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Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

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  • #1

    Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

    Today we take a strong look at Thanasis Antetokounmpo, the uber athletic wing from Athens Greece, via the NBADL's Delaware franchise. Previously we have profiled Russ Smith, Davion Berry, DeAndre Daniels, and Patric Young.....you can find those profiles elsewhere on this site.

    Thanasis comes to this year's draft one year after his brother Giannis was taken by the Milwaukee Bucks in the first round. Giannis, often known as "the Greek Freak" quickly became a fan favorite in Milwaukee and may be when all is said and done one of the best players to come from last year's admittedly weak draft.

    Thanasis is smaller than his brother, weighing in at 205lbs and measuring at the NBA combine at 6'6 1/4 tall. His wingspan is substantially above average at 7'0, which along with his extremely high motor and leaping ability makes him likely the best raw athlete in this draft. Born July 17 1992, Thanasis will turn 22 years old next month.

    What kind of basketball player is he, and what CAN he be someday? That is the question I try to answer below.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let's face it, Thanasis is extremely extremely raw and really isn't ready to play at the NBA level yet. He will need great development, commitment from whatever franchise takes him, and time and patience from teammates, coaches, and fans.

    But the analogy I would use is this: If you were a great chef trying to make a great meal that would please the masses, I think that you would prefer to have the single best ingredients you could have. If you are a good enough chef, you should be able to make a great meal of some kind if your raw ingredients are among the best in the world.

    There is perhaps more raw and natural talent and ability under the surface with this player than anyone else I have profiled by far, and perhaps more athleticism than anyone in the draft. Now, can that translate to basketball prowess and success? If you take him, you must have faith in your developmental staff to fix his flaws and to teach him how to play.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unlike I usually do, I am going to talk about his weaknesses as a player currently before I talk about his strengths.

    First, the kid has a broken jump shot. He obviously hasn't been well taught by high level coaches on the proper shooting mechanics.

    Teaching in some ways is undergoing a revolution by the way. I will be covering this in much more detail in a future article, but many of the things that you reading this have been taught about shooting and heard for years (such as "square your feet", and "jump straight up" and "follow your shot" and "gooseneck your wrist") are being scientifically and biometrically proven false. And yes, I am a complete and total believer in the new methods being taught to shooters form wise now, which is just now beginning to trickle down to the college and high school levels in a more thorough way.

    Basically, starting from the top and going down, Thanasis on his shot:

    1. Has his wrist follow through totally 100% incorrect, which makes his shot go off to the right or left.

    2. His foot placement is totally old school teaching (i.e., straight at the rim) which I believe is totally incorrect and not how current experts at high levels teach....this messes up his aiming point and in fact gets his shot off line.

    3. Thanasis does usually jump straight up and down, which is the old school way of doing it but is wrong also.

    4. His feet are generally shoulder length apart, which you all think is correct but in fact is not the way shooting is taught now, and which also causes him to travel sometimes on a drive and messes up his ability to shoot a I or 2 dribble pull up.

    5. His landing is inconsistent, which causes inconsistency in how tension in his shoulders and neck effect the shot at the top of his release.

    So, in my view someone has to totally rebuild his jump shot from scratch. The good news is that this kid seems to have an unbelievable work ethic is completely coachable, and because he hasn't played forever in the AAU culture that exists here his bad habits aren't as ingrained in him and he is more coachable than the average 21 or 22 year old kid.

    But while you may have to really develop him as a shooter, the kid still has the ability to do things athletically that simply can't be taught. His ability to get to the rim and finish is already at a high level. His first step is still way above average. His big hands enable him to hold the ball in ways that others can't. He runs the floor extremely hard and can finish on the break. His dribble attack game is better than you might think it is, and he has some higher level moves off the dribble that he has obviously worked on and improved.

    And let's not forget, the kid plays his sack off. All of those things mean he has a chance to potentially be a high quality player at some point in the future if he develops correctly. Lots can go wrong along the way obviously, but the potential is there for a high level NBA slasher, rim runner, and spot up shooter....and even the possibility to be someone's perhaps 2nd or 3rd best scorer if he hits his absolute ceiling.

    That is a very high offensive ceiling for someone who will likely get picked in the 2nd round.

    At this point, Thanasis is not a great passer, but that has more to do I think with a lack of experience playing the game and perhaps the environment in the D League as a whole more than with him. I think his lack of passing prowess has more to do with the fact that he has to concentrate a bit extra to handle the ball at this point than you'd like ideally, which means he has to focus more on his own dribble, then his own defender, rather than seeing "beyond his defender", which the great creators always do. Having said that, I see a lack of selfishness in Thanasis attitude and I think in time he will be a good passer, due to his high level of potential skill and the fact that he seemingly is a great kid and outstanding teammate.

