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Thread: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    What the hell happened to this thread?

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  3. #7502
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by khaos01207 View Post
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    Lol, at full force there is no team in the world that can beat the USA.
    Except if you do what some are suggesting here, it's unlikely we'd ever field the level of team you assume.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    This makes no sense at all. You think Paul George should be punished for choosing to represent his country because it isn't on his owner's dime? That's a slave mentality. What if he was injured while working out or practicing? Or driving himself to practice? Exactly what should he have the permission to do without assuming some massive risk should a freak accident occur?

    The players have insurance. George and his employer have minimal financial risk. It's selfish and borderline inhuman to punish him for getting hurt while performing normal activities.

    You think George really feels like he's in a "win-win" situation right now?
    Actually that is a business mentality. If players are going to play in the summer and risk being injured it decreases their value to the owners. This is nothing more than simple economics.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeRyan07 View Post
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    I think it's kind of silly that there is even a world cup for basketball. USA is gonna take it every time.
    That must be why they've only won it once in the last 20 years.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Actually that is a business mentality. If players are going to play in the summer and risk being injured it decreases their value to the owners. This is nothing more than simple economics.
    FYI, slavery IS a business mentality.

    Telling your employees to be responsible and demanding control over their entire lives are two separate things entirely.

    No one here is losing money over Paul George getting injured. Simon isn't hurting for cash either. The bottom line is George just de-valued what some of you see as pacer property, and you want to punish him for it.

    I'll say it again: more players have died in auto accidents than have been seriously injured playing for team USA. Should players be forced to stay out of cars too? If basketball is going to be considered an unacceptable risk than you're basically telling Paul George his entire life belongs to the pacers.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-15-2014 at 08:25 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    FYI, slavery IS a business mentality.

    Telling your employees to be responsible and demanding control over their entire lives are two separate things entirely.
    It all depends on what is written in the contract. Nobody is being forced to sign it.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It all depends on what is written in the contract. Nobody is being forced to sign it.
    They could always write in the contract that the pacers have rights to any offspring he might produce, since we're going to venture into the absurd...he doesn't have to sign it, right?

    It simply isn't going to happen, given that nba owners aren't stupid enough to dehumanize their own employees. The union would fight them tooth and nail and destroy them in the court of public opinion.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-15-2014 at 08:31 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    They could always write in the contract that the pacers have rights to any offspring he might produce, since we're going to venture into the absurd...

    It simply isn't going to happen, given that nba owners aren't stupid enough to dehumanize their own employees.
    The owners are going to do whatever's in their self interest. If that means they want to avoid contracts of players who are injured during the summer that's their prerogative. Nobody has to sign that contract but it does make economic sense.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The owners are going to do whatever's in their self interest. If that means they want to avoid contracts of players who are injured during the summer that's their prerogative. Nobody has to sign that contract but it does make economic sense.
    So players should be banned from working out, driving cars, mowing their own lawns too, etc. that makes sense too, right? They should probably be banned from eating non-nutritional foods as well.

    The players don't have to sign that contract, therefore owners are justified in putting anything they want in there and say "take it or leave it." Need to keep that company property as peak value.

    I'm guessing the owners best interest does not include publicly reducing their players from human beings to shiny possessions and publicly going to war with them over the ability to do so.

    The owners need the players as much as the players need the nba. It's in their best interest not to **** them off over petty stuff like this.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-15-2014 at 08:50 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I'll say it again: more players have died in auto accidents than have been seriously injured playing for team USA. Should players be forced to stay out of cars too? If basketball is going to be considered an unacceptable risk than you're basically telling Paul George his entire life belongs to the pacers.
    Reminds me of Jay Williams. His contract forbid him to ride motorcycles. He rode them anyway, crashed and ruined his career. The Bulls had the option of voiding his contract. Instead they agreed to a buyout.

    ...
    Terms of Williams' contract prohibited him from riding motorcycles, and the Bulls could have voided his contract.

