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Thread: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

  1. #3901
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I think if we lose Lance, as long as we can deal Hibbert, Hill, and West we will still be MAJOR contenders. When you look at our options, we have two who can replace West in the starting lineup. Copeland and LaVoy Allen. LaVoy has the shot range, but is younger and hasn't hit the ceiling on his game yet. He'd have to add some more post moves but the potential is there.

    Copeland has proven last season he can start as a stretch 4. He isn't afraid to take and make big shots either. He will probably have to drop some muscle so he can regain his Knicks days quickness though. But dealing West, Roy, and Hill and getting back multiple pieces would be the way to go. Targets would include.......



    Dragic
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    Jeremy Lamb
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    Wilson Chandler
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    Kenneth Faried
    Brandon Knight
    OJ Mayo
    Troy Daniels
    Nick Young
    Jameer Nelson
    Rondo
    Isaiah Thomas
    Jeff Green
    Joe Johnson
    Deron Wiliams
    Josh Smith
    Greg Monroe






    It can be done. For example, if we could deal West to Phoenix for Dragic. Or Hibbert to OKC for Lamb, Jackson, and Perkins expiring. Then move Hill and Solo to Sac for Jason Thompson. We'd be fine.
    Can we have a big time Keyshawn.....

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Okay let's put this to the test then.

    If Lance signs somewhere else and we can sign no other significant free agents and we go into the season without a trade and the team as it is now is the team that plays for the season, where do you think they fall into the grand scheme of things? You don't have to pick a particular spot just go with top tier of the east (1-3) middle of the pack (4-8) or bottom tier (9 and beyond)?

    For the sake of argument let's just put all the players back in their original teams as well. LeBron to the Heat, Anthony to the Knicks, etc.
    I think finishing 6 or higher and going to the 2nd round is well within the reach of this team without Lance. Sure, things can completely go bad, but I don't think it's likely.

    I never predict beyond round 2 because too many things can happen with matchups or other variables. I'd say an ECF doesn't SEEM like it would be probable, but it depends on who steps up (including the coach).

    In other words, I can to a certain level understand that we drop out of the "obvious contender" category. But to say that the BEST we can hope for is to make the 8th or maybe 7th seed is more than a bit ludicrous.
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  4. #3903

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    I think LeBron's team, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, and maybe Charlotte would be better than us. I think we would be down with teams like Brooklyn, New York, Cleveland if they don't get LeBron, and Detroit.

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  6. #3904
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    I think if we lose Lance, as long as we can deal Hibbert, Hill, and West we will still be MAJOR contenders. When you look at our options, we have two who can replace West in the starting lineup. Copeland and LaVoy Allen. LaVoy has the shot range, but is younger and hasn't hit the ceiling on his game yet. He'd have to add some more post moves but the potential is there.

    Copeland has proven last season he can start as a stretch 4. He isn't afraid to take and make big shots either. He will probably have to drop some muscle so he can regain his Knicks days quickness though. But dealing West, Roy, and Hill and getting back multiple pieces would be the way to go. Targets would include.......



    Dragic
    Reggie Jackson
    Jeremy Lamb
    Jason Thompson
    Wilson Chandler
    Nate Robinson
    Kenneth Faried
    Brandon Knight
    OJ Mayo
    Troy Daniels
    Nick Young
    Jameer Nelson
    Rondo
    Isaiah Thomas
    Jeff Green
    Joe Johnson
    Deron Wiliams
    Josh Smith
    Greg Monroe






    It can be done. For example, if we could deal West to Phoenix for Dragic. Or Hibbert to OKC for Lamb, Jackson, and Perkins expiring. Then move Hill and Solo to Sac for Jason Thompson. We'd be fine.
    So, if we replace four of our starters with bench-level players/headcases, we can be major contenders?

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think finishing 6 or higher and going to the 2nd round is well within the reach of this team without Lance. Sure, things can completely go bad, but I don't think it's likely.

    I never predict beyond round 2 because too many things can happen with matchups or other variables. I'd say an ECF doesn't SEEM like it would be probable, but it depends on who steps up (including the coach).

