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Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

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  • #31
    Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

    We added scoring to the bench this off season, but we don't typically use them to their strengths, in a game like last night where more opportunities show up for them to show their skills they did. As far as Copeland I think his D and lack of ability to put the ball on the ground even against bigger defenders in my eyes hurts him. If we are able to use him as a specialist then we should do it, I do it all the time in 2K14...
    Why so SERIOUS

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

      Originally posted by timid View Post
      So that means 57% of his shots are 2's...Kyle Korver strikes me as someone who only shoots 3's...Whats his percentage of shots that are 3's? Id be interested to see those...
      Korver has attempted 594 shots this season. 385 of them were 3s. That means that 64.8% of his shots are 3s -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2014/

      Cope has attempted 479 shots in his career (in the RS). 206 of those shots were 3s. That means that 43% of his shots are 3s -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/...copelch01.html

      That's quite comparable to Stephen Curry, by the way. Curry has attempted 1294 shots this season and 574 of them were 3s. That means that 44.3% of his shots are 3s -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2014/

      Curry is an absolutely phenomenal shooter but he can do a lot more things than shoot the 3. Similarly, Copeland is a very good shooter that can do more things than shoot 3. I said that when we signed Copeland and I'll say it again. He is a good offensive player. He can shoot from distance, he has a couple of ways to score inside the arc and he can also make the correct read and the nice pass to get someone else open. He isn't a star, obviously, but he will absolutely help your offense when he's in the game because he is a legitimate threat.

      That said, the Pacers use him heavily as a 3 point shooter. He has attempted 99 shots this season and 66 of them were 3s (meaning that 66.6% of his shots were 3s). That's close to Korver territory but it still doesn't make him an one-trick pony.

      An one-trick pony would be someone like Steve Novak who has attempted 141 shots and 119 of them were 3s (meaning that 84.4% of his shots were 3s).

      In any case, we can certainly use Copeland. Scola can give us a similar dimension if he's hitting his 18 footer but he has to hit it consistently. Vogel has to find a way to take the most out of both of them. Both Scola and Copeland are good offensive players that could help our ailing offense a lot if we used them correctly.
      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

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      • #33
        Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

        Originally posted by PR07 View Post
        I think the Pacers' coaches see Copeland solely as a 4, which really limits his minutes opportunities between West and Scola, fair or unfair. It would be nice to see if Frank would give him some burn at the backup 3 if certain matchups allowed for it...tweeners (i.e. Rashard Lewis's, Marvin Williams, A. Jamison's) of the world.
        They said that they saw him as a 4 at the beginning of the season and I agreed with that view as well. His athleticism is not good for the wing and quicker 3s could take advantage of him.

        On the other hand, Vogel did use him as a 3 sparingly throughout the season and I thought that he performed well in that capacity (Snell wasn't able to exploit his lack of athleticism, for example).
        Originally posted by IrishPacer
        Empty vessels make the most noise.

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        • #34
          Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

          Originally posted by timid View Post
          Ok, I can agree that defensively he's a four if he playing against someone close to his size..But if he's guarding a true 4 like Boozer or something...He' wont be able to guard them...
          He's not going to guard a Paul George-style SF, either.
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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          • #35
            Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

            Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
            Nobody's asking him to be a starter, or even the 6th man. He just adds a dimension to the team that nobody else really does and that's as an outside shooter. Yeah if we threw out the same lineup the Bucks would eventually get us figured out, but if you threw out a lineup with 3-4 of our starters with Copeland spreading the floor, then it's different.

            Every team needs a guy that can knock down open shots. That's the one thing we miss on this team is a knockdown shooter.
            Bingo this is what I am trying to say. No I don't expect him to be a savior, but he is a cog that EVERY SINGLE championship team has had and used and we keep leaving him on the bench. I do not expect him to get 20 minutes a game. I DO want to see him used like the 2000 Pacers used Big Smooth.

