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Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

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  • #1

    Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

    Hello and welcome to the 10th 2014 NBA draft piece. My first 9 draft articles have been on players I consider draft worthy somewhere in the 2nd round for Indiana, either by standing pat in some cases, or in others moving up some to target a particular player. You can read those draft profiles here:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...-2014-Pointers

    Today I wanted to hit the rest of the guys I considered doing full in depth pieces on, but who either moved up out of what I consider the realm of possibility to the upper regions of round one, or who I ruled out for whatever reason. I'll also have some quick thoughts on a few of the guys that we know worked out for Indiana, and also a random thought or 2 on other players that interested me throughout the year.

    Without further ado, here we go:

    1. Keith Appling.....point guard from Michigan State....do not like him at all.....fail to see what exactly he would bring to the table.....did like his toughness playing for the Spartans, but I just didn't feel like he makes any impact on the game....not very creative, not explosive, just doesn't do anything for me....I doubt he gets drafted, but he might be if someone wants a project point guard.....looks like a career in Europe in his future to me....

    2. Andre Dawkins.....2 guard from Duke.....totally a 1 dimensional spot up shooter....he is unathletic and limited.....I thought sitting out a year killed any chance he had to get better.....can't guard anyone, I don't like his body build, seems slow.....I can't see him making anybody's team.

    3. James McAdoo.....PF from North Carolina....he at least LOOKS like he would be good, but he isn't really....always leaves you wanting more....stats are inflated because UNC plays so up tempo and he had good teammates....didn't seem hungry to me.....I can see how he would get drafted just because of his pedigree and size, but what does he do well?......to me he isn't a guy who can help anybody.......

    4. Scottie Wilbekin....G from Florida.....some major off court issues, but maybe he got through those as he got older.....doesn't seem athletic enough to me....seemed slow on tape.....I wanted to like him, but I just don't see it......looks like an NBADL guy to me.

    5. Will Sheehey.....SF from Indiana.....nice kid, smart to talk to him, probably will coach someday.....but he can't play dead......he will end up in a low level league overseas or end up coaching somewhere in college, or maybe as a grad assistant at IU.....

    6. Jordan McRae....G from Tennessee.....I don't hate him, but I just think you can find somebody better.....doesn't have that one great skill that stands out to me at this level.......he is ok, and if we picked him at #57 you couldn't complain too much....but I just don't see him making an impact.....fringe NBA guy.

    7. Karvel Anderson......G/F from Robert Morris......great great story, if you haven't read about all that he overcame to get here, please find the article about him on espn.com.......but he can't play in the NBA....hope he goes to Europe and makes his money.

    8. Eric Moreland......F from Oregon State......very one dimensional power forward who is an elite defensive rebounder, but that is it.......very very limited offensively, but he runs the floor and blocks some shots and rebounds the hell out of it......problem for us I think will be some very serious character concerns about him....I think he will get signed by us or someone else in the summer league, and will get his chance then.....I wouldn't touch him personally, but I know somebody will.....

    All of those 8 guys above we know worked out for Indiana. I was studying them already to a degree, but quickly ruled them out after further review. I just can't see any justification for taking them. The other guys Indiana announced publically weren't under my consideration, and I have no real thoughts on them at this time.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Other quick thoughts on various random players:

    1. CJ Fair.....lefty, slinky wing from Syracuse......didn't really light my fire, though I tend to like left handed players.......Syracuse guys are hard to evaluate defensively, but from what I could tell he looked like he will be very below average defensively, and I question his range.....I could be all wet on him but he doesn't do it for me, even at #57.

    2. CleAnthony Early.....smallish 4/bigger 3 from Wichita State.....I think he is underrated by the evaluators, to me he is a guy you can go to war with.....I like his ability to make plays athletically, and he plays hard and smart basketball.....I think he can defend 3's and small ball 4's well.....I think he will have a similar role and effectiveness level of Draymond Green.....Early will end up on a good team and be a rotation guy for them, range is 25-35.....I wouldn't mind a move up for him at all.

    3. Aaron Craft.....my favorite COLLEGE player to watch, but he is like Tim Tebow....loveable but his game doesn't translate to the NBA.....He needs to go to Europe, play hard, then end up broadcasting college games on ESPN2 someday.....love how got after it defensively, can't shoot at all though and he has no chance to help an NBA team outside of practice.

    4. Deonte Burton.....PG from Nevada....his team was truly awful, but he could really score it.....I typically don't like small guards, but this guy has great length and a strong body.....he might have a shot to make it.....reminded me of Toney Douglas quite a bit....he was a shoot first, shoot second, and shoot third point guard for a terrible team, but it was hard to tell how much of that was totally his fault.....I think he is too small for my taste but others might like him.....

