Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

  1. #1

    Default Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Although I have been a member of this forum for a long time, this is my first post, so please bear with me. I have been a fan of the Indiana Pacers since their beginning in the ABA. I have never seen any team, professional or amateur, experience the turmoil that this year's team has gone through. If the Pacers brass decided to write off this season and wait till next year, I could hardly blame them. However, I feel that with the Eastern Conference being what it is, we are still only an 8-10 game winning streak from being back into contention. For example, Houston has gone from 16-17 to 34-21 by winning 16 of the last 20, including the last 8 in a row. The Pacers are capable of doing something similar to that, and could be right back in the race for home court advantage in the playoffs. Or we could continue the way we have been going and not even make the playoffs.

    I have been feeling for several weeks that the Pacers need to make some kind of change to turn things around this season. If nothing else, it would tell the players that management is not writing off the season. I first thought about the possibility of trading Artest. The only teams that would remotely be interested in Ron would be teams that have no hope of playoff contention this year. The only teams that I feel would interest the Pacers in this scenerio would be the Clippers, New Orleans, Golden State, Utah, and maybe Portland. However, Ron is so important to this team's future, I don't think they are looking to trade Ron.

    If you look at the Pacers roster and salaries, we really are a hard team to trade with. We don't have any expiring contracts that other teams would look for. Two of our highest paid players, Austin and JB, have not been consistent contributers. Most of our young talent have very low salaries. This makes it difficult to make a deal and have salaries match. Some of the players in the league that are rumored to be available for trades, Baron Davis, Dale Davis, Dunleavy, Abdur-Rahim, Sprewell, Cassell, Bonzi Wells, etc., don't match up with what the Pacers would be able to give in return.

    One team seems to make sense to me, and that is Toronto. They are offering Donyell Marshall to all takers but are insisting that Jalen Rose and his horrible contract be included. Eric Williams has said that he wants out as well. It doesn't seem too many teams want to take on Jalen's contract, however. I am wondering if they may take Austin contract in order to get rid of Jalen's.
    Tell me what you think of this:

    Indiana trades: PF Austin Croshere (9.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.8 minutes)
    SF Jonathan Bender (5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes)
    C Scot Pollard (4.8 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.6 minutes)
    PG Anthony Johnson (5.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 23.6 minutes)
    Indiana receives: SG Jalen Rose (16.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.2 apg in 30.2 minutes)
    PF Donyell Marshall (10.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes)
    SF Eric Williams (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.6 minutes)
    PG Milt Palacio (5.4 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 19.3 minutes)
    Change in team outlook: +15.8 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and +2.8 apg.

    Toronto trades: SG Jalen Rose (16.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.2 apg in 30.2 minutes)
    PF Donyell Marshall (10.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes)
    SF Eric Williams (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.6 minutes)
    PG Milt Palacio (5.4 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 19.3 minutes)
    Toronto receives: PF Austin Croshere (9.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.8 minutes)
    SF Jonathan Bender (5.1 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 13.3 minutes)
    C Scot Pollard (4.8 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.6 minutes)
    PG Anthony Johnson (5.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 23.6 minutes)
    Change in team outlook: -15.8 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and -2.8 apg.

    TRADE ACCEPTED

    Why for Toronto?
    They get rid of Jalen's contract, they get JB's potential, a backup PF to replace Marshall, and AJ to backup Rafer Alston. They save $14 million by losing Jalen's and adding Austin's salary over two years.

    Why for Indiana?
    We don't give up any starters (at least when everyone is healthy). Marshall is a good rebounder and inside player who can hit the three regularly. Williams is a good backup at the SF position. Jalen could help at SG or SF. This might even help convince Reggie to give up the starting spot. Our line up would look something like this:

    PG - Tinsley, Palacio, Gill
    SG - Rose, Miller, Freddy
    SF - SJax, Williams, JJ
    PF - O'neal, Marshall,
    C - Foster, Harrison, Edwards

    This makes us very versatile. We could play big (Harrison, O'neal, Marshall, Rose, SJax) or go small (Foster, O'neal, SJax, Freddy, Tinsley) and a lot of combinations in between. Jalen becomes very tradable after next season when he will be in the final year of his contract.