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            • #36
              Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

              Originally posted by Really? View Post
              As far as Copeland I think his D and lack of ability to put the ball on the ground even against bigger defenders in my eyes hurts him. If we are able to use him as a specialist then we should do it, I do it all the time in 2K14...
              I really don't think that Copeland lacks the ability to put the ball on the floor. He has scored 21 2 point FGs and only 5 of them were assisted. That means that everything else was created by him off the dribble. For example, he did it 4 times yesterday (including the game winner). I'll post the videos for you:

              Drive #1: http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID...ameEventID=153

              He receives the ball after a nice LaVoy Allen pass, he pump fakes on Adrien, spins on him to create an open lane (which succeeds), drives to the rim and attempts a running hook that Adrien goaltends.

              LaVoy Allen deserves kudos for the nice pass, by the way. The whole sequence was a pretty good basketball play.

              Drive #2: http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID...ameEventID=388

              He screens for Turner and then posts up on Henson. He makes a quick move and drives to the centre of the floor, keeping Henson at bay with his left shoulder (something that David West loves to do), and puts up a hook shot over the taller Henson.

              Drive #3: http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID...ameEventID=382

              He receives a nice pass by Turner and sees Henson quickly closing in on him. He pump fakes and Henson correctly shades him to the rim for two reasons. The first reason is that this forces Copeland to drive with his off-hand and the second reason is that Pachulia is waiting there to contest the drive. In other words, the Bucks funneled him to Zaza like we love to do with Roy. Copeland uses his right shoulder to keep Henson behind him and continues to drive. LaVoy Allen makes the correct move and positions himself in the back pocket (the place that T-Bird mentioned so many times in his articles and also the place that Chris Andersen positioned himself throughout the Miami series) and Cope sees it. Pachulia commits on Copeland's drive, LaVoy Allen becomes open and Copeland passes it to him. Allen makes a nice catch, rolls into Pachulia and hits the short hook shot.

              Drive #4: http://stats.nba.com/cvp.html?GameID...ameEventID=536

              And that's the game winner. Giannis Antetokounmpo cuts off the pass to Turner with his long limbs and Butler is forced to pass to Copeland. Copeland has Sessions on him (that's because we attempted a staggered screen with Sloan and Copeland in order to free up Turner but the Bucks switched everything). Copeland takes advantage of the fact that he has a guard on him and drives once again using his left shoulder to keep his defender at bay. Sessions never manages to close in and attempt to strip the ball (granted, his absolutely didn't want to foul at this time so he didn't really try to swipe the ball), Copeland lays it up, Adrien and Wright are unable to reach the ball and it goes in. Pacers win.

              I think that Copeland does a good enough job at putting the ball on the floor when the situation calls for it. He isn't amazing at it but he knows how to do it. I also think that he knows what to do with the ball when he drives which is a pretty big aspect of it as well.

              I'd also say that his D isn't bad either. It was terrible in the pre-season but it's ok now. No one will confuse him for a defensive stopper but he isn't a liability either. He is mediocre at it.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                Thats the issue though. This coaching staff let this team play .500 ball for other 2 months with no real changes. I'm not sure this coach staff knows what you say they know. Cope can play when given the chance. No he isn't consistent, but neither is a guy like Scola. Frank has a tendency to pair Copeland with Scola at the Center spot. Thats not a successful line up. Frank should be using Copeland as a back up to Scola for game when Scola comes out looking terrible. Scola is 34 years old, he just isn't as consistent as years past.
                i find myself agreeing with this. i have seen this year when there were times a guy like west was completely exhausted. huffing and puffing and almost crawling up the floor and frank seemed oblivious to it. he kept him in there when west desperately need to sit west and we had a guy like cope just sitting.
                i am not saying cope is going to average 18 a game but heck, i think he's earned more opportunity than he's been given.
                coaches can be stubborn. some will even choose to lose by playing their system no matter what than make adjustments that don't jive with their philosophy.
                the previous coach was one of those types.
                not saying frank is but, it is worth considering.

