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Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

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  • #1

    Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

    It became pretty apparent during the game early on how the Hawks would defend our club and how almost every single team that defends us well plays our club. It is probably the oldest organized defense in all of basketball yet our team, for reasons we’ll discuss below, can not overcome the simple 2-3 zone or variations of it.

    I kept hearing on the post game show how we never got the ball to Roy, that 9 shot attempts were not enough and how he had worked his way into position to get the ball.

    I disagree with most of that. The problem was once again, as has been the case all year long, the Hawks just packed the paint and immediately double and even triple teamed Hibbert whenever he got the ball. Both of the Korver blocks were because he was the 3rd man to come into the defensive play.

    Only two things really bust zones. Deadeye shooting from the perimeter, it doesn’t have to be three’s, or ball movement with lots and lots of off the ball movement.

    We have neither.

    There are a lot of reasons we lost this game but the simple fact that once again we do not have a player who can stick an open jumper night in and night out (Watson may be the most dependable) is going to be the downfall of the team.

    On defense we have a system and when it works it is great, however against the Hawks it does not work and therefore we look foolish because of our inability to adjust. Our idea of filtering the guards into out bigs is completely irrelevant to the way that Atlanta plays and therefore we have the absolute worst of all things in the fact that we have slow footed big men out attempting to chase away their bigs who can drain three’s like they are hitting a layup and then our guards who have been used to letting their player run into our bigs getting blown by but with no one left back to defend.

    All in all it makes for a miserable experience and probably the single worst playoff game I have attended live since the early 90’s. I knew this one was over in the 1st quarter and I’m not even joking you can go check my twitter feed before my phone died (much like my hopes for this game). I could see the defense they were using and my one hope was the Scola would come in and hit a few open jumpers and force them to change up, but we all know how that went.

    Overall this team has a disease that has infested it, I don’t know what it is or why it is or why we can’t fix it but there is defiantly something wrong.

    But when it comes to this particular match up I don’t think we have to look at hidden problems or locker room issues, I think it’s simply our inability to hit an open jump shot and our lack of athleticism in the front court.

    On a side note I would love to actually know how many screens that the Hawks successfully do every single game against us vs. what we do against them.

    My unscientific thought leads me to believe that they set anywhere from 30-50 while we honestly do about 10-15.

    We are the absolute worst team in the NBA at setting screens or solid picks. Our bigs do not allow contact to occur before they go running away from the dribbler. While their guards seem to have anywhere form 3 seconds to a half an hour to get off a shot or make a pass to an open big man for three.

    Sadly here is the truth of this game; this one is on Frank for the most part. Now don’t get me wrong he doesn’t make Scola miss all of his shots or make David West virtually invisible all night long. But the fact that he is Jim O’Brien level stubborn when it comes to his rotations and assignments does not help and in fact it exasperates an already bad situation.

    I am no Chris Copeland fan, I just am not a fan of the stretch 4 for obvious reasons but when Scola is giving you nothing and you are getting killed? It’s time to try something else.

    BTW, this isn’t a one game aberration this problem has been occurring for months.

    When you desperately need anyone hitting a shot why are you not giving a few min. to Rasual Butler?

    Roy Hibbert is getting worked over (more on him and his mental unraveling below) again and again why keep going back to him and not give the more athletic LaVoy Allen a shot?

    I understand in the playoffs coach’s want to limit their rotations but when you are losing by 20 and make no mistake this was not an 8 point loss in reality, it was closer to the 16-20 loss that was happening prior to that last few min. where Atlanta knew they had already won so they backed off, why not go with something else.

    I’m really trying to be dispassionate about the game and just give you guys a written report so I will hold my tongue until down at the bottom.

