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Thread: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

  1. #6976
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Well, if they are interested in dumping Ellington while shedding some Salary from their Books ( remember, they are over the LT and Scola is only owed $1.9 mil while Ellington and Shumpert is owed $5.3 mil ).....I'd ask for Shumpert
    Switch that to JR Smith and Phil might do it. He hasn't said a word but I can't imagine he's the kind of player he wants around.

    And for those who miss Stephenson look at it this way - you get to enjoy similar stupid antics but without being distracted by irrelevancies like potential and talent (JR actually has talent but as for what he's going to do with it, well, that ship done sailed IMO).
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Matt Walsh of Florida fame chimes in on Becky Hammon...







    The irony in this is Hammon only has to last a few days into the season to have a longer NBA career than he had....
    Saved by the Bell reference from Walsh.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  3. #6978

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Unless I am getting Tim Hardaway Jr or maybe Shane Larkin back, I want nothing the Knicks can offer...unless they are giving away draft picks again...

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    We shouldn't gift wrap him the starting position either. If he can't earn his own minutes in a Miles, Stuckey, and Marion rotation then he's simply not that good. Paul George started from the bench and carved out his own minutes. Let the kid earn it.

    These guys are older veterans who have been in the league for a while. You honestly think that 23 year old Solomon Hill, with his 200 minutes of NBA experience, should be on par with Shawn Marion right off the bat? Shawn Marion started 76 games for a damn good Dallas team last year and is just a few years removed from being a beast on a championship Dallas team.

    Solomon Hill is never going to be good until he gets the chance to make the mistakes that all young players make. He's going to be sloppy at first - there's just no way around that. But if he's a guy who you want to be a part of the future, then this is the year that you throw him out there nonstop so that he can learn how to play against NBA competition. Bringing in Shawn Marion so that he can maybe squeeze out a few more wins and earn us the right to get slaughtered by Cleveland really isn't going to help us that much in the long term.

    Yeah PG carved out a role relatively quick, but he's also one of the best talents in the league. Solo is never going to be that good, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't give him a lot of time this year to learn how to play.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Why does everyone think that the only way for a player to develop is to play starter minutes? It's like there's no such thing as earning a spot or practicing or even that it's better to play minutes against talent close to your same level. It's like the only way to get better is to get your clock cleaned against the top starters in the game over and over and over and over again.

    Why suddenly is it impossible to develop into a good player by working in practice, playing more minutes against better players as you get better, and finally earning major minutes or a starter spot? It's as if not throwing a player into games no matter how well he does in practice is stunting his growth.

    Let me make it clear - there is NO WAY starters should play the kind of minutes they played last year UNLESS a miracle happens and somehow all cylinders are clicking and we're winning lots of games. IF we are playing as expected, then the bench should get more minutes against opposition bench players. However, I don't see how it helps to make a guy with very little experience the best guy at his position on the team by default. Who does he learn from? How does he learn how NOT to make the mistakes? Just making a mistake doesn't automatically mean you won't make it again...
    BillS

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  8. #6981

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    The only source I've seen say we were actually pursuing Marion is RealGM, which isn't trustworthy at all. Stein said he would fit here, but I don't think he said anything about either side discussing anything.

    Marion is going to a contender, and building this hypothetical playing time situation is like discussing the team after the Goran Dragic trade which will never happen.

  9. #6982

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    That or the Pacers simply just ride it out with Hibbert and West....let them come off the books after the summer of 2016-2017 and then have a ton of CapSpace in the 2016-2017 season.

    What Teams usually want Expiring Contracts?

    Teams that have big longer term contracts that they want to get rid of.

    Trading the Expiring Contracts of West/Hibbert in the 2015-2016 offseason will get you that....assets and accompanying long-term contracts that you don't want.

    IMHO....any move that the Pacers make should be based off of the assumption that they will clear a TON of CapSpace in the 2016-2017 season.


    Roy and West can opt OUT next Summer though right? I would rather move West and Hill next Summer though. Or at the trade deadline. You could find a taker for West at the deadline if some team has exceeded expectations in the 1st half of the season? And think he could help them make the playoffs? And they're under the cap or can send us back an expiring. Then we try and move Hill next Summer. I think with those two gone, plus money coming off with our bench, and if we can find a home for Ian's final year of like $1 mil or something left?......we'd have enough money to sign Dragic and probably both Morris twins. Marcus replaces West, Markieff replaces Copeland off the bench. Next Summer is our ONLY shot at a point guard upgrade. Rondo and Goran will be free agents, we have to get at least one of them. Otherwise, our dreams of a point guard upgrade go up in smoke.
    Last edited by Grimp; 08-06-2014 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #6983

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    If you think that Roy is going to opt out of a max deal early, then you need to lay off the ganja.
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  12. #6984
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Roy and West can opt OUT next Summer though right? I would rather move West and Hill next Summer though. Or at the trade deadline. You could find a taker for West at the deadline if some team has exceeded expectations in the 1st half of the season? And think he could help them make the playoffs? And they're under the cap or can send us back an expiring. Then we try and move Hill next Summer. I think with those two gone, plus money coming off with our bench, and if we can find a home for Ian's final year of like $1 mil or something left?......we'd have enough money to sign Dragic and probably both Morris twins. Marcus replaces West, Markieff replaces Copeland off the bench. Next Summer is our ONLY shot at a point guard upgrade. Rondo and Goran will be free agents, we have to get at least one of them. Otherwise, our dreams of a point guard upgrade go up in smoke.
    So, your plan is to do a complete Salary dump of all the Players that you want gone just to clear CapSpace to go after Rondo or Dragic?

    You're essentially writing off the entire season and dumping talent while getting back ( likely ) less talent. Good luck with that......I just don't see the Pacers getting back any real value that will help us this season. I know that many here would just want to skip ahead to the 2015-2016 season, completely scrap the current roster for CapSpace when PG24 returns....but I don't see Bird considering that at all.

    Also.....you don't think that there are going to be other Teams gunning for Rondo or Dragic?

    The Lakers Knicks are gearing up for a complete roster revamp with A TON of CapSpace to make a MAX Level offer at either of them.
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-06-2014 at 01:41 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that many here would just want to skip ahead to the 2015-2016 season, completely scrap the current roster for CapSpace when PG24 returns....but I don't see Bird considering that at all.
    The real problem here is that you don't just tank for one year. Roster overhauls take multiple season (3-5) to work themselves out, to find the right pieces. If we just started shedding players, we'd be telling PG "Can't wait for you to comeback! Don't worry about those first few years back, you'll look like Kyrie Irving until we can sort the garbage out and replace it with decent pieces. We'll waste the majority of your contract trying to get back to being a contender, so hopefully you get one good year out of the 5! And more importantly, hopefully that won't drive you away."

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  15. #6986

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    So, your plan is to do a complete Salary dump of all the Players that you want gone just to clear CapSpace to go after Rondo or Dragic?

    You're essentially writing off the entire season and dumping talent while getting back ( likely ) less talent. Good luck with that......I just don't see the Pacers getting back any real value that will help us this season. I know that many here would just want to skip ahead to the 2015-2016 season, completely scrap the current roster for CapSpace when PG24 returns....but I don't see Bird considering that at all.


    Let me try and be more clear....


    Most of our bench except Solo and Rudez are free agents next Summer correct?

    Hill, West, Hibbert would be entering the final year of their contracts correct? As would Ian?


    So lets say, we keep Roy. In this scenario. We still gain a good chunk of space with our bench off the books. Rudez isn't on a huge deal. Miles either. Solo is on a rookie deal. PG is the only max player we'd have. If Roy opts in, then he's only on our books for 1 more season.

    So lets say we can move West at the deadline to just shed salary. I really think a team that overachieves 1st half of the season would look to nab someone like him to get that 8th seed. In the West or the East. So lets say we get a promising young player for him or an expiring. And lets say we can trade Hill and his final year to the Spurs next Summer. And move Ian and his final year either in the West trade-deadline-trade, or next Summer. That'd leave our roster at....


    Paul
    Roy
    Rudez
    Solo
    Miles



    Financially, we should be able to afford to add Goran and maybe the Morris twins. When you look at the bench salary gone, and Hill and West both gone. And Roy having 1 year left. At that point, it's a matter of filling out the rest of the roster. If Miles players great this season, our starting lineup would be set.


    Markieff
    Paul
    Roy
    Miles
    Goran


    Bench....

    Marcus
    Rudez
    ????
    ????
    ????


    We'd just need to fill out a few more roster spots with maybe cheap contracts like the one we gave Stuckey this year.
    Last edited by Grimp; 08-06-2014 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Like normal, you assume A LOT of things. Your trade scenarios always turn out to as flawless as the Joker's plan in the the Dark Knight.....a million different things need to occur in order for your end goal to be achieved. The problem is that if any single part of the plan fails....the entire plan fails.

    To be fair, I think that it is possible to dump West and GH for expirings....I just don't see Bird doing it because it means dumping this whole next season to achieve that.

    When was the last time that Bird making moves that essentially translates into making the Team worse than it already is just to make a run at a Free Agent that may or may not choose to come to Indy?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Why does everyone think that the only way for a player to develop is to play starter minutes? It's like there's no such thing as earning a spot or practicing or even that it's better to play minutes against talent close to your same level. It's like the only way to get better is to get your clock cleaned against the top starters in the game over and over and over and over again.

    Why suddenly is it impossible to develop into a good player by working in practice, playing more minutes against better players as you get better, and finally earning major minutes or a starter spot? It's as if not throwing a player into games no matter how well he does in practice is stunting his growth.
    It is ideal to gradually grow a player and work him into the starting lineup, however, we don't have that luxury this season.

    Lance went from playing 42 games in 2011-12 and averaged 10.5 mpg to playing 78 games in 2012-13 and averaged 29.2 mpg as we made it to the ECF.

    Solo played 28 games last year and averaged 8.1 mpg. There is no reason why he couldn't be able to start and play 25+ mpg for us this season and we make the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    Solo played 28 games last year and averaged 8.1 mpg. There is no reason why he couldn't be able to start and play 25+ mpg for us this season and we make the playoffs.
    The problem is his stamina. He will hit a "wall" about mid-season and struggle for awhile or the rest of the season. He needs 1 more year of extended minutes not starter minutes. It happens to everyone.
    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sav View Post
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    It is ideal to gradually grow a player and work him into the starting lineup, however, we don't have that luxury this season.

    Lance went from playing 42 games in 2011-12 and averaged 10.5 mpg to playing 78 games in 2012-13 and averaged 29.2 mpg as we made it to the ECF.

    Solo played 28 games last year and averaged 8.1 mpg. There is no reason why he couldn't be able to start and play 25+ mpg for us this season and we make the playoffs.
    Not every player is Lance. He was being groomed for the spot and had three solid previous-year starters to lean on - West, PG, and Roy.

    There's also a big difference between coming off the bench for solid minutes and moving to start vs. coming off the bench for garbage time and moving to start.

    We're talking essentially bringing Solo in from less experience than Lance had, all because getting a veteran starter ahead of him would stunt his growth.

    I'd say bring in a solid starter at the position if possible, let Solo get all the bench minutes (and win the starting spot if he can), and if he is at the point where he can start next year alongside PG then we're in business. If he can't manage to work his way up via major bench minutes it is silly to say that it's because he wasn't given a chance to start.
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Cleveland is quickly becoming Miami 2.0. Ugh.

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  23. #6992

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Even if Marion starts I doubt he logs much over 28 min/g, so there is ample minutes for Solo. He played 31 min/g last year but played 28-30 min/g in the previous 3 seasons, and he isn't getting younger.
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'd say bring in a solid starter at the position if possible, let Solo get all the bench minutes (and win the starting spot if he can), and if he is at the point where he can start next year alongside PG then we're in business. If he can't manage to work his way up via major bench minutes it is silly to say that it's because he wasn't given a chance to start.
    I agree but I am not too optimistic about us bringing in Marion, or anyone that would be a decent starter. We may be forced into starting Solo, which could work out okay.

  26. #6994

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Like normal, you assume A LOT of things. Your trade scenarios always turn out to as flawless as the Joker's plan in the the Dark Knight.....a million different things need to occur in order for your end goal to be achieved. The problem is that if any single part of the plan fails....the entire plan fails.

    To be fair, I think that it is possible to dump West and GH for expirings....I just don't see Bird doing it because it means dumping this whole next season to achieve that.

    When was the last time that Bird making moves that essentially translates into making the Team worse than it already is just to make a run at a Free Agent that may or may not choose to come to Indy?


    If he makes those deals at the deadline or next Summer, it really is a moot point. The off-season is for changes anyways. And next years Free Agent class isn't just any Free Agent class. Two top notch point guards will be available. This teams BIGGEST weakness. That changes the game a lot.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    http://www.nba.com/kings/news/blog/k...trade-new-york

    Kings Acquire Jeremy Tyler, Wayne Ellington and 2016 Second-Round Draft Considerations in Trade with New York

    Sacramento sends Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw to the Knicks
    Posted: Aug 06, 2014

    SACRAMENTO, CA ---- The Sacramento Kings today acquired forward-center Jeremy Tyler, guard Wayne Ellington and the unencumbered rights to the Knicks’ 2016 second-round draft selection from New York in exchange for forwards Quincy Acy and Travis Outlaw, it was announced by Kings General Manager Pete D’Alessandro.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  28. #6996

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Travis Outlaw USED to be a name. What happened?

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Cleveland is quickly becoming Miami 2.0. Ugh.
    The difference is Miami had players who could defend. Other than Lebron, Cleveland doesn't.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Ah, completely irrelevant player movement. Unless Travis morphs into Bo, we still have too many wings. Not sure I care for giving up the pick but this is pretty much a nothing deal.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Ah, completely irrelevant player movement. Unless Travis morphs into Bo, we still have too many wings. Not sure I care for giving up the pick but this is pretty much a nothing deal.
    Well, unless the Knicks completely stunk, you were giving up the pick anyway. It was top 37 protected, now it's completely unprotected.
    UncleBuck:

    "See how stupid those fans sound complaining about the officials. That is one reason why I hate when Pacers fans complain about the refs - does not come across well at all, no matter the merit. "

  32. #7000
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    Ah, completely irrelevant player movement. Unless Travis morphs into Bo, we still have too many wings. Not sure I care for giving up the pick but this is pretty much a nothing deal.
    I don't care enough to look it up, but is there contract ramifications or something like that? Because otherwise its' basically a crap for crap deal.

    That's also twice in like a month Ellington's been traded. Hope he didn't pick up a mortgage in NYC.

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