    5. Melvin Ejim.....SF from Iowa State.....he is a 4 with the size of a 3......played in a pro style system under Fred Hoiberg....just a hunch, but I think he gets drafted by Minnesota......I don't see that one great skill that makes him stand out.....very much a tweener....I don't see a lot of upside here.

    6. Johnny O'Bryant......tough to evaluate PF from LSU.....had big games vs high level competition, but stunk it up in other games.....undersized below the rim post player without a good mid range game at this point.....I think he is a bad fit for how the game is evolving.....terrible passer and ballhandler, has no face up game either....not a great rebounder on average though he had moments......weight is a big issue...could be a sleeper I suppose but I just don't see it....not my kind of guy, small post players don't do it for me....reminds me a ton of Ike Diogu.....

    7. Josh Huestis......SF from Stanford.....has big potential as 3 and D type guy, but he hasn't reached it yet.....numbers at Stanford were underwhelming, as their balanced attack and style of play depressed all those guys stats.....still, his defensive potential is there, and we know he is a high character very intelligent kid....my guess is that he ends up on a roster next fall somewhere in the league, and possibly could fit well on a team who can develop him.....I think he is underrated and underappreciated.....sneaky athletic, passes the eye test....also looks strangely like a very young Ron Artest to me in the face (am I crazy? maybe)......I think he might be a Thabo Safalosha/Jeffrey Taylor type with potential for a bit better than that.....very draftable for me if we stay at #57 or don't move up a lot.

    8. Adrian Payne.....4 man from Michigan State. To me he is the most overrated player in the draft, and apparently I am the only scout in America who thinks that, because I keep seeing him going in the late lottery in all of these interviews and mock drafts.....kid has great measurable I'll grant you that, but I hate his body (skinny legs, weird looking body I thought) and he has absolutely no stamina for whatever reason.....Izzo took him in and out constantly, because he wore down so quickly.....how can a guy who gets so exhausted so quickly help you with the tough travel and long NBA season?......I am told he has some sort of lung size issue, and I heard somewhere else that he had mono all year, but I don't believe the mono story......he plays like a guy who smokes 2 packs a day, seems to lack wind......skill wise he reminds me of Andrew Nicholson, but who wants to draft Andrew Nicholson in the top 15 this year?......I know some of you reading this like him, and perhaps the entire world is right and I am wrong, but I wouldn't draft him at any pick better than 40, even at #57 I'd have doubts.....He seems to not be all that smart of a defender to me, despite being coached hard at Michigan State....I just don't trust him, I think he is a bust waiting to happen.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Finally, 2 guys who I studied and LOVED, but who have seemingly moved out of our trade up range. If I were Indiana, I'd trade ANYBODY on our roster except Paul George and perhaps Roy Hibbert for a chance to draft these 2 players, who will perhaps be drafted in the 10-20 range:

    1. Elfrid Payton......PG from Louisiana-Lafayette. This guy is a jump shot away from being a top 3-10 point guard in the NBA someday. His potential for being a very good ballhandling, pass first big time defensive shut down type point guard is very very real. This kid can FLAT OUT PLAY. Having said that, keep in mind that I have a huge predilection for high pressure big time defensive weapons at the point guard position....I rate those guys very highly because great defensive point guards are hard to come by.....really good attacking point guard, gets wherever he wants to go with the dribble, great speed and ball handler with all sorts of shake and bake to his handle, really good court vision.

    Having said that, his jump shot is SERIOUSLY bad. No one will guard him outside of 15 feet until he gets better. He brings the ball up WAY to early in his release, which just jacks up any timing and rhythm to his jumper. He needs serious serious coaching to develop that as his career goes forward, but if he gets a jumper, he will be incredibly hard to stop. I am told that he is doing very very well in workouts, and beyond that he is young for his class, still has upside, and is charismatic enough that players all over are speaking out for him after they play with him. Great teammate apparently too, team USA loved him, as he started for them over several guys more highly touted. I think he can guard any point guard in the league and several 2 guards. In the tourney, he even guarded a much bigger Doug McDermott. His upside: a more fun to play with Rajon Rondo.