    Now as to Roy, and I am only reporting what I saw, prior to him coming back into the game in the 4th you could see him on the bench sulking head hung low (in other words the usual for Roy) when over comes Andrew Bynum who sits with Roy and for 4-5 min. giving him an emotional speech. I’m not kidding I’ve never seen many players let alone Bynum get in someone’s ear like that and you could tell he was pumping Roy up. For whatever reason whatever he was saying to him seemed to work a little because soon after that Roy came back into the game and had a few seconds where he actually played like a center. Then Kyle Korver blocked him again and it was all over.

    Another thing with Roy, right prior to Bynum giving him the Rocky speech or whatever he did, he was outside huddle acting all moody and stuff when Popeye Jones put his hands on Roy’s side/shoulder (couldn’t quite see where) and said something to Roy. Now I don’t know for sure because Roy’s body was between me & Popeye but it looked very much like Roy slapped his hand off of him and then he stomped away from the huddle and sat on the bench while Vogel was still talking. I know that whatever he did Popeye was none to pleased and gave Roy a dirty look.

    Has the Paul George dribble down the clock and shoot a fade away jumper at the end of a quarter worked in the past 5 months? I swear it ends in disaster every time. His idiotic loss of the ball cost us what could have been a 4 point lead going into half and let the Hawks tie the game.

    From there we were on the toboggan ride to hell.

    I’m going to attempt grades and I will really try and keep the cute commentary to a minimum.

    Paul George: C-

    I really don’t want to hear anyone talk about Lance being the only one to stop the ball. He took shots that were just unbelievably bad and while I normally count on him for solid defense he was just out of place all night long. Now some of that is not his fault because he got picked virtually every time he turned around on defense but he needs to learn to fight through those screens. Also I’m telling you guys that Paul is approaching Jermaine O’Neal level of referee complaining after every shot.

    David West: D

    He really stepped it up for this playoff game, didn’t he. 3 rebounds and got worked over by the shorter lighter weight Paul Millsap. Also his tough talk to Pero Antic was both pointless and ultimately useless. In fact it made him look dumb because Antic didn’t even do anything to him really and the fact that Antic did not back down or even flinch. Tough man persona took a negative hit tonight. Leadership from his is almost non existent.

    Roy Hibbert: D-

    He gets a D- because he did at least attempt to get some rebounds tonight, not nearly enough but at least he tried. However do NOT let that box score fool you, 6 of those 8 points were scored well after the game was out of hand and Atlanta was taking their foot off of the gas. His blocks by Korver will probably be played ad nauseam for the next few days.

    Lance Stephenson: C-

    Not a single free throw attempt? That’s not good at all. Also I know with Lance sometimes you just have to learn to live with it but he did have quite a few times tonight that he over dribbled the ball and took the team out of their offense. Not sure if he was supposed to be on Korver or Carroll but either way it failed (same for Paul).

    George Hill: D-

    Much like Hibbert do not be fooled by those final numbers. Several of those points came after it no longer mattered. Now here is my thing, I learned along time ago that I just had to accept he was not going to be able to guard Rose, Westbrook, Wall, Irving or any of the other super athletic points in the NBA, nor would he be very good against really skilled players like Paul or Williams or even Rondo. But now I have to accept that he can not play Jeff Teague? Or Sheldon Mack for that matter. Our offense is not always his fault because of the way we play the point guard rarely touches the ball, but the defense has been abysmal. I look forward to when Watson comes in.


    Luis Scola: F

    Useless to the point of being a detriment. Poor defense, hideous shooting and no rebounding make for a very ugly game. One in which he played way too many min. in

    Evan Turner: C+

    Quietly and efficiently Turner actually had a very respectable game. Hit shots and rebounded. In fact I would say he was the Pacers most consistent player all game long if not their best.

    C.J. Watson: C+

    Why he only played 15 min. is beyond me. I guess foul trouble but then again when no one can hit a shot having the one player who can hit a shot and even a three point shot sit on your bench is probably a bad thing.

    Ian Mahinmi: C+

    Honestly just needs to get the majority of the min. in this series at the 5. His athleticism is our only hope of guarding these Atlanta bigs who spread the floor.

    Okay if you’ve stuck this far just be warned below I am going to lose the dispassionate response and am going to now give my opinion without much filter. Take it for what its worth and if you only like to hear neutral or positive things stop reading here.

    If we are going to lose to this team in the first round I am very honest about what I am about to say. I want them to get swept and just get this over with. Lose Tuesday and then just lie down and die in Atlanta so we can just get this miserable train wreck of a season over with. No I do not want the team to lose; no I am not advocating throwing games. I’m just saying if it is inevitable then I would rather not have to waste any more time going to games that are frankly boring and disheartening to watch. That way we can just go ahead and start making the off season decisions that need to be made.

    Do I think that this team is done? Well frankly, yes. I think that for reasons I mentioned above the Hawks have our number.

    Does that mean that I think that the team will certainly fall in this series? Again I will say, honestly yes I do, however I understand that adjustments can be made. However we can adjust till hell freezes over and if no one can hit an open jumper it is all for naught.

    I hope for a win on Tuesday but have pretty much convinced myself with the idea of just accepting whatever happens to happen.

    I have never in my life seen anything like this happen before and honestly I have never walked away from a playoff game so disappointed before.
    Last edited by Peck; 04-20-2014, 02:29 AM.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

    The ball movement and excessive dribbling just makes our fg attempts very, very difficult.

    If we can't contest shots and contain penetration better than we did tonight we will lose the series. The bottom line is that the Hawks won tonight and it was far from an accident.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

      *sigh*
      First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

        The worst part is, no one on the outside will know what went going wrong. It just seems the players aren't listening to the coach, every time we heard Vogel speak, he was always talking about ball movement, but no one ever moved the ball.

        How the Pacers come out in Game 2 on Tuesday will say alot about the team. If we come out as lethargic as we did today, then it's going to be a painful series.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

          Hey Pacers, what's your defense strategy? "Force teams to take long range jumpers, the worst shot you can take statistically."

          Hey Pacers, what do you love to shoot. "Long range jumpers."

          *facepalm*
          First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

            It really was tough to watch.

            We were all so excited for the regular season to be over because of what a giant mess it had become. FINALLY, we can move on to 0-0 and begin to right the ship, wipe the slate clean, and other assorted cliches.

            Instead we played a mostly uninspired first half with some good moments and some terrible moments that offset the good ones. And the third quarter, which used to be the time when the Pacers would take their opponent back behind the wood shed? Disaster. It's not like we haven't seen this repeatedly the last 25-30+ games, either...

            I said it in the postgame thread too: Honestly, I'm not really mad about this loss. I'm just sad. In general. This team is the first Pacers team to make me legitimately sad. Sure I've been sad about specific things before. Reggie retiring. Getting eliminated in the playoffs or barely missing the playoffs. But those are specific EVENTS that brought on sadness.

            This team? Their very existence is making me sad. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic or dramatic or anything, I really mean it. The fact that this team that has SO much talent, and ha(d) SO much chemistry and was SO fun to watch and cheer for is now THIS "thing" we see on the court... Even when we've won games lately, I'm still just... Ugh... Sad.

            I don't really know what else to say. I don't know what they can do to turn things around. I don't know what it would take for ME to turn my own sadness surrounding the team around.

            But I'll repeat what many have been saying in recent weeks: The way things are shaping up, this team may go down as one of the biggest collapses in NBA history. Certainly recent history at least.

            With that being said, I'll say something else I've been saying lately. I refuse to count this team out until the buzzer sounds and we lose a 4th game in a series this postseason. For all the same reasons I stated above. We DO have so much talent and we DO have such great chemistry when we play for each other and buy into team defensive and offensive concepts.

            All the ingredients are THERE, we've just forgotten how to cook. Well, it's time for this team to take another look at the cookbook, find the winning recipe we used earlier this year, and get back our home cooking for Game 2 and even this thing up. Now, like our memories of this horrid game, I will put this awful cooking analogy behind us...