    Most importantly, this tells the team that management still believes this season is important. In my opinion, it gives Reggie a chance for a title in his final season.

    There are several other options to this, with Jalen, Marshall, and Williams being the main pieces for Toronto and Austin, JB, and Pollard being the main pieces for Indiana.

    What do you think?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Welcome and good first effort - but I think Toronto gets hosed and would not do it.

    I don't believe Toronto will trade Jalen Rose without good reason. Austin Croshere is not a good reason, especially since Toronto is pretty well stocked at forward.

    Toronto needs an impact player, or good draft picks, and expiring contracts.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,616

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    & the Raptors traded Vince Carter for what exactly?

    Nice post AllSmiles, keep 'em comin'

  4. #4
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,233

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    In hindsight, should we have made a deal for Vince?

  5. #5
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,610

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    This is one hell of a first post. Good job.

    I, for one, like a more proactive approach to problem solving. Thus why I have never been a big fan of Donnie Walsh's. To me it just gets old saying "let's see what the team grows into" year after year after year.

    The trade you mention makes some sense for the very reasons you mention. However there is one small detail that cannot be overlooked & that is that Jalen Rose is a cancer prema dona.

    It was widely reported at the time of the trade that J.O. & Jalen were not getting along at all (hmmm.. now that I think about it J.O. does seem to have issues with other players who don't want to just throw into the post, something for future ponderings.) & basically management decided to hook the wagon to him for the future.

    I like D. Marshall, but I fear that he is just not a big enough banger to help us along the way. He is a good rebounder for his size but a frontline of him & J.O. might even be softer than Foster & J.O.

    I like Milt Pilacio & I like Eric Williams.

    I'm not sure but I also think that Walsh has ruined any hopes of getting rid of Bender that we had. Before I think you might have gotten some G.M.'s to bite because of his POTENTIAL but now I think you would get crap in return for him because of his injury problems.

    To get rid of Jalen Rose I bet they would go for Austin. But they are gonna want draft picks with him. Right now we are a lottery team & I wouldn't dream of giving them the pick.

    If we could adjust your trade to take out Jalen Rose I would be more than willing to do it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  6. #6
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,233

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    As for the trade, I'd do it.

  7. #7
    foulplay
    Guest

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Not going to happen. This overloads us at the forward position, especially next year when Ronnie comes back. We would have, Ron, Jax, JO, Rose, Marshall, Williams, and Foster. Besides, I DO NOT want me me Jalon me me Rose me me back on this team. He will create more problems than solutions.

  8. #8
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,233

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Quote Originally Posted by foulplay
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not going to happen. This overloads us at the forward position, especially next year when Ronnie comes back. We would have, Ron, Jax, JO, Rose, Marshall, Williams, and Foster. Besides, I DO NOT want me me Jalon me me Rose me me back on this team. He will create more problems than solutions.
    Jalen enters into the last year of his contract next year, so he fills in for Ron this year, then becomes trade bait next year.

    Very good trade for us. Doubt Toronto would bite, though.

    C - Foster/Harrison/Edwards
    PF - JO/Marshall
    SF - Rose/Williams/JJ/Bender/Curry
    SG - Reggie/SJax/Freddie
    PG - Tinsley/Palacio/Gill


  9. #9
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,233

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    For the record, I'd do this trade even if Toronto got to keep Williams.

  10. #10
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    While I haven't offically given up I have drafted a written note.

    "Dear Pacers,

    I am writing to inform you that in lue of ordering playoff tickets I am instead offically writing off the rest of the season.

    Thanks for the memories,
    me

    P.S. Also consider this offical notification that I WILL NOT be reordering my season tickets next year."

  11. #11
    recap
    Guest

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    To me it sounds like a great trade. While they probably wouldn't start together, I would like to see a line-up of Tinsley, Jackson, Marshall, ONeal, Foster. I definitely think that Marshall could play a significant amount of sf, which means that Foster's lack of size would be less of an issue.