    2. KJ McDaniels....kid is 6'6 with an almost 7'0 wingspan......BIG TIME athlete and potential SHUT DOWN wing defender. Runs floor like a gazelle. Played for an absolute crappy offensive team at Clemson, but still managed to score 17pts a night. Averaged a jaw dropping 3.3 blocks a game, and I bet he led the ACC in deflections....guarded all of the studs Clemson played and did well.....GREAT wing rebounder, both blocks out fundamentally well AND gets off the ground and flows to the ball....can push the ball himself, long strider who covers a ton of ground with his dribble....can post up a bit, and can just leap up over the defense......shot fundamentals come and go, but shows a bunch of potential as a shooter.....shoots 87% from the foul line is why I say that...best defender at the wings I saw on tape other than perhaps the bigger Aaron Gordon, who is totally out of our range obviously....can slide, stop on a dime, and leap highly and on balance to contest shots, and does so with great ease and effort....plays hard.....not a great offensive player yet, but had to do way too much for such a bad and slow down Clemson team.....has inconsistent footwork, but that can be cleaned up with a good developmental staff.....occasional lack of focus is a problem, but in a specific role on a good team I think he can be a big defensive weapon....how great would it be for us to have a wing big time defender to play WITH Paul George?....George could really shut down the opponents 2nd scorer and save a bit of energy for offense, which is a major need for us......I'd love to have this kid. Likely will go in 15-25 range I would guess.


    OK, with 9 full profiles complete, and 18 other "mini" profiles done above, we seem to have covered all of the bases. Of course, the Pacers could pull a surprise tomorrow and draft someone totally off my radar (I've watched tape on a few others I didn't do a quick summary on above, but not many more) or select an overseas player to stash in Europe for a while.....I have done no tape work on foreign players in this draft.

    No matter who we pick or end up with, I'll try to have a full report on them done over the weekend.

    On draft day I'll present my suggested Pacers draft strategy, and we will try and call our shot on who our newest Indiana Pacer will be!

    This time until next time.......

    Tbird
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

    Payton just shot up the draft board.
    At 9 now.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

      TBird, just a note on Adreian Payne, since a lot of your evaluation seemed to center around his lack of stamina. Apparently he had mono since January but it went undiagnosed.

      http://www.freep.com/article/2014051...ian-payne-mono

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

        I agree on Elfrid Payton he is special( I have been saying that for two years). I have not seen a guy with a handle like his in my time of watching prospects. I have about 15 game tapes of him on hard drives, and I have 3 on my jump drive(I almost never put game tapes on my jump drive), I just can't get enough of the way he plays. I call him the Magician.

        Early is another guy we agree on. I would trade up for him or Payton. Early will always have a chip on his shoulder. He is defiantly a guy Larry Bird would target. My only issue with early is he is a bit of a dependent scorer, he would suffer a bit in our offense. But he is ideal in the new type of basketball. I think he is a great long term stretch PF.


        Payton is rightful rising to a top 10 range. He is a great starter without a jumper, and if he listens to a shooting coach he will be a top 3 player in this draft 10 years from now. But it is so lol watching teams guard him like Tbird says team play 20ft off him, and yet he still beats them off the bounce he is just to explosive and he is such a good passer in small tight areas.

        Originally posted by owl View Post
        Payton just shot up the draft board.
        At 9 now.
        He really didn't shoot up them. Just like Lillard he was likely viewed this way most of the year by NBA teams, the media is late to the party on small school guys.
        Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-25-2014, 08:58 PM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

          Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
          Early is another guy we agree on. I would trade up for him or Payton.
          Collectively, we should organize our ideas into (1) major trade (give up a significant player to get into the top 2/3 of the draft), (2) moderate trade (future 1st rounder or trade a bench player like Ian or Solo), or (3) minor trade (probably all of us endorse using Herb's money to trade up in the 2nd round). Since tbird hates Payne, I doubt #2 will happen.

          Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
          He is defiantly a guy Larry Bird would target.
          Et tu, P4E?


          "He’s no shrinking violet when it comes to that kind of stuff."

          - Rick Carlisle on how Kevin Pritchard responds to needed roster changes.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

            Originally posted by shags View Post
            TBird, just a note on Adreian Payne, since a lot of your evaluation seemed to center around his lack of stamina. Apparently he had mono since January but it went undiagnosed.

            http://www.freep.com/article/2014051...ian-payne-mono

            Yes I mentioned the mono in my original post.....I just don't buy it.

            Think about it...it makes no sense. For this to be true, you have to believe that one of the most high profile, intense and well organized and funded programs in America, coached by a Hall of Fame level coach in Tom Izzo, didn't notice one of his top players couldn't breathe well and had no stamina, and that this went on for MONTHS. I don't believe that version of the story one bit.

            Like I said, maybe it is just me. But any kid I've coached who was that weak and had such bad conditioning levels I would have had checked out by medical people immediately. Payne was literally sucking wind playing hard basketball after about 2 minutes. I've never had mono before, but I always was under the impression it was so debilitating that playing through it like supposedly Payne did would be impossible. Am I wrong about that? And isn't mono something that is contagious, and if so would any decent coach let a player with it be in his locker room? And if it was undiagnosed, am I supposed to believe that Izzo just thought he was playing so hard he was gassed after 90 seconds of play, and that he wasn't at least curious enough to check it out?