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                • #38
                  Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                  Doesn't both Scola and Copeland serve a similar purpose when it comes to how both are used on the offensive end....basically creating spacing on the floor and providing a scoring threat outside ( and inside ) the paint?

                  Scola has his midrange jumpshot that is deadly ( when he hits it )......whereas Copeland does the same thing...he just does it a few feet further back at the 3pt line. Granted...there's a minor difference between a MidRange Jumpshot and a 3pt shot....but in the end.....whether it be Copeland taking a 3pt shot or Scola taking a midrange pick and pop.....the both serve the same purpose....they create spacing and pulls the defenders away from the paint.

                  I assume that there would have to be some minor adjustments in the offense.....but you have to wonder why Vogel chooses to stick with Scola at the Backup PF spot as opposed to having a Stretch 4 like Copeland ( who I think is quick and strong enough to guard and score against similar types of Stretch 4s ) on the floor ( especially when Scola is struggling with his shot ).
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                    Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                    . . . In any case, we can certainly use Copeland. Scola can give us a similar dimension if he's hitting his 18 footer but he has to hit it consistently. Vogel has to find a way to take the most out of both of them. Both Scola and Copeland are good offensive players that could help our ailing offense a lot if we used them correctly.
                    The trick of course is figuring out ahead of time which guy will be making shots for a given game. Which you know cannot be done. The coach has to pick the best guy and let him play. It just doesn't work yanking him in and out like they were a baseball righty/lefty platoon. Luis is a better player, so he has to play and Cope becomes a specialist. If Cope starts making all his shots, then he will become the better player and get the minutes. But right now, Luis is just a better player.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                      As far as spacing goes a 40 percent 3 point shooter is always more potent than a midranged guy unless the mod range guy is just lights out, which to be fair scola consistently was early on and still sometimes is. I do think Copes game off the bounce is underrated. He'll be a nice rotation player next year.
                      Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

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                      • #41
                        Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                        The way to move Copeland into the rotation is.............

                        Scola
                        Copeland
                        Ian
                        Turner
                        CJ



                        Just make a 10 man rotation. Play 5 bench guys in the playoffs. Copeland will see a smaller amount of the time since he's backing up PG but this is the only way to fit Copeland in since Scola at center is a terrible idea.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                          Doesn't both Scola and Copeland serve a similar purpose when it comes to how both are used on the offensive end....basically creating spacing on the floor and providing a scoring threat outside ( and inside ) the paint?

                          Scola has his midrange jumpshot that is deadly ( when he hits it )......whereas Copeland does the same thing...he just does it a few feet further back at the 3pt line. Granted...there's a minor difference between a MidRange Jumpshot and a 3pt shot....but in the end.....whether it be Copeland taking a 3pt shot or Scola taking a midrange pick and pop.....the both serve the same purpose....they create spacing and pulls the defenders away from the paint.
                          Yeah, they do serve a similar purpose. The main difference is that it's much easier to cheat off of a mid-range jumpshot than it is for a 3. You can easily collapse the paint and then scramble back to contest a mid-range jumper. You cannot do that as easily for a 3. That's why 3s are used for spacing a lot more often.

                          That said, mid-range jumpers do create spacing as well and that's why we need Scola to hit them.
                          Originally posted by IrishPacer
                          Empty vessels make the most noise.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                            I am in full support of playing Copeland

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                              If we actually make Copeland part of the rotation next year, I can easily see him averaging 11+ ppg off the bench

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Can we see Copeland as part of the regular rotation now please

                                Just as a general rule as we go into the playoffs. I want Scola to get more minutes than Copeland. I expect Scola to play better in the playoffs than he did in regular season. His experience and no how I think will make a big difference.

                                if you want to make a change for next season, fine, but not for these playoffs

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