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Thread: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

  1. #1201
    #Franking Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Disappointing.

  2. #1202

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Nothing's official, but this is why Lance and his agent waited. He had nothing to lose.

    I don't care how much you dislike Lance. Being realistic, it will hurt us to lose him. He's our best shot creator, passer and one of the only players on our roster that doesn't back down from a challenge. We'll need another upcoming deal to make up for the loss of Lance.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    So we'll see a 44.8 FG% Roy instead of a 43.9% one? I can't wait until Lance leaves so that Roy can get that .9% back.

    Roy was his usual mediocre self on offense in 12-13. He just happened to morph into Hakeem against the Knicks and Heat in the playoffs, but that was the exception and clearly not the norm.
    I think the issue isn't so much Hibbert's shooting percentage, but just being engaged in the game on both ends. Roy's defense has always been his biggest asset and I feel that when he's engaged offensively, it fuels him on the defensive end (and that's seen in a lot of players around the league).

    If you get Roy some touches and get his confidence going vs. having Lance dribble the ball around like a maniac, I feel it can have a big impact on what Hibbert brings to the team on the defensive end of the court. If I was a player on the court and Stephenson goes into one of those games where he just dribbles around looking to create his own shot, I think I would easily be less interested in the game. One of the great things about watching the Spurs in the NBA Finals this season was to see how many times they made an effort to get everyone to touch the ball on an offensive possession. I think there's a huge correlation to their success and approach, especially since it was a lot like what our team was doing the first couple months of the season.

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  6. #1204
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    The Pacers can always turn to go after Evan Turner for 5-6 mil IF Lance goes to the Hornets.

    Or do the Hornets try to get the Pacers to take back Gerald Henderson as a consolation gift for losing Lance? Henderson makes 6 mil in 2014-15 and a 6 mil option in 2015-16 and plays solid defense. Personally not a huge fan of his , but his name has been rumored in trade talks here before.

    You have to the Pacers higher ups have a fall back plan, don't you?

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    The Pacers can always turn to go after Evan Turner for 5-6 mil IF Lance goes to the Hornets.

    Or do the Hornets try to get the Pacers to take back Gerald Henderson as a consolation gift for losing Lance? Henderson makes 6 mil in 2014-15 and a 6 mil option in 2015-16 and plays solid defense. Personally not a huge fan of his , but his name has been rumored in trade talks here before.

    You have to the Pacers higher ups have a fall back plan, don't you?
    Neither options are too enticing, but with that said:

    Henderson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Turner

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  9. #1206

    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    So we'll see a 44.8 FG% Roy instead of a 43.9% one? I can't wait until Lance leaves so that Roy can get that .9% back.

    Roy was his usual mediocre self on offense in 12-13. He just happened to morph into Hakeem against the Knicks and Heat in the playoffs, but that was the exception and clearly not the norm.
    Roy was dealing with a wrist injury the first half of the season, and knowing his go-to move on offense was a hook, it's no surprise he struggled. However, you only cite his playoffs as his only good stretch, but he was very good the entire 2nd half, coincidently when he said his wrist healed.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 07-16-2014 at 12:59 AM.

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  11. #1207
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    I'm really, really down on our front office. Yay, we'll be good enough to turn a sliver of profit. Not like winning a damn title increases your revenue or anything, gotta play it safe though! I'm gonna log off before I start ranting.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    They are dumping salary because of bad pickups and bad contracts given previously. Not Hill and Hibbert, but the bench guys who are too ineffective to play in every series but are making more than 3 million a year.
    those contracts wouldn't look so bad had those players been utilized properly

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Roy just needs to be super decisive when he catches and be able to go straight up without bringing the ball down and of course finishing. I really hope he works his a** off on these things this summer. I don't think he's a lost cause yet, but he's got to stay hungry. I hope last year's season serves as motivation.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm really, really down on our front office. Yay, we'll be good enough to turn a sliver of profit. Not like winning a damn title increases your revenue or anything, gotta play it safe though! I'm gonna log off before I start ranting.
    Lance isn't good enough to be an irreplaceable deciding factor in us winning a championship. The idea of building around him and Paul like some on here want to do is not a smart idea. Paul is not Durant, and Lance is not Westbrook. We would be setting ourselves up for failure if we go in that direction. We would end up being something similar to the Josh Smith Hawks. Yeah, talent wise you seem like you should be competing for a championship, but you got this fatal flaw in your design that holds you back from truly competing.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 07-16-2014 at 01:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm really, really down on our front office. Yay, we'll be good enough to turn a sliver of profit. Not like winning a damn title increases your revenue or anything, gotta play it safe though! I'm gonna log off before I start ranting.
    Maybe you're right, but it's also possible the FO knows a lot more inside stuff and feels like for whatever reason their offer is as much as we should risk. If they REALLY wanted Lance back they would find a way. I'm more inclined to think they balanced the positives and negatives with bringing Lance back and that's as far as they are willing to go. Like I said in a previous post, I have a feeling we don't know NEAR all that happened in regards to the meltdown last year.(and no I'm not putting it all on Lance)