    "The buyout says a whole lot," Duffy said. "You can't say enough about (Bulls chairman) Jerry Reinsdorf's willingness to handle this from the time it happened. His communication with the family and Jay and his concern, he handled it very well. People talk about the cold and calculating nature of sports, but he was willing to help him. He hasn't penalized him as harshly as he could have for the mistake he made. That's refreshing in the current business climate of this country."
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...s-buyout_x.htm

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Riding a motorcycle is needlessly reckless. Playing basketball is not.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  18. #7512

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What the hell happened to this thread?
    Mid August in the off season happened.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    FYI, slavery IS a business mentality.

    Telling your employees to be responsible and demanding control over their entire lives are two separate things entirely.

    No one here is losing money over Paul George getting injured. Simon isn't hurting for cash either. The bottom line is George just de-valued what some of you see as pacer property, and you want to punish him for it.

    I'll say it again: more players have died in auto accidents than have been seriously injured playing for team USA. Should players be forced to stay out of cars too? If basketball is going to be considered an unacceptable risk than you're basically telling Paul George his entire life belongs to the pacers.
    Many pro teams have rules and contract language concerning things like motorcycles, sky diving, etc. Why? To protect an investment.

    Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with this. No one is out there with whips and chains.

    When did slaves become multi-millionaires?

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  22. #7514

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    No one here is losing money over Paul George getting injured.
    I'll disagree. There will be a drop in ticket sales, parking revenue, merchandise sales, restaurant business, etc ......

    Seems like there's quite a bit of people being financially impacted.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    FYI, slavery IS a business mentality.

    Telling your employees to be responsible and demanding control over their entire lives are two separate things entirely.

    No one here is losing money over Paul George getting injured. Simon isn't hurting for cash either. The bottom line is George just de-valued what some of you see as pacer property, and you want to punish him for it.

    I'll say it again: more players have died in auto accidents than have been seriously injured playing for team USA. Should players be forced to stay out of cars too? If basketball is going to be considered an unacceptable risk than you're basically telling Paul George his entire life belongs to the pacers.
    What do you suppose the ratio of the number of players who get in a car compared to the number who make team USA is?

    I'm sorry, but that is a horrible comparison.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    So players should be banned from working out, driving cars, mowing their own lawns too, etc. that makes sense too, right? They should probably be banned from eating non-nutritional foods as well.

    The players don't have to sign that contract, therefore owners are justified in putting anything they want in there and say "take it or leave it." Need to keep that company property as peak value.

    I'm guessing the owners best interest does not include publicly reducing their players from human beings to shiny possessions and publicly going to war with them over the ability to do so.

    The owners need the players as much as the players need the nba. It's in their best interest not to **** them off over petty stuff like this.
    It is indeed true that the owners should submit a contract that is to their own benefit. If they **** off the players, it may not to their benefit. If it's completely one-sided (on either side) that is fine too...but is irrelevant. People do not contract with each other to provide some kind of charitable gift to another group of people.

    It is a business owned by the owners. The players are assets to the business who also have their own businesses they run, normally in the form of endorsements or marketing their name & image. The player's economic opportunity depends on what they are worth to the market whether that is the NBA or other companies who want them to endorse products. The contract isn't about limiting anyone's rights as much as it is enforcing rights under the contract. It's about making money and that's all it is.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That must be why they've only won it once in the last 20 years.
    They also been winning in the Olympics too. Which is probably more important than the basketball world cup

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeRyan07 View Post
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    They also been winning in the Olympics too. Which is probably more important than the basketball world cup
    Which has nothing to do with your previous statement that thence wins it all the time, which they don't.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It is indeed true that the owners should submit a contract that is to their own benefit. If they **** off the players, it may not to their benefit. If it's completely one-sided (on either side) that is fine too...but is irrelevant. People do not contract with each other to provide some kind of charitable gift to another group of people.

    It is a business owned by the owners. The players are assets to the business who also have their own businesses they run, normally in the form of endorsements or marketing their name & image. The player's economic opportunity depends on what they are worth to the market whether that is the NBA or other companies who want them to endorse products. The contract isn't about limiting anyone's rights as much as it is enforcing rights under the contract. It's about making money and that's all it is.
    And it doesn't mean they can control their entire lives because they pay them. That's the point you keep missing. They are assets yes, but not property.

