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Thread: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

  1. #7726
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    Can't rec this enough. I'd prefer Bledsoe over Dragic. Bledsoe plays stellar D. Give me the guys that play defense.

    Pacers have about a 5% chance of getting either though.
    Yeah, but you have to admit that being perpetually injured from season to season is a valid concern. There's a reason why an near Elite Level PG like Curry got only $11 mil a year contract.....cuz of injury concerns from year to year. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't get paid.....it just means that I can see why the Suns are hesitant to offer him the MAX.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  3. #7727
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Yeah, but you have to admit that being perpetually injured from season to season is a valid concern. There's a reason why an near Elite Level PG like Curry got only $11 mil a year contract.....cuz of injury concerns from year to year. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't get paid.....it just means that I can see why the Suns are hesitant to offer him the MAX.
    And no way should Bledsoe get the Max. I think even $12M/yr is risky. He's not quite as established as Curry, so I'd put a $10M max on him. We'll see, there are plenty of dumb GMs that love to overpay.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Harden is the SG equivalent of Melo.
    Does anybody remember the days early in Harden's career (I'm talking his rookie season and maybe his second season in the league) where he was actually considered a good defender?

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Does anybody remember the days early in Harden's career (I'm talking his rookie season and maybe his second season in the league) where he was actually considered a good defender?
    Nope. You're hallucinating again.

  7. #7730
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...reggie-jackson

    NewsOK.com reports that the Thunder are "unlikely" to reach a deal with point guard Reggie Jackson on an extension before the October 31st deadline.

    The Thunder would prefer to lock up Jackson this offseason, but that's not likely. It's possible that Jackson plays for a contract in each of the next two seasons in Oklahoma City, which generally motivates a guy rather well, although if Jackson already wasn't given his full focus and energy, Presti misread that DNA.

    via OKC Thunder: Keeping Reggie Jackson is a priority, but it won't be easy | News OK.

    Jackson averaged 13.1 points per game last season for the Thunder along with 3.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists. He was vital in filling in for Russell Westbrook when he was injured and his ability to stretch the floor (34 percent from 3-point land last season) eventually convinced coach Scott Brooks to put him next to Westbrook at two-guard.

    But that move also was more out of a lack of better options than anything. The Thunder need a legitimate two-guard to spread the floor and help out defensively; free-agent signee Anthony Morrow is unlikely to be that guy as he's traditionally been a bench shooter.

    Jackson honestly might have more value on the trade market, which might provide the Thunder an opportunity to bring in some quality depth along with a viable two-guard. Jackson's proven he can be a legitimate starting point guard, and if a team believes in his long-term development, they might be willing to give up short-term assets for him.

    The Thunder have been exceptionally patient with their approach to team-building, but looking to extend Jackson long-term, at a position they already have a top-ten player at, might be too far. The Thunder have some time, though. Jackson's set to be a restricted free agent next summer, at which point if the Thunder need to, they can match any offer for him, or hope that threat drowns the offers for him, as it has with Eric Bledsoe and the Suns.
    If we look to move West or Hibbert this season to some other Team....I'd be looking for cap relief to make a run at a new Starting PG. I wouldn't mind looking at Jackson as a cheaper Starting PG option in the offseason. I can see him getting something close to what GH got on the open market at $8 to 9 mil a year
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  8. #7731

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Someone wake up Grimp....that's his cue.

    I wonder what Bledsoe and his agent want for a contract.

    At a minimum....we are talking about $13 to 15+ mil a year?

    I like Bledsoe as a Player....but he's injury prone.....anyone taking him on would be a huge gamble.

    Maybe I'd consider a $15 mil a year / 3rd Year Player option if it meant giving up either Hibbert or ( more than likely ) West ( with West maybe going to a 3rd Team )?

    LMAO! Hey, I am all for Indy going after him. It would allow us to unload salary and get back something we need. I think they'd be interested in one of our bigs. What else we'd have to give up is the question. Also pulling in a 3rd team? Phx, Indy, and Boston had talks earlier in the Summer. Why not re-ignite those talks and get Rondo to Phoenix? We get Bledsoe, and maybe some picks head to Boston along with Alex Len or something?