    As far as Jalen, I don't like him, but we wouldn't have to play him much. I am a huge fan of bringing Marshall here. In fact, outside of the starters there isn't anyone that I wouldn't trade to get him.

  12. #12
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    I guess I'm the lone remaining Jalen Rose fan.

    I guess that's the benefit of moving to Chicago during the summer after the 2000 NBA Finals. While you guys all soured on Jalen during the Isiah Thomas era, I soured on Ron Artest during the Tim Floyd and Bill Cartwright eras.

    I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, and I'd be willing to sweeten it up a bit and add Foster instead of Pollard or Fred instead of AJ.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. #13
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,610

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    While I haven't offically given up I have drafted a written note.

    "Dear Pacers,

    I am writing to inform you that in lue of ordering playoff tickets I am instead offically writing off the rest of the season.

    Thanks for the memories,
    me

    P.S. Also consider this offical notification that I WILL NOT be reordering my season tickets next year."

    Wow.

    Are you serious about this?

    I'm not criticizing in any way here but I'm just curious, what made you not order tickets for next season? Is it the willingness of management to write off this season or is it Artest or something else?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  14. #14
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,628

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    This is the trade that I'd like to see done:

    Indiana trades:
    PF Austin Croshere (9.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 1.6 apg in 26.8 minutes)
    PG Anthony Johnson (5.5 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 3.2 apg in 23.6 minutes)

    Indiana receives:
    PF Donyell Marshall (10.4 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.1 minutes)
    SF Eric Williams (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.6 minutes)
    PG Milt Palacio (5.4 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 19.3 minutes)

    Change in team outlook: +9.1 ppg, +3.6 rpg, and +1.7 apg.


    TRADE ACCEPTED

    The Pacers could throw in a future first round pick or Toronto might be satisfied with getting a Trade exemption from the deal as it stands.

    This of course would be an excellent trade from the Pacers standpoint. Not sure if Toronto would be willing to do this deal. Although AJ is a better defender and has more size than Pilacio, he is only a slight improvement overall.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    I still, after all this time, a little bit in shock over Jalen. No matter what you think of him now, without him we wouldn't have gotten to the finals. It seemed like a fait accompli that he would be the next Pacers star as Reggie faded. Anyone that thinks that Walsh isn't "pro-active" has got to try to explain that trade. I mean, that was a HUGE gamble. Almost everyone thought at the time that we were losing the best player in the deal, which was what you don't do. It wasn't like Jalen was old or injury prone. And it wasn't like ANYONE had ANY idea what Brad and Ron would become. And clearly, that move, along with the maturation of ONeal has (had) made the difference.

    Of course, now we don't have Jalen, Brad or Ron.

  16. #16
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Coliseum
    Posts
    6,248

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Sorry, but I would rather write off the season than have Rose back. But . . . I dont think the season should be written off. To make the playoffs with the kind of season we've had would be a good thing. Then, we have nothing to lose and if somehow we advanced it would just be gravy.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  17. #17
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Wow.

    Are you serious about this?

    I'm not criticizing in any way here but I'm just curious, what made you not order tickets for next season? Is it the willingness of management to write off this season or is it Artest or something else?
    Before we reordered this year we really debated about what we should do. We were going to cut back to just half a year but the seats weren't up to Kegboy's standards.

    A couple weeks ago when we were at a game (and losing) I said something like I didn't think it was worth getting playoff tickets. I almost fell you of my seat when Kegboy agreed.

    While its not 100% official that we're not getting seats next year I don't see myself changing my mind. I don't blame Pacer management (although I make no bones about my near hatred of Larry Bird) and I certainly don't blame Ron. I'm sick of referees who are consistantly inconsistant and more or less insane. I'm tired of how the NBA handles things.

    I guess I'm just sick and tired.

  18. #18
    Gold Stagger Hoop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Greenwood
    Posts
    4,523
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Do we write off this season or do we make a change?

    I've already wrote off this season and I don't want ANY trades.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •