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Thread: The official Carlisle thread.....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default The official Carlisle thread.....

    Of recent I've been reading a lot of people start to now have doubts about Rick & his system.

    I think this would be a good place to start talking about it in one spot instead of seeing it here & there during differant threads.

    I won't make a poll on this because I think the opinions are going to be to wide & varied for this & I'm sure some people will fall into the "I like him as a coach but I have some problems right now with what he is doing" mode. Which is probably where I'm at at the moment.

    But this thread is to just let it all hang out.

    If you think Rick is Da Bomb & he can do no wrong, say so.

    If you think Rick sucks & you would rather have Thomas back just say so.

    If you have some serious issues with who is starting & inconsistant min., just say so.

    BTW, let's just all save ourselves a little time here.

    I think both pro & con for Rick will aknowledge that this has been an unusal season & hard for anybody to coach. But let's not just jump down somebody's throat because you feel that Rick is doing the best he can with what he has. I think most aknowledge that. Some people obviously are haveing some problems with the way Rick is adjusting to the players he has available to him.

    So let it fly.

    I'll post my thoughts later.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2
    NotLosingButWinning
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    the reason i was such an rc fan last season was because of the stability he brought. night in and night out there was never any doubt which pacers team was going to show up. they would play hard-nosed defense and the offense wouldn't be pretty but it would get the job done. i credited this to rc's coaching style, taking one game at a time, never getting to high or too low.

    this season i never know which pacer team is going to show up. forget game to game how about quarter to quarter. the inconsistency from quarter to quarter is extremely frustrating. a lot of other things are contributing to the inconsisteny but rc's inability to be flexible and change things up isn't helping matters. particularly when he continues to pound the ball into j.o. eventhough he's not hitting his shots. that is the biggest problem that i have with rc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I think RC is doing a good job, obviously the change worked great last year, it brought new perspective and more confidence. Maybe the honeymoon is wearing off now, and it's just becoming tedious. A losing mentality is hard to overcome. That said..

    I think Ron being gone is 90% of every problem the boys are having, and I wouldn't have any other coach right now.

  4. #4
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Ric is the bomb. He is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

    Does that mean every decision he makes is the right decision. Of course not. Does that mean I agree with every decision he makes. Of course not.

    But I've followed the Pacers closely for over 25 years now and in that time they have had a lot of coaches, and Rick is without question is the second best coach during that time.

    I love his system, and if I were an NBA coach I would use his system, from his substitution pattern to demeanor, he is an excellent coach and I agree 100% with his philosophy

  5. #5
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Ric is the bomb. He is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

    Does that mean every decision he makes is the right decision. Of course not. Does that mean I agree with every decision he makes. Of course not.

    But I've followed the Pacers closely for over 25 years now and in that time they have had a lot of coaches, and Rick is without question is the second best coach during that time.

    I love his system, and if I were an NBA coach I would use his system, from his substitution pattern to demeanor, he is an excellent coach and I agree 100% with his philosophy

    I assume you mean Larry Brown is the best of our time, I agree.

    Who was the worst? In your opinion.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  6. #6

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Isiah? Dick?
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Ric is the bomb. He is one of the best coaches in the NBA.

    Does that mean every decision he makes is the right decision. Of course not. Does that mean I agree with every decision he makes. Of course not.

    But I've followed the Pacers closely for over 25 years now and in that time they have had a lot of coaches, and Rick is without question is the second best coach during that time.

    I love his system, and if I were an NBA coach I would use his system, from his substitution pattern to demeanor, he is an excellent coach and I agree 100% with his philosophy
    I agree 100%, and I also think Rick is trying to learn from his mistakes and to get better as a coach all the time. He isn't afraid to take the blame when necessary and he is always looking to get better. I really like the fact that he doesn't make excuses or whine, and he doesn't call out his players in the media. A real professional in every aspect. I honestly don't think anyone else could have done better with the crazy situations we have had this year.

  8. #8
    recap
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I assume you mean Larry Brown is the best of our time, I agree.

    Who was the worst? In your opinion.
    I think that Bird was the one that got the maximum possible out of his teams. I don't say that only because they went to the finals in his tenure. I really think that he got as much out of the personel (sp.?) that he had to work with as was possible. You could argue that Harter and Carlisle did the real coaching, but those 3 years were the best managed that I can remember (last year was nearly at that level, IMO).

    As for Carlisle, I think that he is a great coach for a contending team. I actually wonder if (blasphemy, I know) IT might be better at improvising given our current situation.

  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Who is the worst? that is a tough call, Versace and Irvine are neck and neck, with Isiah not too far behind. Those are the three worst since Slick left.

