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Thread: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

  1. #876
    Member presto123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by eldubious View Post
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    Does anyone else think the Lance for Dragic in a sign in trade is realistic because I can't see any other reason why Lance hasn't signed yet.
    Don't know how realistic but I hope that is the case.

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  3. #877

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    That's what it takes to gain an advantage in signing another team's player.
    Right.

    Also..teams tend to make offers on good young players.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I think Hill is a 15-17 ppg type guy at the 2 spot or at the 1 spot with an increased role, which is why I wouldn't go over 9m per for Lance. I want him back, just not desperate to make it happen.
    I agree, In 2012-13 when Hill had a larger role, he averaged 14.7 ppg.

  5. #879
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    How do we know Lance hasn't had other offers or feelers? The Pacers set the initial market value so maybe any offers have been same ballpark, just structured differently and there's been no need to 'advertise' that by the agent. Or maybe he's giving the Pacers a chance to counter an offer and things are in the serious stage so there are no leaks which could hurt negotiations (with either team)?
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I'm more concerned about why no one offered him more. (So far). Most thought the Pacers offer was a fair to low ball offer. It's just another one of those hints.

    I want him back if we get first half of last season Lance back. Otherwise..no thanks.
    Isn't the fact that his own team made him a nice offer more important than the fact that teams who don't know him haven't? Makes it seem like media perception isn't quite the reality of what goes on behind closed doors, I.e. the Pacers know that while Lance was a problem last year, he was nowhere near the only reason.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Isn't the fact that his own team made him a nice offer more important than the fact that teams who don't know him haven't? Makes it seem like media perception isn't quite the reality of what goes on behind closed doors, I.e. the Pacers know that while Lance was a problem last year, he was nowhere near the only reason.
    Didn't Hayword just sign a contract for quite a bit more than Lance too? Half the board here thinks Lance is worth the max, and he can't get Hayword money from the rest of the league?

    You really don't think it's strange that we've got a 23 year old kid, who led the league in triple doubles, was a huge asset to the Pacers success in the first half of the season, and has shown tremendous improvement each year he's been in the league..that no one has offered him something. We would have known if a team offered him something, those insiders know everything.

    Second, we all know how stubborn Larry can get about things.

    Honestly, for me..it suggests a few things..it may not to others, but it does for me.

    edit: Changed this because I was wrong about Caron's deal.
    Last edited by Sookie; 07-14-2014 at 12:56 AM.

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  11. #882

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Butler's isn't 9 million per year. It's 9 million over 2 years.

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  13. #883

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Charlotte has been a laughing stock for half a decade, but then they are suddenly oracles when they don't go after Lance.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Charlotte has been a laughing stock for half a decade, but then they are suddenly oracles when they don't go after Lance.

    Neither has any of the other 28 teams, so I guess they must all be wrong as well. Maybe there is something there, and some Pacer fans just refuse to see it because the player wears Blue n Gold.

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  17. #885

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    \
    You really don't think it's strange that we've got a 23 year old kid, who led the league in triple doubles, was a huge asset to the Pacers success in the first half of the season, and has shown tremendous improvement each year he's been in the league..that no one has offered him something. We would have known if a team offered him something, those insiders know everything.
    .
    That's what has me concerned.

  18. #886

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Neither has any of the other 28 teams, so I guess they must all be wrong as well. Maybe there is something there, and some Pacer fans just refuse to see it because the player wears Blue n Gold.
    Not all 28 other teams have cap space. Very few teams have enough cap space and they valued experienced guys over a 23 year old. Some guys just want to hate on Lance. You can say, "It's not hate when people just don't think he's an All-Star", but when people act like there is something wrong with him that is scaring off other teams and compare him to Artest, that's hate.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Caron Butler just signed a two year 9 mil per year contract. It's shorter than Lance's, but more per year. Think about that. Didn't Hayword just sign a contract for quite a bit more than Lance too? Half the board here thinks Lance is worth the max, and he can't get Caron or Hayword money from the rest of the league?

    You really don't think it's strange that we've got a 23 year old kid, who led the league in triple doubles, was a huge asset to the Pacers success in the first half of the season, and has shown tremendous improvement each year he's been in the league..that no one has offered him something. We would have known if a team offered him something, those insiders know everything.

    Second, we all know how stubborn Larry can get about things.

    Honestly, for me..it suggests a few things..it may not to others, but it does for me.
    I agree with you that this does suggest that Teams may be weary of signing Lance to a long term contract.......but that does not suggest that there is no interest from Teams for his services. It's obvious that he is some Team's Plan E. The problem is that Plan E often means that Teams can become desperate...and desperate means that they are willing to overpay to get their man.
    Last edited by CableKC; 07-13-2014 at 11:49 PM.
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  20. #888

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Right.