            I believe we can win at least 1 game in Atlanta this series, which we now obviously have to do. I'm just praying that Frank will make the necessary adjustments for Game 2 (we all know what really NEEDS to be done, if we're being honest with ourselves) and we come out with a very high level of urgency.

            Sink or swim time. Will the team allow our on-going struggles to truly end our season? Or will we finally respond to a bit of adversity with some anger, passion and smashmouth basketball?

            I still believe.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

              Oh... I'll also use this opportunity to formally retire my "Thank You Danny" avatar. It's had it's moment in the public eye, and now that the playoffs are here it's time to move on.

              Hopefully we can overcome this Game 1 blunder and in a few weeks we will be 'Going Farder' as Luis predicted last summer.

              Good luck overcoming your Game 1 loss, Danny Granger. Godspeed. Always a Pacer!

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                TMJ, I promise you are my favorite poster ever. I envy your optimism. Hell with another jersey with one of these clowns name on the back, for Christmas next year I want your optimism.

                The sad thing is that we used to consider vnzla81, mad mad mario, hoosierguy and grimp darksiders. If the Pacers have another one of these games in game two we should start calling them prophets.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  We are the absolute worst team in the NBA at setting screens or solid picks. Our bigs do not allow contact to occur before they go running away from the dribbler. While their guards seem to have anywhere form 3 seconds to a half an hour to get off a shot or make a pass to an open big man for three.
                  This has been a constant all year and it has become increasingly obvious over the last couple of months. Any chemistry on the pick and roll that Hill and West had is gone. Paul doesn't really have any with anyone. Lance sort of still has some with West. I don't think Scola has actually set a pick in weeks. Honestly, I think the best connection has been from Turner to Ian, but ffs, you don't want Mahinmi as one of the top PnR options. It's a combination of playing for themselves and pure incompetence, but one of the simplest (yet most pivotal) plays for NBA offenses is something the Pacers are horrible at.
                  You Got The Tony!!!!!!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                    Originally posted by AesopRockOn View Post
                    This has been a constant all year and it has become increasingly obvious over the last couple of months. Any chemistry on the pick and roll that Hill and West had is gone. Paul doesn't really have any with anyone. Lance sort of still has some with West. I don't think Scola has actually set a pick in weeks. Honestly, I think the best connection has been from Turner to Ian, but ffs, you don't want Mahinmi as one of the top PnR options. It's a combination of playing for themselves and pure incompetence, but one of the simplest (yet most pivotal) plays for NBA offenses is something the Pacers are horrible at.
                    Forgive me for asking, but do we ever attempt to set screens or move? Yes, I know I am exaggerating, but it seems like our possessions consist of pounding the ball against the floor and forcing a contested jumper in the last five seconds.

                    Player movement and ball movement is just outright terrible.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                      There is no team in I.

                      That is all.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                        D- to the folks who insisted fans on the video screen to put on the gold swagger shirts. Sorry folks, XL isn't one size fits all.

                        C- for Boomer and the Power Pack. You know it's bad when the crowd gives a ho-hum for the dunking trampoline guys.
                        Last edited by RWB; 04-20-2014, 06:08 AM.
                        You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                          Are their two other allstars in the NBA outside of Hibbert & PG who are currently weaker with the basketball than these two guys? Two other allstars who consistantly have their shot altered or blocked in the painted area more often by smaller players?

                          Even if the defensive effort improves, the ball movement on offense improves or the coaches start making better adjustments the fact that these two have completely lost their aggression, confidence and mental edge tells me this post season run will likely be a short one. A perfect storm of suck seems to have been building for weeks now.
                          Last edited by Downtown Bang!; 04-20-2014, 08:35 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                            Maybe the Easter Bunny will return Roy's talent.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Round 1 Game 1 Ugh...

                              FWIW Paul dribbled the ball way to much, but I thought his effort was great. He pursued the ball like I have not seen in a while.

                              He is figuring out though that it is tough to "turn it on".

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