent are trying to get the Pacers to lower the amount of years on the deal, and Larry is standing firm with the 5 year offer.
    So you think Lance wants less guaranteed money? Usually teams would be happy to accommodate that

  20. #1043

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Teams left with major cap space:
    CHA- beat writer assures us there's no interest
    HOU- only 8M or so under the cap by my count, with ~3 spots to fill, Harden holds down the SG spot, no fit
    PHO- have a boatload of guards- likely no interest
    UTA- Burke, Burks, Exum- also no need for another G

    PHI, MIL, ATL, DET all make some sense, but only ATL seems to be a winning situation, which Lance or his agent mentioned as being important. But they like Schroeder, Teague, Mack, and Korver so I'm not sure they're a fit.

    I can see us winning this by the process of elimination very soon, 1-2 weeks tops.
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Who gets overpaid first: Lance or Evan Turner?

    Place your bets!

  22. #1045

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Some might say that pretty much any contract at all is overpaying Evan Turner
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    That might be the best part ^

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    HOU- only 8M or so under the cap by my count, with ~3 spots to fill, Harden holds down the SG spot, no fit
    Are you counting Asik in Houston's salary? He's already unofficially traded (with no salary back) to the Pellies, the actual trade should happen any time soon. Their contracts are Howard, Harden, and a bunch of low $ contracts, so they should have considerably more than $8m in salary cap left.

    But I don't think Houston is a likely suitor either. They've made it clear they're after bigger fish.

  26. #1048
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    So you think Lance wants less guaranteed money? Usually teams would be happy to accommodate that
    I think Lance values himself way over 8 mil a year, and doesn't want to commit long term to that number. I think he wants a couple of years to prove himself and then hit free agency again with the hopes that an increased Luxury Tax in 2 years means higher contracts being thrown around.

    I don't think Larry wants to budge from the 5 year offer because he knows its a good offer and he could lock Lance in for 5 years at that price, instead of lowering it to two years and then entering a bidding war with teams if Lance were to break out.

    Also we have no idea how much is guaranteed in the 5 year offer, it could be that starting in year 3 is Team Option, so Lance wanting a two year deal wouldn't really be less guaranteed money for either party.
    Last edited by The Sleeze; 07-15-2014 at 11:08 AM.

  27. #1049
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    didn't see this posted yet:

    http://8points9seconds.com/2014/07/1...enson/#!bfwBRc

    Two weeks into Free Agency – and five days after the July moratorium ended – Lance Stephenson, the Pacers, and their fans are still trying to find out where the quirky, talented wing will continue his NBA career. While we have no new information from either camp, events over the past few days have at least eliminated some possibilities. Friday, it became apparent that the Lakers were no longer in the hunt. When Houston chose not to match Dallas’ three-year, $46 million offer sheet to Chandler Parsons, the Mavs dropped out of the market.

    However, several teams still have the means to beat the Pacers’ offer. Charlotte is back in play after losing Gordon Hayward, but beat reporter Rick Bonnell maintains they aren’t interested. Atlanta has enough space, as do potentially Houston and perhaps Phoenix. For teams with space, it is simply a matter of will.

    The biggest threat to the Pacers remains – in my opinion – a big dollar, short term contract. Indiana’s offer of five years and $44 million only pays Lance roughly $7.7 million next season, and a combined $15.9 million in the first two. A two-year, $20 million offer gets Stephenson 25% more money in these years. I’m sure none of us doubt Stephenson’s faith in both his talent and indestructibility, so should we doubt his faith in his ability to land another big contract in two years? Another big contract signed after a new TV deal is inked?

    In any case, there’s a lot we don’t know about the actual machinations of the market surrounding Stephenson’s next deal. However, thanks to Mark Deeks of Shamsports, we do know a lot about the Pacer cap situation and the dilemmas they are facing.


    Mark’s right, but the Pacers have an even more immediate issue regarding their offer to Lance Stephenson. Their current payroll makes signing Lance to that deal illegal.

    July 15th sitch

    On July 3rd, we outlined the Pacer Cap situation at that time. We also noted that – due to details in the 2011 CBA – Indiana was actually hard capped at $4 million above the tax threshold, which has since been officially locked at $76.829 million. That cap update indicated that the Pacers would be a couple thousand dollars above that hard cap figure, but that’s so small as to be a rounding error.

    However, Lavoy Allen was signed in the intervening two weeks, and now the Pacers have to clear almost $1.1 million before Lance can put his name to the current offer.

    Now, this is ostensibly a minor detail. Indiana can reduce their payroll in any number of ways. The most direct is to waive Luis Scola, who is only guaranteed $1.9 million of his $4.9 million salary. However, what is important is the timing .

    Barring something unforeseen, the Pacers will not pay the tax for this – or any other – season. So, as a practical matter, Larry Bird will be looking to keep his total payroll under the $76.829 million threshold. However, the deadline for being under that number is the last day of the 2014-15 season. Conversely, Indiana cannot exceed the $80.829 million hard cap for any reason or any amount of time.

    If Lance’s contract fit under the hard cap, then Bird and Kevin Pritchard could spend the rest of the summer looking for a salary-saving trade that would get Indiana under the tax. They could even wait until the trade deadline, but it would likely be their preference to have this resolved before opening night. Since it doesn’t – and the offer remains on the table despite their current payroll – Indiana will have to act immediately, should Lance accept.

    For those watching, the Lance Stephenson Free Agency experience has moved at a snail’s pace. However, if Stephenson chooses to be back home again in Indiana, then things will start to move very quickly, indeed.
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  29. #1050

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Teams left with major cap space:
    CHA- beat writer assures us there's no interest
    HOU- only 8M or so under the cap by my count, with ~3 spots to fill, Harden holds down the SG spot, no fit
    PHO- have a boatload of guards- likely no interest
    UTA- Burke, Burks, Exum- also no need for another G

    PHI, MIL, ATL, DET all make some sense, but only ATL seems to be a winning situation, which Lance or his agent mentioned as being important. But they like Schroeder, Teague, Mack, and Korver so I'm not sure they're a fit.

    I can see us winning this by the process of elimination very soon, 1-2 weeks tops.


    Much of what you said has some validity, BUT
    1) Beat writers can't be the best source of info, as we've seen in Indy in the past.
    2) Any of the teams can trade players in order to accomodate bringing in Stephenson. The Pacers are
    going to have to, so why won't other teams? If a team wants a player bad enough, they will do what's necessary to get them.

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