    McKinney wasn't bad, he had the worst situation. Jack Ramsey was good, but I think he lost the desire to coach at the end.

    Bob Hill was decent, very average, he is IMO a very standard NBA coach. Not bad, not real good.

    Larry Bird, I thought did an excellent job. But he had the best situation, all veteran players, winning team, and two excellent assistants. The bottom line is the Pacers were very well coached from 1998 through 2000.

    Back to versace for a minute. I thought his basketball knowledge was good, but he was horrible at relating to the players, the players hated him and had zero respect for him

  10. #10
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Especially Schremph. I remember one encounter on the bench that Det & the Hair were going face to face both beet red in color. Even though I didn't sit near the bench at that time I could hear the entire thing from across the way because there were so few people there.

    I'd vote George Irvin as the worst coach of all-time.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  11. #11
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Bo Hill gets a lot more crap than he deserves - he played that faster pace style because he realized that was the only way to get that particular team back to 0.500.

    He took SA to the WCFs using a blueprint that was also customized to that team, and that same SF known as The Rifleman was playing out of position at PF and was a decent rebounder.

    Bo was great at assessing his team's strengths and weaknesses and picking a gameplan to maximize thier performance. Many of you don't care for the style he picked for the Pacers, or that they couldn't exceed 0.500 with that roster, but Bo wasn't the guy to blame. That team was still growing/ coming together and made a lot of personnel moves to retrofit that team to Brownie's image.

    Having said that, what makes a great coach, IMO, is one that can figure out how to maximize his team's performance, and make the necessary adjustments.

    Rick's not showing enough flexibility, IMO.

    I'm all for stubbornly sticking to something that's working, but when it's not working, you've also got to show to your players that you're working just as hard to figure it out.

    Rick's basically sending the message to the team that, "You're a sub-0.500 team right now and I'd rather wait and get players that fit into "my" system than help you all figure out how to get back above 0.500."

    Name the one guy on the Pacers roster than Memphis has absolutely no answer for?

    I'll give you a hint, Rick gave him a DNP-CD last night.

    There's no way Memphis could stop Harrison with the players they had available last night. None whatsoever. We really dodged a bullet there.

    To the other question, George Irvine could possibly be the worst coach in NBA history. He even made Dick Versace look only somewhat incompetent.

    Back to Rick (sorry for rambling all over the place here)

    I really thought Rick would do a better job than he has this season; maybe I'm harsher on him than many of the rest of you because I feel his stubbornness is exactly the wrong thing right now and last season I was so quick to point out that when he wasn't as stubborn as previously advertised (such as the whole Tinsley incident that he learned from). This season, he doesn't seem to be showing signs of learning from his mistakes, he seems determined to prove that he's been right all along and I suppose if he doesn't completely discourage this team along the way, its possible that he's really been right all along. But I'm not holding my breath.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #12

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Side note off topic... I'm gonna have to turn off the avatars, which I don't wanna do.. unless Suave removes his naked Rodman pic... It's just a bad pic at the work place.

    Whats up with that? you into big naked men and proud or something? Whatever floats yer boat..

  13. #13
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    My only problem with Carlysle is this:

    In a season where you know you are going to have a revolving door at nearly every position, he seems to want to reinvent the wheel with every lineup. No way that's good. The player movement and passing is suspect for me this season because I think it shouldn't change drastically when someone gets subbed out. It's a big challenge, and I think RC should be a little more up to this task.

    I'll elaborate:

    The players often don't seem to know what they are supposed to do when they have certain combos on the floor, and that's a fault -at least in part -of the coaching and preparation. Yes, yes, yes - I know that the schemes should adjust for the varying types of talent you have on the floor, I just don't think you have to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to getting the rebounds and playing solid D and movement-based O.

    I just think that grass-roots, back to basics basketball would win us a few more games considering the crazy linup situations we've been in.

    But the real question is this: Who could have possibly done a better job?

    Honestly, I don't really know.

  14. #14
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I don't have much time right now... and I'm not sure I'd do anything but say what Jay's post said anyway.

    I'll stew on it and try and try and put my thoughts into words to dovetail with what Jay said and maybe explore some different angles in a little while. I don't want to short-change the subject because I feel it is not only important but multi-faceted. No time for that right now though.

    -Bball
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  15. #15
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I'm slammed at work for the next few days but I find this thread very interesting so please keep it going and I'll check in (and spout off) when I can...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  16. #16
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Generally speaking, I think Rick is a great coach.