    Also..teams tend to make offers on good young players.
    Lance has an offer......

    Sometimes good players with questionable attitudes sign smaller deals and then flourish. Look at Chauncey Billups.

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  22. #889

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Butler's isn't 9 million per year. It's 9 million over 2 years.
    Okay, thanks. The way it was written on twitter it seemed like it was 9 million per year. I mean, honestly..if it was..that would have just been Detroit being really stupid, but my thinking is you would have thought they'd be really stupid with a young guy with potential instead of..you know..broken down Caron.

  23. #890

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Not all 28 other teams have cap space. Very few teams have enough cap space and they valued experienced guys over a 23 year old. Some guys just want to hate on Lance. You can say, "It's not hate when people just don't think he's an All-Star", but when people act like there is something wrong with him that is scaring off other teams and compare him to Artest, that's hate.

    HATE? The most over used word on this form. Haters is a label people put on others who don't agree with their views. It's a way of trying to discourage people not to disagree with their opinions.


    You think experience is what kept other teams from being interested in Stephenson? How do you explain Hayward and Parsons? It sure isn't experience! You need to take your Blue and Gold glasses off and understand what the rest of the NBA saw Stephenson's antics, and their wanting no part of them or the rumors of him being a problem within the team. Bottom line is teams shy away from players with problems or percieved problems. Stephenson created his situation and has no one to blame but himself. Quit being a homer, pull your head out of the sand, and accept Stephenson has issues other teams aren't interested in dealing with.

    Atlanta and Charlotte still have cap, so it must be they just want experience, huh? LOL!

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  25. #891
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    A history of Lance criticism

    1. He's going to be out of the league soon. Pacers are going to regret giving him a 4 year rookie deal.
    2. Two years in the league and the guy can't even get off the bench. This guy is never going to make it.
    3. He'll be back on the bench as soon as Danny gets back from injury. Just you wait.
    4. He's a better player than Danny individually, but Danny is better for team chemistry.
    5. We should trade him now because he's going to get overpaid next season. No way he's worth more than midlevel.
    6. Lance is really very talented, but it would take a huge contract to keep him. A contract like that will hamper us for years.
    7. Lance hasn't been able to get an outrageous bid like what Hayward and Parsons have received. There must be something wrong with him.

    The first few may have been reasonable, but that last one is a huge reach. Sorry, not buying it.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    HATE? The most over used word on this form. Haters is a label people put on others who don't agree with their views. It's a way of trying to discourage people not to disagree with their opinions.


    You think experience is what kept other teams from being interested in Stephenson? How do you explain Hayward and Parsons? It sure isn't experience! You need to take your Blue and Gold glasses off and understand what the rest of the NBA saw Stephenson's antics, and their wanting no part of them or the rumors of him being a problem within the team. Bottom line is teams shy away from players with problems or percieved problems. Stephenson created his situation and has no one to blame but himself. Quit being a homer, pull your head out of the sand, and accept Stephenson has issues other teams aren't interested in dealing with.

    Atlanta and Charlotte still have cap, so it must be they just want experience, huh? LOL!
    You're right, he created a situation where someone is gonna pay him a ridiculous amount of money to play basketball next year. What a tool!

    A hater is someone who can't see the forest for the trees.
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  29. #893
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    A history of Lance criticism

    1. He's going to be out of the league soon. Pacers are going to regret giving him a 4 year rookie deal.
    2. Two years in the league and the guy can't even get off the bench. This guy is never going to make it.
    3. He'll be back on the bench as soon as Danny gets back from injury. Just you wait.
    4. He's a better player than Danny individually, but Danny is better for team chemistry.
    5. We should trade him now because he's going to get overpaid next season. No way he's worth more than midlevel.
    6. Lance is really very talented, but it would take a huge contract to keep him. A contract like that will hamper us for years.
    7. Lance hasn't been able to get an outrageous bid like what Hayward and Parsons have received. There must be something wrong with him.

    The first few may have been reasonable, but that last one is a huge reach. Sorry, not buying it.
    That's the thing about Lance on the board, people have always doubted him, and has never had a fair shake. There has always been a reason to rip the guy. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't want a 23 year old future star back on the team. The other teams not offering him contracts must have their heads up their asses
    David "And One" West

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  31. #894
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    That's the thing about Lance on the board, people have always doubted him, and has never had a fair shake. There has always been a reason to rip the guy. I don't understand why anybody wouldn't want a 23 year old future star back on the team. The other teams not offering him contracts must have their heads up their asses
    So many teams DO have their heads up their asses. Not that I'm smarter than execs or anything, but some of the moves these guys make just make NO sense. I'm definitely not losing sleep over these guys not offering Lance a bigger contract.