            I don't like his body frame anyway, and I think he is nothing but a face up stretch 4 anyway.....but I think there is more to his medical than we are being told. Someone COULD go back and look at tape from previous years to see if he had those issues in years past, which is what I am sure the teams actually have done.

            Maybe this is all just paranoia on my part, but something isn't right with Payne. Just my opinion.

            Tbird

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

              I think Draymond Green's NBA success has led to an overinflation of Payne's stock.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                Originally posted by DrFife View Post
                Collectively, we should organize our ideas into (1) major trade (give up a significant player to get into the top 2/3 of the draft), (2) moderate trade (future 1st rounder or trade a bench player like Ian or Solo), or (3) minor trade (probably all of us endorse using Herb's money to trade up in the 2nd round). Since tbird hates Payne, I doubt #2 will happen.



                Et tu, P4E?
                Of course I would target him. I like the kid more than his game(And I love his game). He is a really hard worker, and his back story is awesome. He is by far my favorite player in the draft. Tbird nails it this guy goes to war when he steps on the floor, great teammate David West like personality. It is kind of a cliche, but he is the type of guy you win with.


                I would trade a future 1st #57 and cash for him. I would also give up Solo or Copeland Sloan ect. for him.

                Like Tbird says there really isn't a guy outside of George who should not be on the table to get Payton. He isn't NBA ready as Lillard was but long term he is a equall to better NBA prospect IMO. That is hard for me to say my man crush on Lillard was deep, because of his game and the backstory, Lillard turned out to be exactly what I thought. I rentlentlyss worker who is elite on offense in PnR and shooting. The one thing that concerns me about Elfrid is his backstory.. I just don't know a lot about him. That isn't bad scouts hopeful did homework, but it is hard for me to believe he has that chip like Early and Lillard had.


                I have a list of roughly 5 players I would trade the package listed above to trade into the 1st or early 2nd for.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                  These threads are always great. You and P4E offer great reads. I really like Early and Huestis out of the 2nd grouping. If Huestis is there right around 57 and we have stayed there, I would love to grab him.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                    Huestis shot up quick on Draftexpress. He was #60 then shot up to #47 in one day.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                      For me Payton is special, but man It really scares me to trade up for a guy at this point in time where our team is that can not really shot, I think that is one of our biggest areas of weakness, and that would be taking a big gamble with what we might have to give up to get him. But if you surround him by shooters maybe it will not turn out to be a bad thing.

                      I really like Early too, but you have to wonder how he would do if he did not have a scoring role on the team, but I love his intensity.

                      Also I would love to trade up to get Harris as well, even Stauskus if he fell far enough.
                      Why so SERIOUS

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                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                        I always love reading your posts. Always very insightful and well researched.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                          Random fact: Josh Huestis graduated from the high school where I teach. You couldn't find a nicer kid. He was a back to the basket 5 in high school, almost no outside shot or ball skills. He's come a long, long way.

                          Ultimately I think he's too much like Solomon Hill for the Pacers to draft. He's a better defender but worse offensively than Hill. I'd love to see Huestis on the Spurs.
                          "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                          - Salman Rushdie

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #10: Short thoughts on other players I have studied this year

                            Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                            Of course I would target him. I like the kid more than his game(And I love his game). He is a really hard worker, and his back story is awesome. He is by far my favorite player in the draft. Tbird nails it this guy goes to war when he steps on the floor, great teammate David West like personality. It is kind of a cliche, but he is the type of guy you win with.

                            I would trade a future 1st #57 and cash for him. I would also give up Solo or Copeland Sloan ect. for him.

                            Like Tbird says there really isn't a guy outside of George who should not be on the table to get Payton. He isn't NBA ready as Lillard was but long term he is a equall to better NBA prospect IMO. That is hard for me to say my man crush on Lillard was deep, because of his game and the backstory, Lillard turned out to be exactly what I thought. I rentlentlyss worker who is elite on offense in PnR and shooting. The one thing that concerns me about Elfrid is his backstory.. I just don't know a lot about him. That isn't bad scouts hopeful did homework, but it is hard for me to believe he has that chip like Early and Lillard had.

                            I have a list of roughly 5 players I would trade the package listed above to trade into the 1st or early 2nd for.
                            p4e, I really enjoy reading your posts when it comes to the draft. Can you post your thoughts on who the Pacers can likely draft in the 2nd round?
                            Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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