    In other words, I can to a certain level understand that we drop out of the "obvious contender" category. But to say that the BEST we can hope for is to make the 8th or maybe 7th seed is more than a bit ludicrous.
    unless Paul George becomes Kevin Duran, Indian is at best the sixth best team. Cavs/Heat, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, Brooklyn are all better than us without Lance
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    So, if we replace four of our starters with bench-level players, we can be major contenders?
    I don't mind Grimp's thinking here. If we lose Lance, our window will be officially closed. Might as well blow the whole thing up, and re-build around Paul George. Without Lance, we don't get out of the first round next season
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    Edit: Bath Township is in Cleveland so they are talking about his home there... he's gonna be a Cav tonight imo


    So Lebron is making the announcement TODAY/TONIGHT? Thank you! Now this s*** can finally end!

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    I think LeBron's team, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, and maybe Charlotte would be better than us. I think we would be down with teams like Brooklyn, New York, Cleveland if they don't get LeBron, and Detroit.
    You realize we were good before Lance blew up right? I can argue we were better before it happened.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    If they sign Parsons first, then they can't give the max to Bosh. If they sign Bosh to the max first, then they can sign Parsons.

    So Dallas puts the Heat on Houston to put the heat on Bosh to (maybe) put the heat on LeBron.
    Maybe I'm just stupid, I just don't get it. How is Parsons' contract going to change based on whether they sign Bosh before or after?

    To me it works out 2 ways, both with the same result if they chose to keep Parsons and sign Bosh.

    A. Sign Bosh to Max, match Dallas' offer to Parsons.
    B. Match Dallas' offer to Parsons, Sign Bosh to max.

    What am I missing?
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I don't mind Grimp's thinking here. If we lose Lance, our window will be officially closed. Might as well blow the whole thing up, and re-build around Paul George. Without Lance, we don't get out of the first round next season
    ECF finals 2012-2013: took heat to 7 games, Lance's stats: 8.8 ppg 3.9 rpg 2.9 apg... Miles can easily give us that and more.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    unless Paul George becomes Kevin Duran, Indian is at best the sixth best team. Cavs/Heat, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, Brooklyn are all better than us without Lance
    Just not getting this at all. Half those teams were threats to us because of adjusting to our defensive style, not because they play some perfect brand of basketball while filled out with superstars. Unless you think Vogel is completely incapable of learning from that with a full summer and training camp to work on it, then you still have to figure that even without Lance they have to prove they can actually beat us.
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    because once the Rockets match Parsons's offer their cap space disappears.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    ECF finals 2012-2013: took heat to 7 games, Lance's stats: 8.8 ppg 3.9 rpg 2.9 apg... Miles can easily give us that and more.
    slow down. Lance was probably the best 5th wheel in the conference that season. Miles can replace the scoring easily, but he's not the utility guy Lance is.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I don't mind Grimp's thinking here. If we lose Lance, our window will be officially closed. Might as well blow the whole thing up, and re-build around Paul George. Without Lance, we don't get out of the first round next season
    You think rebuilding will take a year? Two? Who are you planning on rebuilding with that keeps PG from pulling up stakes and heading into the sunset before it is done?

    "Well, Mrs. Brown, we had a little problem with your roof, so we dynamited the house and started over."
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    ECF finals 2012-2013: took heat to 7 games, Lance's stats: 8.8 ppg 3.9 rpg 2.9 apg... Miles can easily give us that and more.
    2013 game 6 vs NY, Lance led us to a series clinching victory. Without his performance in that game, we don't get past the Knicks. Do you really think CJ Miles can carry us to a series clinching win?
    David "And One" West

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  26. #3916
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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    2013 game 6 vs NY, Lance led us to a series clinching victory. Without his performance in that game, we don't get past the Knicks. Do you really think CJ Miles can carry us to a series clinching win?
    I seem to recall George Hill actually leading us to a victory in 2013 playoffs, yet he supposedly sucks.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    You realize we were good before Lance blew up right? I can argue we were better before it happened.
    Just like you can also argue that multiple teams are quite likely to become quite some better this summer, while we got worse .......
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  30. #3918

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    So, if we replace four of our starters with bench-level players/headcases, we can be major contenders?
    I am trying to come up with equations but lets be honest here, if we lose a young talent you start over and fix holes. And rebuild around the young talent you have. All the marquee players are gone. And the ones we never had a shot at (LBJ, Melo) are really gone. So we have to get younger. I think Jason Thompson is an upgrade over Roy when you consider we are trying to find someone who's more athletic.

    Thompson is a good player and only 27. He's been stuck in Sac-hell for years. Guy goes into every season off the bench, knowing there is no playoffs in their future. Thompson is a decent shot blocker, but what he gives us is athleticism. He can catch lobs, has nice post moves, quick feet, and can run the floor. There aren't any terrific centers that are gonna be on the market these days anyways. Gortat is locked up, Gasol is aging, M. Gasol is locked up, Chandler is old as dirt, Taj and Noah aren't going any place.

    Horford isn't going anywhere, Drummond is gonna be a Piston cornerstone. Monroe probably as well. Robin Lopez could be traded for Roy. But I don't know if Portland is interested in shaking up that position right now unless they see Roy as a clear upgrade. He would give them a more intimidating presence and better shot blocking. But they just added Kaman as a backup. So they seem set. Teams without a solid big are Phoenix, OKC, and Denver. All three teams have pieces we need.

    Why not see what you can get? If you can come out of this with Dragic and Reggie Jackson or Jackson and Lamb, or Dragic and Lamb why not? Lamb is a young player who could be our SG of the future. OKC will want to deal Jackson for fear of another Harden scenario. Where they will be priced out of the market. Roy allows them to fill a need. With a front line of Roy and Ibaka, they can do battle with the likes of Memphis and the Clippers without having to worry about being out-muscled.

    I think West would fit in Phoenix. He'd add toughness and low post scoring to a strictly perimeter team. They have to move Dragic for this reason. They have Bledsoe already. Extending him will cost them money. And then there's TJ Warren. If he's the "future future"........how will they ever know if his minutes are being gobbled up by Dragic and Bledsoe? And then there's Ish Smith, another point guard on their roster who hardly ever plays. Suns are starting to look like Kahn's old T'Wolves now with all of these point guards. Something's gotta give.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    2013 game 6 vs NY, Lance led us to a series clinching victory. Without his performance in that game, we don't get past the Knicks. Do you really think CJ Miles can carry us to a series clinching win?
    When he gets hot outside? Oh yes easily. He scored 35 points on 10 made threes this past season, when he gets hot he is tough to stop.

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  33. #3920

    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    You realize we were good before Lance blew up right? I can argue we were better before it happened.
    Yes. You realize that Danny Granger was still playing for the Pacers and good before Lance blew up, right?

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    You realize we were good before Lance blew up right? I can argue we were better before it happened.
    We were good in 2011-2012 because we had Danny Granger. We sucked the next year until Lance became a starter. Two years of Lance starting at SG got us to two ECF's. You cannot replace Lance with random guys like CJ Miles and expect the same. I will support Miles, but he was brought here to come off the bench
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Thompson is an awful defender. That's why the Kings keep giving up on him. Nice offensive repertoire but he isn't the solution to anyone's problems as a starter.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Yes. You realize that Danny Granger was still playing for the Pacers and good before Lance blew up, right?
    Not in 12-13 he wasn't.

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I seem to recall George Hill actually leading us to a victory in 2013 playoffs, yet he supposedly sucks.
    George Hill doesn't suck at all, but he is a "dime-a-dozen" NBA player. Relying on George Hill to become a borderline all-star if Lance leaves is a terrible plan
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Offseason News, Trades, Rumors, Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    I think LeBron's team, Chicago, Washington, Atlanta, Toronto, and maybe Charlotte would be better than us. I think we would be down with teams like Brooklyn, New York, Cleveland if they don't get LeBron, and Detroit.
    I would agree with one exception. That exception being a good sign and trade.

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