    Option #2? Bledsoe to Boston? Bledsoe to OKC? Jackson to Indiana or Rondo to Indiana? OKC could give Phoenix Lamb and maybe Collison or Adams. We send West or Roy to OKC and get Jackson back. In the case of Boston, Rondo to Indy, Bledsoe to Boston. Sullinger or Olynyk, or Zeller and maybe Jeff Green to Phoenix.
    Last edited by Grimp; 08-21-2014 at 06:14 PM.

  9. #7732
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    LMAO! Hey, I am all for Indy going after him. It would allow us to unload salary and get back something we need. I think they'd be interested in one of our bigs. What else we'd have to give up is the question. Also pulling in a 3rd team? Phx, Indy, and Boston had talks earlier in the Summer. Why not re-ignite those talks and get Rondo to Phoenix? We get Bledsoe, and maybe some picks head to Boston along with Alex Len or something?

    Option #2? Bledsoe to Boston? Bledsoe to OKC? Jackson to Indiana or Rondo to Indiana? OKC could give Phoenix Lamb and maybe Collison or Adams. We send West or Roy to OKC and get Jackson back. In the case of Boston, Rondo to Indy, Bledsoe to Boston. Sullinger or Olynyk, or Zeller and maybe Jeff Green to Phoenix.
    If we are able to get any of those Players while getting back a expiring Contract ( to allow us to re-sign that Player ), I am okay with giving up JUST Hibbert or ( more than likely ) West in any such trade. But any additional assets beyond that ( like giving up a future 1st or Solo ) is giving up too much assets to acquire any Player. As I said in your Trade Proposal thread, sending any additional assets with Hibbert or West is a "PASS" for me. I could care less that a Player like Rondo, Bledsoe or Jackson is available.....the asking price would be too much.

    However, before you wet yourself with the various options you mention ( and continue to mention )....I suspect that Hibbert or West ( whether he is traded to Boston, Phoenix, OKC or whatever 3rd Team that would net some assets ) doesn't have enough value to fit option 1 or 2 that you are suggesting above. You're asking for too much in return in both scenarios.

    In regards to Bledsoe....I don't think that Bird would want to overpay for Bledsoe at that the MAX Level offer that he is wanting ( given that he didn't want to overpay for Lance ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #7733
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Nope. You're hallucinating again.
    Crap. They told me those mushrooms were Portobello...

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  12. #7734

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If we are able to get any of those Players while getting back a expiring Contract ( to allow us to re-sign that Player ), I am okay with giving up JUST Hibbert or ( more than likely ) West in any such trade. But any additional assets beyond that ( like giving up a future 1st or Solo ) is giving up too much assets to acquire any Player. As I said in your Trade Proposal thread, sending any additional assets with Hibbert or West is a "PASS" for me. I could care less that a Player like Rondo, Bledsoe or Jackson is available.....the asking price would be too much.

    However, before you wet yourself with the various options you mention ( and continue to mention )....I suspect that Hibbert or West ( whether he is traded to Boston, Phoenix, OKC or whatever 3rd Team that would net some assets ) doesn't have enough value to fit option 1 or 2 that you are suggesting above. You're asking for too much in return in both scenarios.

    In regards to Bledsoe....I don't think that Bird would want to overpay for Bledsoe at that the MAX Level offer that he is wanting ( given that he didn't want to overpay for Lance ).

    I think Lance's antics are what cost him. I think if Lance doesn't blow in Lebron's face in the ECF, they would've made a better offer. Lance wasn't getting anything in Bledsoe's range anyways, but in our case we NEED a PG bad. Plus, it would be nice to have a "piece" waiting for when PG gets back. As for value, if we get one of those 3 out of the deal just for dealing West or Roy it's all good. We don't need anything else back, although I'd love for us to get Jeff Green if it's Rondo coming here, just to start in place of PG for this season.

  13. #7735
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Crap. They told me those mushrooms were Portobello...
    Could have been the Dr. Pepper. It always gets me.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.




    Adonis Thomas coming to Pacers training camp.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Relatively minor trade:

    Minnesota trades: 2014 Miami first-round pick (via Cleveland), Alexey Shved, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
    Philadelphia trades: ​Thaddeus Young

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If we look to move West or Hibbert this season to some other Team....I'd be looking for cap relief to make a run at a new Starting PG. I wouldn't mind looking at Jackson as a cheaper Starting PG option in the offseason. I can see him getting something close to what GH got on the open market at $8 to 9 mil a year
    I like Jackson, but like George Hill I think he is a combo guard.