    Again, you have to put your "futuristic" glasses on and try to see what he CAN be, not what he is right this second.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    His ultimate upside, while I think is pretty good, doesn't reside on the offensive end however.

    Potentially, Thanasis has a CHANCE to be not just a good, but an ELITE wing defender.

    But he isn't there yet, and in fact he may never be......but his defensive potential is off the charts.

    Directly on the ball, he already is above average, with a chance to be a future lockdown type guy. His length and quickness while in a proper stance is a major weapon, and more importantly his second, third and fourth slide most of the time is even quicker and lower than the first. When engaged, it is difficult to get by him off the dribble.

    Not to say that it can't be done though. At this point, he is relying on total raw athletic ability. He has simply got to be coached on how best to move his body to be more efficient as a defender. A defender with his skills should just play a dribbler "head up" and not try and force him in either direction.....just react to the offensive player and cut him off either way he goes, and use your length to cut him off. But way too often for my taste, Thanasis will take a defensive position with 1 foot much further back than necessary, in essence forcing the dribbler in one direction. These are methods that bad defenders do, not guys with world class athleticism! So what happens is that guys attack him, and he is forced to slide in a retreat posture. Then quite often savvy dribblers will use a hesitation dribble or cross over on him, and he will over react and stand up, or on a crossover will open his hips and get toasted. He recovered in the D league some of the time, but that won't work in the NBA.

    But all of that is teachable with great, long term, consistent coaching and developmental work.

    What makes him potentially elite I think is his ability to jump quickly off a dead stop out of a slide, and his ability to be a rim protector from the wing spot.

    If you just try to shoot a pull up jumper on Thanasis, you better get it off quick, because he is going to immediately spring from his stance and contest you with a 40 plus vertical and super long length. He can effect your jumper in a big time negative way if he is on you.

    And his ability to get in the air QUICKLY is what really stands out. He can jump and be faked out by a shot fake, then land and jump AGAIN and still influence your shot and perhaps even get a piece of it. He is like a pogo stick, jumping and immediately jumping again and even a 3rd time on a couple of videos I saw.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    He has potential to be a big time shot blocker if he happens to find himself near the rim in help position. Now at this point, he really has no clue what he is doing all of the time when his man doesn't have the ball. And just like you hate seeing, he will often get up out of his stance and relax when his man doesn't have the ball. Yet another bad NBADL habit most of that league seems to have!

    But when he is engaged and alert, he can come from a long way away and clean up others mistakes. Not just his vertical is impressive, but also his TIMING, as he rarely "swings and misses" like you see a lot of from young basketball players. He definitely must be accounted for by the attacking driver.

    And as a closeout guy coming from help and recovering to a shooter, his potential is enormous. Theoretically he should be able to recover about 3 to 5 extra feet than the average defender when you account for his extra length and quickness. That's huge! Now at this point it doesn't always translate, because many times he isn't in a stance and therefore that negates his advantages, and at other times he flies recklessly out of control at people, who simply sidestep him and shoot anyway. But the potential is there for him to be a major defensive weapon at the NBA level in time.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lastly, I should mention this kids on court demeanor and personality, to me, is a major plus.

    This kid plays with a passion you didn't see anywhere in the DLeague. His ability and willingness to change ends most of the time was unbelievable to watch, even when it wasn't really necessary or even mean anything. The kid looked like Pete Rose running to first base after a walk sometimes.

    He also plays with an infectious enthusiasm and wonderment, if that makes any sense. He celebrates good plays with teammates in a boisterous way, and he will be an instant crowd favorite among the kids I think wherever he ends up. He is definitely a kid who plays with a lot of noise, and he talks a lot on the floor, which will be reminiscent of our own Lance Stephenson.....but instead of that angry New Yorker attitude Lance shows sometimes, this somehow seems more genuine and innocent, if that makes any sense.

    Maybe I am influenced a bit by the story of their family, and the idea of these kids making it in pro basketball against such odds. Normally on court theatrics are not my thing at all, but it seems cool to me when this kid does it. I don't know.

    All interviews with him are polite and he is very well spoken even in English, which is not his first language, and I suspect that his teammates will really gravitate to him wherever he may go. I normally don't like to factor things like that in too much....but in this case, maybe I have.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So, what do we have in Thanasis Antetokounmo?