  32. #895
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    If Lance does end up kicking rocks and we can't find a trade that nets us a clear upgrade at point.. what about going after Jameer Nelson and sending Hill over to SG where he belongs. Could we even afford Jameer? I did read something a week or so ago that had the Pacers interested in him. That was before we signed Miles and Damjan tho.

  33. #896
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by habart30 View Post
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    If Lance does end up kicking rocks and we can't find a trade that nets us a clear upgrade at point.. what about going after Jameer Nelson and sending Hill over to SG where he belongs. Could we even afford Jameer? I did read something a week or so ago that had the Pacers interested in him. That was before we signed Miles and Damjan tho.
    Jameer is probably a minimum guy at this point, so yes we probably can afford him. I doubt he'll start over Hill if we sign him.

  34. #897
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Jameer is probably a minimum guy at this point, so yes we probably can afford him. I doubt he'll start over Hill if we sign him.
    He would only have to beat out CJ Watson because my idea has Hill moving to the 2.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    The extremes are getting ridiculous.

    Rather than posting some sarcastic attempt to get people to try to look at what they are doing, I'll just say this:

    The argument seems to be between those who think Lance is a guaranteed high-level star whose actions shouldn't affect that, and those who think Lance has a huge amount of talent but his actions impact whether he'll ever get there.

    There are few (if any) people who believe Lance is not talented.

    There are people who believe Lance's production is overrated. There are people who believe it is underrated.

    There are those who believe that teams are waiting for every other free agent signing to finish and then will offer Lance a big contract.

    There are those who believe if Lance hasn't gotten that big contract yet, he isn't going to get it. Of those, there are some who believe that this indicates a bigger problem than perhaps the Pacers (and fans) are already aware of.

    What is illogical or incredible about any of these positions? ALL of them are worthy of debate - i.e. there's evidence to at least make the position worth discussing.

    The problem is when holder of one side argues that holders of the other side shouldn't be listened to because they are "haters" or "fan boys" or "don't watch the games".

    Right now we have NO WAY to know how this is going to come out.

    The cynic in me believes Lance will hold out and get a slightly better offer after all the other personnel opportunities for the Pacers are gone, leaving us in the lurch.

    The realist in me believes that Bird's offer will stand and we'll get Lance back (and that he's NOT going to somehow be pissed at the Pacers over it, because it's exactly the kind of thing Larry will sit him down and talk to him about).

    Whatever happens, we can only wait. Discussing the possibilities is fine, but coming down on one side and acting as if any other conclusion is full goose bozo is ... well ... full goose bozo.
    BillS

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  37. #899
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The extremes are getting ridiculous.

    Rather than posting some sarcastic attempt to get people to try to look at what they are doing, I'll just say this:

    The argument seems to be between those who think Lance is a guaranteed high-level star whose actions shouldn't affect that, and those who think Lance has a huge amount of talent but his actions impact whether he'll ever get there.

    There are few (if any) people who believe Lance is not talented.

    There are people who believe Lance's production is overrated. There are people who believe it is underrated.

    There are those who believe that teams are waiting for every other free agent signing to finish and then will offer Lance a big contract.

    There are those who believe if Lance hasn't gotten that big contract yet, he isn't going to get it. Of those, there are some who believe that this indicates a bigger problem than perhaps the Pacers (and fans) are already aware of.

    What is illogical or incredible about any of these positions? ALL of them are worthy of debate - i.e. there's evidence to at least make the position worth discussing.

    The problem is when holder of one side argues that holders of the other side shouldn't be listened to because they are "haters" or "fan boys" or "don't watch the games".

    Right now we have NO WAY to know how this is going to come out.

    The cynic in me believes Lance will hold out and get a slightly better offer after all the other personnel opportunities for the Pacers are gone, leaving us in the lurch.

    The realist in me believes that Bird's offer will stand and we'll get Lance back (and that he's NOT going to somehow be pissed at the Pacers over it, because it's exactly the kind of thing Larry will sit him down and talk to him about).

    Whatever happens, we can only wait. Discussing the possibilities is fine, but coming down on one side and acting as if any other conclusion is full goose bozo is ... well ... full goose bozo.
    Ok Mr. Obvious, if everyone held pat to this thinking what would be the point of a forum for discussion? Zzz
    .

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Ok Mr. Obvious, if everyone held pat to this thinking what would be the point of a forum for discussion? Zzz
    Because discussion is more than just threads full of people calling each other poopy heads.

    People can actually, you know, discuss reasoning rather than claiming anyone who doesn't interpret the evidence the same way is an idiot.
    BillS

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