  18. #7739
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUpaceSIC View Post
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    Adonis Thomas coming to Pacers training camp.
    Very athletic, very raw. Think Stephen Graham, who played a couple of seasons for us in the bad old days. Given the huge hole in our wing rotation, I think Thomas may have a decent chance to make the team.

  19. #7740
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I like Jackson, but like George Hill I think he is a combo guard.
    2 things separate Hill from Jackson though. 1. Jackson thinks he's a pg, while Hill does not. You have to have the mentality of a pg to play it. Hill does not and it shows on the court by his lack of aggressiveness. Jackson is very aggressive. 2. Improvement at the pg position. I see Jackson as more of a Jrue Holiday/Eric Bledsoe pg. Holiday and Blesdoe are more of a combo guards too, but these guys work at playing the point and have showed improvements. Hill isn't a combo guard. He's one hell of an undersized 2.

    I wanted Jrue coming out of the draft a few years ago and I never imagined him averaging 8 dimes/gm. He's shown real improvements at the pg position. I think Reggie can do the same. Maybe not 8 dimes, since this is the Pacers we are talking about but easily 5 or 6.

    I'd love Jackson over Hill.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

  20. #7741
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    I don't know where to post this, so... here is as good as any place I suppose. It's not thread worthy, I'm just bored. If hindsight were 20/20 and are roster had been:

    Roy Hibbert, Ian Mahinimi
    David West, Miles Plumlee, Chris Copeland
    Kawahi Leonard, Danny Granger, Solomon Hill
    Paul George, Gerald Green, Rasual Butler
    Lance Stephenson, CJ Watson, Donald Sloan

    Would we have beaten Miami and or San Antonio the past couple of here?

    That roster would have made us bigger, more athletic and we'd have more flexibility with lineups. I know Stephenson isn't a point guard and George flourished once he moved from shooting guard to small forward. But, our point guard play has been suspect and both Stephenson/PG were essentially playing point a lot of the time anyways. That line up would allow two point guards that could play shooting guard if needed. Two shooting guards that could play small forward if needed. Two small forwards that could play power forward, though Granger at pf is not ideal though he has. Two power forwards that could play center, again though, West isn't ideal at c but he's done it.

    And keep in mind, that would mean San Antonio would be without their finals MVP and we'd have said MVP on our roster.

    So, how far do we go if we essentially stood pat on the trade market the past couple of years? The only trade in there that I recall to create that line up is Collison for Mahinimi(not going back as far as Hibbert). Scratch Leonard for Hill, Plumlee, Green, 1st for Scola, and Granger for Turner/Lavoy... that could have been our team. I don't think I made a mistake in that roster having been a possibility but maybe. Let me know if I'm incorrect.

    So, again... I'm just doing this because I'm bored. Hopefully people are more inclined to play along rather than say "who cares" . So, would we win a title with that line up or would Miami/San Antonio knock us out the past couple seasons anyways?

  21. #7742
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Minnesota actually got a pretty good package for Love. Hate that Love will be in our division with freakin' Lebron though. And the Sixers... ew. They didn't even get Anthony Bennett.

    Cavs receive: Kevin Love

    Wolves receive: Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Thaddeus Young, 1st Round Pick

    Sixers receive: Alexey Shved, Luc Richard Mbah A Moute, 1st Round Pick


    The Sixers board was speculating they'd get Miami's 1st earlier today before the trade was agreed to, but if it ends up being the Cavs 1st it will probably be between 25-30 which makes the Sixers deal pretty worthless. The ESPN article says it's a future 1st round though so it could be the Wolves. In which case, that still might be a low pick in a couple years depending on the impact Wiggins can have and the growth of the Wolves youngsters.

    Wolves have a nice combination of youth with potential while also having a solid core of veterans. The additions of Wiggins and Young alone could be an improvement. It gives them more depth and who knows what Wiggins is capable of. Also, if Rubio ever breaks out like everyone thought he would when he was drafted, that team could be gooood.