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  20. #1212
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Roy just needs to be super decisive when he catches and be able to go straight up without bringing the ball down and of course finishing. I really hope he works his a** off on these things this summer. I don't think he's a lost cause yet, but he's got to stay hungry. I hope last year's season serves as motivation.
    I agree, and the coaches need to work on getting Roy the ball in better positions to score. A straight post-up should not be your main way of using a post player who has trouble keeping position. Do something like, set a pick and have him come across the lane and receive the pass so he isn't having to establish position as often. Have him flash to a spot directly in front of the basket for a quick hook shot. In general have him moving to positions and receiving the ball instead of establishing position and receiving the ball. If it isn't there quickly, move the ball. Oh, and get rid of the wing cut on every post up. Just leave that guy out there, just have him move to a better position for a catch and shoot, and if Roy isn't getting something he likes then have him cut to the basket.

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  22. #1213
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Will be really disappointed if we let Lance slip away.

    Yes, he is a huge question mark. Yes, he needs to continue to mature on and off the court, in the locker room, etc.

    But dangit, he is the most explosive and exciting player the Pacers have had in... potentially ever.

    He makes the games much more exciting to watch and with the exception of the times he truly goes off the deep end during a game (which, I grant you, does happen) he dramatically improves our team.

    I'm not ready to start calling for Larry's head or anything, but I would see the failure to retain Lance as a big blow to our chances of keeping up with the ever improving East this summer.

    We'll see fairly soon how it's going to play out. But I am not ready to give up on our championship aspiration window

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Will be really disappointed if we let Lance slip away.

    Yes, he is a huge question mark. Yes, he needs to continue to mature on and off the court, in the locker room, etc.

    But dangit, he is the most explosive and exciting player the Pacers have had in... potentially ever.

    He makes the games much more exciting to watch and with the exception of the times he truly goes off the deep end during a game (which, I grant you, does happen) he dramatically improves our team.

    I'm not ready to start calling for Larry's head or anything, but I would see the failure to retain Lance as a big blow to our chances of keeping up with the ever improving East this summer.

    We'll see fairly soon how it's going to play out. But I am not ready to give up on our championship aspiration window

    Part of me will grieve if Lance is gone, but Lance is Larry's boy so I trust that he will do the right thing. He's not taking it lightly, I'm sure of that.

  25. #1215
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think anyone watching the games could easily see Roy and Lance were not a good match last year. I think that is an undeniable fact. Whether it was Lance's fault, Roy's fault or somewhere in the middle (the correct answer here), they did not mesh well together as Lance took over decision making more. I don't think PacersPenguins is wrong to say that they did not play well together. A lot of the things Lance does didn't mesh well with Roy's game last year.


    However, I think it would also be a mistake to assume that just because of that the two of them could never learn to play together.
    Or that because of that we need to lose Lance and hitch our wagon to Hibbert...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Hibbert sucking had nothing to do with Lance. It isn't Lance's fault that Roy scored 0 points and 0 rebounds in the playoffs, where NBA players really earn their keep. It isn't Lance's fault our $15 million center was benched in the playoffs being guarded by a 30 year old rookie/cab driver
    David "And One" West

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  28. #1217
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Lance isn't good enough to be an irreplaceable deciding factor in us winning a championship. The idea of building around him and Paul like some on here want to do is not a smart idea. Paul is not Durant, and Lance is not Westbrook. We would be setting ourselves up for failure if we go in that direction. We would end up being something similar to the Josh Smith Hawks. Yeah, talent wise you seem like you should be competing for a championship, but you got this fatal flaw in your design that holds you back from truly competing.
    OK, but here's the question. Is CJ Miles closer to Westbrook than is Lance? Because that is what we are looking at as the alternative.
    There's no K-Love for Scola trade going down.

  29. #1218
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I agree, and the coaches need to work on getting Roy the ball in better positions to score. A straight post-up should not be your main way of using a post player who has trouble keeping position. Do something like, set a pick and have him come across the lane and receive the pass so he isn't having to establish position as often. Have him flash to a spot directly in front of the basket for a quick hook shot. In general have him moving to positions and receiving the ball instead of establishing position and receiving the ball. If it isn't there quickly, move the ball. Oh, and get rid of the wing cut on every post up. Just leave that guy out there, just have him move to a better position for a catch and shoot, and if Roy isn't getting something he likes then have him cut to the basket.
    Unfortunately, Hibbert doesn't 'flash' anywhere for a 'quick' shot (or decision). He lumbers...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Can we stop making excuses for Roy sucking? He was so bad he was benched vs Atlanta, and the convenient excuse he gets was "Atlanta was just a terrible match-up for Roy". He shoots a **** poor FG% for a center, and it's "his teammates fault" for not passing him the ball where he likes it. Roy gets the ball, stands forever, starts dribbling, and puts up a crappy hook shot from 15 feet out, and its "well we need Roy to score to be at our best." Roy cannot rebound or jump, and its "Lance steals rebounds from Roy." Why can't we as Pacer fans admit that Roy's contract is horrible. If he only cared about defense, and didn't care about scoring, he would be worth it. The fact that Roy needs to be involved in our offense has ruined our team. Lance shoots almost 50%, and roy shoots almost 40%. Who wouldn't in their right minds want Lance shooting more
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Damn.. I don't think it's the best fit for Lance, but if there's anyone that could keep him in line it would be MJ. Just the respect he commands, kinda like Bird really. Hope Bird's got a plan if we lose him. Standing pat I feel we got very little chance next year.