    I think we have a major project player, but one with extremely high upside if he pans out, substantially more potential than anyone else we could even dream of getting as a 2nd round pick.

    If he gets to his ceiling, he projects for me to be a guy who can score in the 12-14 points a game area and provide extreme lock down NBA wing defense on some of the world's best players.

    Now, it is a long road to get to that point, and it is very likely he may not quite get there....but if he does, you have the best 2nd round pick in this draft by far and perhaps one of the top 10 players in this draft when we think about this 10 years from now.

    If Indiana ends up with him, the 2 most important people for the Pacers franchise in regards to Thanasis will be Clark Kellogg and Carlos Knox.....with Knox being a name I am going to delve deeper into going forward.

    It is also possible that a team will draft Thanasis and send him to Europe to play, but my guess is that he wants to stay stateside and in fact would be the type that you'd want to keep close to you so you can watch and guide his development as he goes along.

    If you have the patience, the time, and the stomach for a 3 year project, Thanasis may just be worth the wait. He has no chance to help you in 2014-15, and might just play spot minutes in 2015-2016....but after that he has big potential to help a championship level team.

    IF IF IF IF IF.........that is the big word.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Will he be there at #57 for Indiana? I would think not.

    Again, to get Antetokounmpo Indiana must trade up to the early to mid 2nd round.

    I believe he would easily be worth doing that for. I would trade cash, #57, future 2nd round picks, and perhaps more than that to trade up to get him. I believe his potential is huge and that we as a small market team with championship level dreams must be willing to make gambles like that for long term potential.

    Even if we traded a George Hill for a pick in the mid 20's or so, Antetokounmpo would still be my selection in that range. That is how much I like this kid, even though I know he won't help us in this current run.

    It is a gamble no question, but one I think that the potential payoff makes it worthwhile.

    But, we all know that this is an unlikely scenario....but a scout can always hope, can't he?

    NBA comparable: Andre Iguodola (IF he hits his ceiling)

    This time until next time......

    Tbird
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

    Nuntius would be extremely pleased if we go after this guy. I would be very grumpy if San Antonio gets him - that would say a LOT.

    By the way, Tbird, you can use this link http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...-2014-Pointers to point people to your other threads.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

      Don't know what you plan to say about Carlos Knox, but I think it's worth mentioning the Fever hired him as a player development coach this year so PS&E is plenty familiar with him.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

        Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
        Don't know what you plan to say about Carlos Knox, but I think it's worth mentioning the Fever hired him as a player development coach this year so PS&E is plenty familiar with him.
        He works with the Pacers too. Not sure the role, but I have seen him working out players at BLF.

        I watched Antetokounmpo's team play quite a bit this year because they have 3 draft eligible guys, and a few other guys I like. He reminds me of Jimmy Butler when he was at Marquette. I didn't think Jimmy had enough offense to stick in the league. He proved that wrong. Thanasis makes so many defensive plays and tip ins just like Jimmy did in college.

        With that said the 87ers were awful they were really hard to watch. Tiny Gallon drives me nuts. As a team they didn't play a lick of defense, and were not a good offensive team IMO.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
          He obviously hasn't been well taught by high level coaches on the proper shooting mechanics.
          This is absolutely true. I believe that you certainly know the story of the Antetokounmpo family but allow me to do a quick recap. The Antetokounmpo family immigrated to Greece from Nigeria in 1991. Their parents (Charles and Veronica) worked several jobs (Charles mainly as an electrician and Veronica as a babysitter and a cleaner) in order to provide for their family. The kids even had to work themselves (mainly selling watches in street markets) in order to get by.

          One day Giannis and Thanasis were playing basketball in a local court in Sepolia and Spirs Velliniatis, the coach of Filathlitikos, saw them and approached them in order to join his team. At this I have to say that Filathlitikos is a really commendable club. They have done a lot to help the poorest families in this area and they helped both Giannis and Thanasis. It's important to note that this is when the two brothers first started playing basketball seriously. Before being approached by the coach of Filathlitikos they competed in football, volleyball, ping-pong and track and field.

          Unfortunately, the level of A2 Greek basketball is poor. Greece really lacks the infrastructure and facilities in order to have correct practices and high-level training camps. The Greek state really doesn't give a crap about basketball, which is a real shame since we always produce good basketball talent. Take that from someone that spent 10 years at the youth academy of an A1 team (which is one of the best teams at developing youth talent in Greece but it still cannot compare to high level training standards).