    19yrs -- 1st pick in 2014 Andrew Wiggins
    19yrs - 13th pick in 2014 - Zach Levine
    21yrs -- 1st pick in 2013 - Anthony Bennett
    21yrs - 14th pick in 2013 - Shabazz Muhammad
    23yrs -- 5th pick in 2009 - Ricky Rubio
    23yrs - 21st pick in 2013 - Gorgui Dieng

    Youngsters as a roster...
    C: Gorgui Dieng
    F: Anthony Bennett
    F: Andrew Wiggins
    G: Shabazz Muhammad or Zach Levine
    G: Ricky Rubio

    Veterans as a roster...
    Nikola Pekovic, Ronny Turiaf
    Thaddeus Young, Dante Cunningham
    Corey Brewer, Chase Budinger
    Kevin Martin
    JJ Barea, Mo Williams

    Combined...
    Nikola Pekovic, Gorgui Dieng, Ronny Turiaf
    Thaddeus Young, Anthony Bennett, Dante Cunningham
    Andrew Wiggins, Chase Budinger, Shabazz Muhammad
    Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer, Zach Lavine
    Ricky Rubio, JJ Barea, Mo Williams

    They have what could be a promising lineup of youngsters from 1 through 5, and their veterans alone aren't the worst thing I've ever seen. I actually could have listed Rubio with the vets and had Lavine as the youngsters starting point but meh. Also, I didn't list Glenn Rice III because he was the 40th pick. But, he's only 20, was a good college player and his dad was a pretty good player himself. Wouldn't be surprised if he made it in the league. I'd say waive Turiaf to keep him but none of there power forwards can slide to center. They'd be pretty screwed if one of their two centers got hurt. They want to get rid of Budinger so maybe trade him or Barea who they are also looking to get rid of I believe. Package them two for one and then you don't have to waive anyone to keep GRIII.

    After writing this post, wow... I must be bored. It's still only 12 in the afternoon but feels like it's 4 or 5. Having a day off while everyone else is at work can be rather boring.
    "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."

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  23. #7743
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by spreedom View Post
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    Relatively minor trade:

    Minnesota trades: 2014 Miami first-round pick (via Cleveland), Alexey Shved, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
    Philadelphia trades: ​Thaddeus Young
    Wait....I know that there has been rumors that the TWolves would not include Bennett....but is this the official trade of Young?

    If that is the case, then the Sixers are building the worst hodge-podge NBA Lottery Team that I have seen. We all know that they are purposely tanking....but geez.......start building a real team at some point.
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-22-2014 at 02:09 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Wait....I know that there has been rumors that the TWolves would not include Bennett....but is this the official trade of Young?

    If that is the case, then the Sixers are building the worst hodge-podge NBA Lottery Team that I have seen. We all know that they are purposely tanking....but geez.......start building a real team at some point.
    I wouldn't mind if they shuttled Mbah a Moute our way. He's a low cost guy who would fit in well here because he's an excellent defender and also an offense virgin.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    2 things separate Hill from Jackson though. 1. Jackson thinks he's a pg, while Hill does not. You have to have the mentality of a pg to play it. Hill does not and it shows on the court by his lack of aggressiveness. Jackson is very aggressive. 2. Improvement at the pg position. I see Jackson as more of a Jrue Holiday/Eric Bledsoe pg. Holiday and Blesdoe are more of a combo guards too, but these guys work at playing the point and have showed improvements. Hill isn't a combo guard. He's one hell of an undersized 2.

    I wanted Jrue coming out of the draft a few years ago and I never imagined him averaging 8 dimes/gm. He's shown real improvements at the pg position. I think Reggie can do the same. Maybe not 8 dimes, since this is the Pacers we are talking about but easily 5 or 6.

    I'd love Jackson over Hill.
    How does one figure that Jackson "thinks" he's a PG? He's basically been in the same role in OKC that Hill was in SA--a starting qyality combo guard coming off the bench playing to his strengths while playing with other star players.

    Last year he was very very aggressive, I will give you that. But with the absence of Harden and Martin after him, Jackson simply assumed the offensively aggressive 6th man role that Brooks employs within his lineup.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 08-23-2014 at 08:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cdash
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    Yeah, that's the problem. I don't think anyone on this board is as big of a jerk in person as they come across on here. Except maybe Nuntius. Dude is impossibly nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    He is a saint, cdash. If a mosquito landed on his arm trying to bite him he would tell it " Go on son, do your thing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I wouldn't mind if they shuttled Mbah a Moute our way. He's a low cost guy who would fit in well here because he's an excellent defender and also an offense virgin.
    Supposedly Philly wanted him to mentor Embiid. They're reportedly close, as they're both from Cameroon.