    Playing basketball is not an inherently risky activity. It's actually what they do for a living. As a human being I'm insulted that anyone would suggest they should only be allowed to play basketball when their nba team says it's okay. Then again, I have the ability to respect the nba as a business and not see the players on my team as my personal property.

    The players won't support a league that demands that disgusting sort of control over them and I wouldn't either. If the owners want to lose the next lockout, by all means go ahead and try it.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-15-2014 at 10:57 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    And it doesn't mean they can control their entire lives because they pay them. That's the point you keep missing. They are assets yes, but not property.

    Playing basketball is not an inhenremtly risky activity. It's actually what they do for a living. As a human being I'm insulted that anyone would suggest they should only be allowed to play basksetball when their nba team says it's okay. Then aingain, I have the ability to respect the nba as a business and not see the players on my team as my personal property.
    QFT
    Last edited by immortality; 08-15-2014 at 10:54 PM.

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  31. #7521
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Jesus that's a lot of typos. Fing iPad

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    And it doesn't mean they can control their entire lives because they pay them. That's the point you keep missing. They are assets yes, but not property.

    Playing basketball is not an inherently risky activity. It's actually what they do for a living. As a human being I'm insulted that anyone would suggest they should only be allowed to play basketball when their nba team says it's okay. Then again, I have the ability to respect the nba as a business and not see the players on my team as my personal property.

    The players won't support a league that demands that disgusting sort of control over them and I wouldn't either. If the owners want to lose the next lockout, by all means go ahead and try it.
    No one is being forced or controlled without them submitting to an agreement. They are free to sign OR not sign. IF they submit to it, THEY are making the decision to agree to a particular business relationship. You seem to think they have to sign, which just isn't true. They could go get a job like everyone else on the planet. 100% free to do that. NOBODY is forcing them to sign a single piece of paper.

    Edit: BTW, the NBA is treating the NBA players better than typical employees. Most employees can be fired for no reason. These players have guaranteed contracts. They are paid incredible amounts of money to play a child's game. Do they have highly sought after skills? Most definitely, but the NBA isn't abusing them. They are employees of the league who have greater rights and financial rewards than most people in the entire world. These are not commodities that may be replaced easily. They are highly valuable to the NBA franchises, no different than a factory in terms of business value. They will try to protect that asset and quite frankly they have a business need to do that. Does it restrain the player's rights to do anything they want? Maybe if that is the agreement. But to say the NBA does not have a business interest in their players being healthy and able to perform is pure fantasy. If they didn't protect their assets they would quickly go out of business. None of this is personal and the players already understand that.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 08-15-2014 at 11:41 PM.

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  34. #7523

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Pacers have 23 games next season where the other team is on the second half of a back to back. That's tied for 8th with TOR and MEM. Utah has the most with 27 games and OKC the least with 10. CLE has only 11. Given the expectations of this season, having a soft spot [or 23] in the schedule has to help.

    Link
    Last edited by xIndyFan; 08-15-2014 at 11:38 PM.

  35. #7524
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I'm not missing anything. They are free to sign OR not sign. IF they submit to it, THEY are making the decision to agree to a particular business relationship. You seem to think they have to sign, which just isn't true. They could go get a job like everyone else on the planet. 100% free to do that. NOBODY is forcing them to sign a single piece of paper.
    They aren't allowed to put that on the paper, thankfully. It's called collective bargaining. Fortunately the players have enough clout where the nba cant treat them like things.

    The arrogant mentality of "I dare you to not sign it and get a regular job" doesn't apply here.

    Paul George is not and will never be anyone's property, no matter how much you might wish he was. He's an asset but he's also a human being and playing basketball is what he does for a living.

    The hypocrites who whine about players playing basketball in their off time are the same type of people that whine when a player isn't spending his summers working hard and getting better. But that's perfectly okay, just don't get hurt while doing it. Then we have to punish you for damaging company property.
    Last edited by Kstat; 08-15-2014 at 11:52 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    If teams can't keep players from playing, how did the Spurs do so with Manu? I really don't care either way, but if I was a contender ready to go for a ring I might ask the player to consider not playing.

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