    My problem right now is I'm just not a fan of always playing to the other team. I'd prefer to use what we have to make them adjust to us. David Harrison is a good example. Instead of playing him (and to a lesser extent, Pollard) only when we face a team with a big center, we should be playing them ALL THE TIME. Dwarf the other team, take advantage of the size. Memphis would have had no answer for him down low. None.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I haven't watched a lot of recent Pacer games but I've been disappointed quite a bit that the players don't seem nearly as committed to ball movement on offense and to defense - particularly rotations - as they were last year. I guess I could chalk that up to Artest but last year he missed several games and the Pacers, while they weren't the team they were with him in, did pretty well IIRC - and they certainly played the same style - just not as effectively.

    I do think that his philosophy is one that wins in the NBA - and wins once the playoffs start. But I don't see the players executing it like they should - and I don't see where the loss of just one player should do that. Losing Tinsley hasn't helped either.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  18. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Rim, I think you are just trying to get Rick fired so he can coach the Knicks.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I have no problem with Rick. Yet.

    The thing is, it is hard to judge a coach given the circumstance of what happened this year. We don't have anything to compare it to, since no other coach has had this problem. So we can't say what he does is right or wrong. What we do know is that last year he coached possibly the best team in team history. He had to have been doing something right.

    Yes, right now things are not looking good. People are injured constantly, we never have a consistant lineup. And, even though no one wants to say it, you have to believe that the brawl is still stuck in their heads. This team is mentally drained, physically drained, and it is hard to keep a team to play at its best level like that. That is why you cannot judge a coach given the situation. I think Rick is doing his best to keep this team playing, and hopefully, hopefully we get fully healed over break.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I think in general Rick is a very good coach....

    As UB said... I don't agree with every decision he makes, I think he's sometimes slow or stubborn to make in-game adjustments. He's got a gameplan... he isn't trying to fool anybody...and while I understand that JO is the biggest advantage we generally have game in and game-out... I would like to see us use some different looks occassionaly. It just feels like we make things more difficult than they need to be.


    I have a problem with the way our team plays with a lead, late in games... we lose all aggressiveness which allows the other team to claw back into it. We play not to lose, rather than going for the kill. If there wasn't a shot clock I swear Rick would try and stall for the last 5 minutes of the game. That drives me absolutely nuts.... notice all the close games... this season... even last season for that matter.

  21. #21

    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Burtrem Redneck
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    Side note off topic... I'm gonna have to turn off the avatars, which I don't wanna do.. unless Suave removes his naked Rodman pic... It's just a bad pic at the work place.

    Whats up with that? you into big naked men and proud or something? Whatever floats yer boat..
    All you have to do is TELL me, and I will....
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  22. #22
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I sarcastically told Dad during the last two minutes of fourth quarter last night that our best play might be to hold the ball until there's a shot clock violation. That way, there's no chance of an intercepted pass or long rebound that could lead to an easy basket.

    I felt good about our team defense yesterday. Of course it helped that Memphis, minus Gasol and Williams, isn't very good either. And I didn't feel good about our team offense yesterday or Friday, especially since JVG and The Czar have shown the entire world what triple-teaming JO can do (interestingly, the same strategy SVG used last May.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. #23
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I've expounded on Rick at lengths over the last year and a half, so I don't see much point in writing a big long thing. To sum up, I think Rick is excellent at x's and o's, not as bad as people think player relations-wise, but terribly conservative in mindset, strategy and execution. It doesn't help matters that when he does decide to change things up, I usually disagree with his actions. For instance, playing Fred at point late in the 4th the last few games.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  24. #24
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    I think Rick is one of the best in the business, and knows a lot more about the game and the team then I do, that said;

    I fear Rick is not overly charmed of playing the less known.

    I know JJ is not "starting" caliber BUT.....

    Jax was signed for the second unit. 6th or 7th man, replacing Reggie of the bench, JJ jas shown he has defensive skills and can shoot the ball as SF, little experience? yes, but not out of position.
    Jax at SF is playing out of position, no matter what anybody says, JAX and JO is nowhere near Ron and JO on the floor and it hurts the team at the moment.
    With JJ at SF starting and Jax replacing Reggie of the bench, I have a feeling that we would be more stable in both units. Jax and Fred works, as does the unit with JJ starting (we won the games where he started next to JO) yes because JJ is almost a rook, just like Hulk, Rick is to say the least hesitant in playing them, unless he has no other option. That in my mind is something he should work on.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  25. #25
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: The official Carlisle thread.....

    Haven't read this thread.

    I think Rick's a great coach that hasn't had a lot to work with. He does, though, attempt to play the hand he's dealt, which makes the makeup of the team important.

    Artest's vacation aside, I don't like the way this team's put together. Fixing that will let Carlisle succeed with his on-the-court coaching (which is as good as anyone).

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