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  29. #7747
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by MUpaceSIC View Post
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    Adonis Thomas coming to Pacers training camp.
    Adonis Thomas is a extremely talented. I hope he can make the team.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  30. #7748
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    So if you're interested in cap minutae, it looks like the Kevin Love deal will actually be 3 separate trades.

    Trade 1: Kevin Love to Philadelphia for Thaddeus Young
    Trade 2: Kevin Love to Cleveland for Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, and Miami's 1st round draft pick.
    Trade 3: Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett to Minnesota for Luc Richard Mbah a Moute and Alexey Shved.

    This means two things.
    1. Kevin Love, Andrew Wiggins, and Anthony Bennett can't be traded to Philadelphia this season, in addition to Cleveland and Minnesota, respectively. That ultimately doesn't matter.
    2. Minnesota will get around a $6.3 million trade exception, expiring a year from today. That could matter, and is probably the reason Minnesota wanted it structured this way.

    This is only if you're interested in salary cap minutae. The same players (and pick) are going to the same teams.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Just saw a Windhorst article about the Kevin Love trade. It made me wonder if ESPN still has the 'Heat Index'... nope. Man, ESPN is such bias garbage. Why couldn't they have just added ESPN Miami without forcing Heat/Lebron articles down our throat daily? The fact that Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles and New York all have their own pages but Miami doesn't should tell you what a p.o.s city Miami is and the fans are nothing but p.o.s. bandwagon fans.

    The NBA, ESPN and Lebron were probably all in cahoots when he went to Miami just so Stern and his lackeys(refs) could rig the league one more time and bring in the cash. Probably even rigged the Cavs drafts just so Lebron would come back and try to make him loveable after everyone hated him for his national television decision. Everything that's gone down is kind of like pro wrestling. Everyone loves Hulk Hogan until he joins the NWO. Despite hating him, it poured in the ratings. Then before his career is over, they make him a good guy so everyone loves him. I'm sure Stern groomed baldie to carry the torch. Maybe he can rig some more drafts, ignore tampering by teams/players and nix some trades like Chris Paul to the Clippers instead of the Lakers so Clippers could be turned into a two billion dollar franchise. Lakers will always be popular, now the Clippers are too. It's amazing to me how small market teams never have talent to trade from big named players anymore. NBA really should get rid of the no trade clause, it's bs. All it does is allow start players to force their way into a large market while screwing over small market teams. They tell the team they'll only go to New York or Los Angeles or they'll walk. Then small market teams have to take whatever scraps the large market teams had to offer or they get nothing. Pretty neat system. Does NFL even have trade clauses?

    Sorry for my rant of the day . But ESPN sucks. As does David Stern. Lebron doesn't suck, he's a good basketball player but he's still jackoff. "Hey guys, let's throw an hour long bash on ESPN to tell the world I'm ditching my hometown team because I told Pat Riley I was coming to Miami and that he needed to trade everyone on roster for expiring contracts even if it meant trading the #2 overall pick in his second season for a 2nd round pick. Come'on guys, what's wrong with that? I'm the king and I break the rules if I want. And I know I'm the king because I'm the one who gave myself the nickname and tattooed it on my back. I'm not arrogant, I'm also not a hypocrite. I get why some people might think that after saying Donald Sterling should no longer be in the league because of his racist comments and I paid off a valet that my mom made racist comments toward. That's different though, she's my mom and she's not white so you can't compare the two"...... I really am done now. I just dislike Lebron, the Heat, Stern, ESPN, all of them. This all started due to the fact that ESPN had a writer and a page dedicated to the Heat which always annoyed me and come to find out, they took it down. This is after they televised a huge bash for Lebron to begin with and proceeded to follow it up with a page essentially dedicated to him. That's garbage Anyways, hope everyone is has a good weekend . I think I need a beer.
    "I have never taken the high road, but I tell other people to ’cause then there’s more room for me on the low road."

  33. #7750
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    That may be the longest misguided rant Ive ever read here. Like, there are literally dozens of points and maybe one or two of them has any merit whatsoever. That's impressive.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
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