          The coaches of Filathlitikos really have the best intentions and try their best to teach their young players but the coaching level and training facilities are not as high level as an NBA project needs.
          Originally posted by IrishPacer
          Empty vessels make the most noise.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
            This is absolutely true. I believe that you certainly know the story of the Antetokounmpo family but allow me to do a quick recap. The Antetokounmpo family immigrated to Greece from Nigeria in 1991. Their parents (Charles and Veronica) worked several jobs (Charles mainly as an electrician and Veronica as a babysitter and a cleaner) in order to provide for their family. The kids even had to work themselves (mainly selling watches in street markets) in order to get by.

            One day Giannis and Thanasis were playing basketball in a local court in Sepolia and Spirs Velliniatis, the coach of Filathlitikos, saw them and approached them in order to join his team. At this I have to say that Filathlitikos is a really commendable club. They have done a lot to help the poorest families in this area and they helped both Giannis and Thanasis. It's important to note that this is when the two brothers first started playing basketball seriously. Before being approached by the coach of Filathlitikos they competed in football, volleyball, ping-pong and track and field.

            Unfortunately, the level of A2 Greek basketball is poor. Greece really lacks the infrastructure and facilities in order to have correct practices and high-level training camps. The Greek state really doesn't give a crap about basketball, which is a real shame since we always produce good basketball talent. Take that from someone that spent 10 years at the youth academy of an A1 team (which is one of the best teams at developing youth talent in Greece but it still cannot compare to high level training standards).

            The coaches of Filathlitikos really have the best intentions and try their best to teach their young players but the coaching level and training facilities are not as high level as an NBA project needs.
            Not sure the facilities is a big deal, more the level of coaching. I am at a camp right now, and we have a player(a coach at the camp) who just started playing a few years ago. She attended one of the basketball without borders(NBA Camps) and and now she is a D1 basketball player with a very fundamental game\. she is extremely raw, but the fundamentals of a good shot is there.

            I am really surprised that they were not moved to Spain or another country overseas where they could get the proper coaching(with the level of natural gifts they have I am surprised they stayed in Greece).
            Last edited by pacer4ever; 06-22-2014, 01:16 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

              If the Pacers could give Stephenson 3 years to develop then why not this kid. He obviously has a better attitude and manners than Stephenson. Sounds like a player to take a chance on. Someone at #30 the Spurs would go after.

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              • #8
                Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                Pacers don't need a 2nd rounder to play immediately. I would love it if he were there for the Pacers, but I highly doubt it.
                First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                  Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                  Not sure the facilities is a big deal, more the level of coaching. I am at a camp right now, and we have a player(a coach at the camp) who just started playing a few years ago. She attended one of the basketball without borders(NBA Camps) and and now she is a D1 basketball player with a very fundamental game\. she is extremely raw, but the fundamentals of a good shot is there.

                  I am really surprised that they were not moved to Spain or another country overseas where they could get the proper coaching(with the level of natural gifts they have I am surprised they stayed in Greece).
                  I believe that everything counts. Better facilities and good infrastructure can up the training level of a club. Of course, the level of coaching is a big deal as well. If the Greek state cared about basketball more and organized coaching seminars and camps our coaches could be up to date with the rest of the world and thus they could train our players better.

                  About moving to Spain. Giannis did earn a contract with Zaragoza in Spain but that happened a couple of months before the NBA draft. His contract had a clause that he could go to the NBA straight away and that's what happened. His brother followed him to the US as well.
                  Originally posted by IrishPacer
                  Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                    How bad does he want it? He can easily develop into one of the best 3 and D guys in the league. If he has the drive Paul George has, he could be even more.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                      Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                      Pacers don't need a 2nd rounder to play immediately. I would love it if he were there for the Pacers, but I highly doubt it.
                      You're right, you're not going to get a 2nd round that can play immediately......at most, you have one that you can develop and play in 2 to 3 seasons. I have seen Teams play 2nd round rookie Players, but Vogel doesn't play 2nd rounders in their rookie season.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                        I want a Greek Freak on the Pacers so bad. For a non-Bucks fan, I watched an absurd amount of their games this year just because Giannis was so much fun to see play. From videos and interviews I've watched and read, it seems like everyone in the Antetokounmpo family has such a great attitude, work ethic, and motor. He clearly doesn't look like he has the potential Giannis posses, but he could definitely develop into a solid player down the road with the right coaching.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                          Say that ten times fast

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                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                            Originally posted by presto123 View Post
                            Say that ten times fast
                            Done
                            Originally posted by IrishPacer
                            Empty vessels make the most noise.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Tbird 2014 NBA Draft analysis #5: Thanasis Antetokounmpo

                              Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                              Done
                              you must have started immediately after presto made his post.

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