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    You will see the Hibbert of the 2012-2013 season if we don't re-sign Lance. Lance really takes away from Roys game in countless ways. Also I'd rather pay a defensive specialist in Hibbert 15 mil than someone like Hayward or Parsons 15 mil... Roy will turn it around this season and this is coming from someone who isn't a big supporter of Roy, but I still think he can return to his old self
    Yes I hope he can return to his 2012-2013 form. 12 points on 45% FG. What an offensive beast we can look forward to.....
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Damn.. I don't think it's the best fit for Lance, but if there's anyone that could keep him in line it would be MJ. Just the respect he commands, kinda like Bird really. Hope Bird's got a plan if we lose him. Standing pat I feel we got very little chance next year.
    I don't think MJ commands the same level of respect that Larry receives. Players respect MJ's game, and iconic presence, but he carries himself in a "you will never be close to as good as I was" kind of way. Larry Bird dominated a predominately African American game, and black players are really drawn to this.
    David "And One" West

  37. #1223
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    Maybe you're right, but it's also possible the FO knows a lot more inside stuff and feels like for whatever reason their offer is as much as we should risk. If they REALLY wanted Lance back they would find a way. I'm more inclined to think they balanced the positives and negatives with bringing Lance back and that's as far as they are willing to go. Like I said in a previous post, I have a feeling we don't know NEAR all that happened in regards to the meltdown last year.(and no I'm not putting it all on Lance)
    I wonder if the Pacers are surprised by the lack of offers for Lance?
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  38. #1224
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    We are all aware that the FO has a number they won't go over to sign Lance. I'm guessing it's not the very first offer they threw out there. It hasn't been updated because nobody's been serious with Lance yet.

    Keep in mind we have several things working in our favor:
    • Remember that with an ascending contract on a 5 year deal, you only add ~16% of the total number to the first year. So if you add $6 mil, you only have to add about $1 mil to this year's salary. So if we can find somebody willing to take any 1 of our bench players off of our hands, we can add a LOT more money to the total figure.
    • We currently have 14 players under contract, 2 of whom are on unguaranteed contracts and 1 which is partially unguaranteed. Simply cutting all 3 players essentially gives us enough space for Lance with the current offer, and lets us begin the season with 13 men on the roster.
    • We have the stretch provision available.
    • Our team is better than any team that's been seriously entertaining Lance.
    • Charlotte is one of the few teams that actually played at a SLOWER pace than Indiana last season.
    • Our offseason was spent adding a backup guard and two guys who fill positions that are likely to be vacated if we have to cut salary.




    Bottom line, unless Charlotte gives Lance a near max contract I think he's going to be in blue and gold next season.
    My prediction: Solomon Hill is going to lead the team in Surprisingly Good Plays for the year. -10/29/2014

  39. #1225
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    Default Re: Pacers Offered Lance 44 Million and he turned it Down?

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    We are all aware that the FO has a number they won't go over to sign Lance. I'm guessing it's not the very first offer they threw out there. It hasn't been updated because nobody's been serious with Lance yet.

    Keep in mind we have several things working in our favor:
    • Remember that with an ascending contract on a 5 year deal, you only add ~16% of the total number to the first year. So if you add $6 mil, you only have to add about $1 mil to this year's salary. So if we can find somebody willing to take any 1 of our bench players off of our hands, we can add a LOT more money to the total figure.
    • We currently have 14 players under contract, 2 of whom are on unguaranteed contracts and 1 which is partially unguaranteed. Simply cutting all 3 players essentially gives us enough space for Lance with the current offer, and lets us begin the season with 13 men on the roster.
    • We have the stretch provision available.
    • Our team is better than any team that's been seriously entertaining Lance.
    • Charlotte is one of the few teams that actually played at a SLOWER pace than Indiana last season.
    • Our offseason was spent adding a backup guard and two guys who fill positions that are likely to be vacated if we have to cut salary.




    Bottom line, unless Charlotte gives Lance a near max contract I think he's going to be in blue and gold next season.
    This assumes that Larry is interested in amending his offer. Larry tends to say what he means. I hope you're right. I don't feel the doom and gloom some feel if lance leaves (8-10 games give me a break), but you never wanna lose young talent unless you absolutely have to.
    Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

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